Trance E+ 3 randomly provides no assist while climbing hills

[Atebit]

I have a Trance E+ 3 that I purchased new in July 24 (so not sure if it’s a ‘23 or ‘24). When I was bike shopping, I was told that Giant uses “six sensors” to determine when and how much assist to deliver, subject of course to the assist mode the bike is in.

As discussed in other threads, I find Auto mode to generally be useless and stay out of it. But, even in the non-Auto modes, I can’t seem to fathom how this bike determines when and how much assist to deliver. My impression during riding is that it’s happy to assist me on the flat, where I usually don’t want it, but it will often provide little assist when ascending a steep grade.

In my mind, assuming that a torque sensor is included in that array of “six sensors”, sensing me exerting a period of high torque should cause the assist to kick in. An increase in both rider-applied torque and cadence should also trigger more assist. But randomly, neither seem to happen and and I’m left really struggling to get up that hill. When this happens, shifting into the larger chainrings doesn’t cajole the motor into providing more assist, either.

Note that this isn’t the same “system cuts out” issue from other threads. My bike has the RideControl Dash display, and that stays on the whole time I’m experiencing this issue, so I don’t think that it’s physically something loose/wet/etc. After finally getting up the hill, the motor’s happy to provide assist again on the flat. . Either I’m not providing the right inputs to the system to result in assist, or the assist algorithms the motor controller’s using in the non-auto modes are wonky.

 

[jeanmarc]

The Giant (Yamaha) motor will provide assistance even at low cadence on the flat using any assist level, but it needs a good rhythm when going uphill. Have you tried +/- 80 RPM when climbing?

 

[Atebit]

My Edge is set up to show 10s power on hill climbs. I change change to cadence & monitor.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Each level of assist (of 5) will only provide "X" amount of assist.
So for example in level 1 it is only going to add 50% of your effort or so. Can't remember the exact amounts for each level.
Level 2 will provide 100%, level 3 at 175% etc.
You can see what these levels are exactly in the Giant app, and adjust them to a degree.
So, you cannot expect to be in level 1 or 2 on flats/minor inclines and have the motor assist you more and more as the incline increases. It's up to you to switch to 3, 4, or 5 manually to get the correct amount of assist for the situation.
Auto mode incorporates the sensor that sees "incline" along with torque etc. and then automatically chooses the assist level on the fly. No other level/mode does that.
I don't use auto either, not a fan, so I am switching the assist levels manually all the time.

 

[Atebit]

Each level of assist (of 5) will only provide "X" amount of assist.
So for example in level 1 it is only going to add 50% of your effort or so. Can't remember the exact amounts for each level.
Level 2 will provide 100%, level 3 at 175% etc.
You can see what these levels are exactly in the Giant app, and adjust them to a degree.
So, you cannot expect to be in level 1 or 2 on flats/minor inclines and have the motor assist you more and more as the incline increases. It's up to you to switch to 3, 4, or 5 manually to get the correct amount of assist for the situation.
Auto mode incorporates the sensor that sees "incline" along with torque etc. and then automatically chooses the assist level on the fly. No other level/mode does that.
I don't use auto either, not a fan, so I am switching the assist levels manually all the time.

Understood. But even in say level 4 or five, sometimes there’s just nothing there even though I’m pedaling hard. But as soon as the hills done , the motor’s ready to “help out” again. I guess it’s just me.

Ideally, Auto is what I want but as we know so it’s not very tunable…

 

[DaveMatthews]

Understood. But even in say level 4 or five, sometimes there’s just nothing there even though I’m pedaling hard. But as soon as the hills done , the motor’s ready to “help out” again. I guess it’s just me.

Ideally, Auto is what I want but as we know so it’s not very tunable…

Ah, OK. Sounds like you may need to increase your cadence as @jeanmarc alluded to above perhaps.
Same thing happens on my Stance if my gearing is wrong.

 

[Jay Vee]

I have a Trance E+ 3 that I purchased new in July 24 (so not sure if it’s a ‘23 or ‘24). When I was bike shopping, I was told that Giant uses “six sensors” to determine when and how much assist to deliver, subject of course to the assist mode the bike is in.

As discussed in other threads, I find Auto mode to generally be useless and stay out of it. But, even in the non-Auto modes, I can’t seem to fathom how this bike determines when and how much assist to deliver. My impression during riding is that it’s happy to assist me on the flat, where I usually don’t want it, but it will often provide little assist when ascending a steep grade.

In my mind, assuming that a torque sensor is included in that array of “six sensors”, sensing me exerting a period of high torque should cause the assist to kick in. An increase in both rider-applied torque and cadence should also trigger more assist. But randomly, neither seem to happen and and I’m left really struggling to get up that hill. When this happens, shifting into the larger chainrings doesn’t cajole the motor into providing more assist, either.

Note that this isn’t the same “system cuts out” issue from other threads. My bike has the RideControl Dash display, and that stays on the whole time I’m experiencing this issue, so I don’t think that it’s physically something loose/wet/etc. After finally getting up the hill, the motor’s happy to provide assist again on the flat. . Either I’m not providing the right inputs to the system to result in assist, or the assist algorithms the motor controller’s using in the non-auto modes are wonky.i

 

[Jay Vee]

I ride a LIV E+2 by Giant and I believe I read somewhere or maybe it was mentioned by a Giant rep that the sensors only are active when in the Smart Assist (S/A) mode. I've put 4,300 miles on it in a year and a half and it does feel that way to me. The sensors are sometimes a little wanky as there are times I'm in S/A mode and come upon a rise and there is no additional assist and other times I can "feel" the help. I am in my mid 70's and mostly ride generally level streets and trails and mostly use S/A; and go into level 4 & 5 when needed. I seldom use level 1 & 2 as they don't help me much with the +/- 65 lb weight of the bike.

 

[Jay Vee]

I ride a LIV E+2 by Giant and I believe I read somewhere or maybe it was mentioned by a Giant rep that the sensors only are active when in the Smart Assist (S/A) mode. I've put 4,300 miles on it in a year and a half and it does feel that way to me. The sensors are sometimes a little wanky as there are times I'm in S/A mode and come upon a rise and there is no additional assist and other times I can "feel" the help. I am in my mid 70's and mostly ride generally level streets and trails and mostly use S/A; and go into level 4 & 5 when needed. I seldom use level 1 & 2 as they don't help me much with the +/- 65 lb weight of the bike.

Whoops - my ride is a LIV Amiti E+2

 

[DaveMatthews]

I ride a LIV E+2 by Giant and I believe I read somewhere or maybe it was mentioned by a Giant rep that the sensors only are active when in the Smart Assist (S/A) mode. I've put 4,300 miles on it in a year and a half and it does feel that way to me. The sensors are sometimes a little wanky as there are times I'm in S/A mode and come upon a rise and there is no additional assist and other times I can "feel" the help. I am in my mid 70's and mostly ride generally level streets and trails and mostly use S/A; and go into level 4 & 5 when needed. I seldom use level 1 & 2 as they don't help me much with the +/- 65 lb weight of the bike.

I found the auto mode to be a battery hog, and kind of "Surge-ish" feeling, ie less natural feeling.
I went into the app and maxed out levels 1, 2, and 3. Like you I never found a use for level 1, but now it's all I need on flats and minor inclines, level 2 can easily handle larger inclines, and 3 is good for many others (or just feeling tired).
Result is MUCH better mileage out of the battery.
I'm on a Stance E+2, which is same motor as yours...

 

[CraigR]

I have both a Stance (65n) and Trance (85n) and they both work similarly. I take you are also shifting into the larger gears as you go up the hill? This will help keep your cadence up. One sure fire way to know if the motor is assisting you or not is to change the level from 5 down to 4 down to 3, etc... as you are going up the hill. If you notice a definite decline in assist (it gets harder to peddle as you go down in assist levels) it is working. If you don't notice any difference in assist, then you have an issue and need to bring the bike into the LBS. Keep in mind these are Class 1 EMTB's. They only assist as much as you peddle. That is the assist is a percentage of how hard you peddle. Going up a steep hill is still a lot of work. You need to put in as much effort as the bike is putting in .

 

[Atebit]

I have both a Stance (65n) and Trance (85n) and they both work similarly. I take you are also shifting into the larger gears as you go up the hill? This will help keep your cadence up. One sure fire way to know if the motor is assisting you or not is to change the level from 5 down to 4 down to 3, etc... as you are going up the hill. If you notice a definite decline in assist (it gets harder to peddle as you go down in assist levels) it is working. If you don't notice any difference in assist, then you have an issue and need to bring the bike into the LBS. Keep in mind these are Class 1 EMTB's. They only assist as much as you peddle. That is the assist is a percentage of how hard you peddle. Going up a steep hill is still a lot of work. You need to put in as much effort as the bike is putting in .

I will try this. But it seems to me that the amount of torque I’m exerting should be just as important (maybe more important) than the cadence to the motor controller when determining my effort & assist percentage.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I will try this. But it seems to me that the amount of torque I’m exerting should be just as important (maybe more important) than the cadence to the motor controller when determining my effort & assist percentage.

Definitely need to keep that cadence up, which means switching gears. It's absolutely normal.

 

[jeanmarc]

Definitely need to keep that cadence up, which means switching gears. It's absolutely normal.

Yep, cadence is the key, no matter which motor you have... All class 1 e-bikes need a good cadence to produce power & torque