Fuel EXe Tq motor broken

[Mteam]

Hi all,wondering if anyone else has had this problem, I'm guessing it means I need a new motor,but thought I'd put it out there anyway.

The bike turns on fine,no errors etc,but when you turn the pedals there is no resistance at all,they just spin without turning the chain ring,it's as if the clutch mechanism that engages or disengages to motor is stuck in a disengaged state.

The last time I rode it it was all fine with no issues, then I put it away in the garage,came back to it today a few days later and I have this problem.

Anyone got any ideas how I can sort it? Have tried engaging walk mode which works fine and propels the bike forward but doesn't engage the clutch, have tried bouncing the bike just in case it's mechanically stuck,but no joy.

Think I'm going to have to go back to the dealer with this one.

 

[Mteam]

See video here

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

That'll teach me to say that the motor appeared to be quite reliable with no internet reports of motor failure - doh!

@Roman any ideas?

 

[rocky yeung]

The one-way clutch bearing should be the problem that causes the shaft not engaging the chain ring sleeve.

Picture is captured from the video.

TQ HPR50 Grinding Noise

OK, I''ve just now figured the factors that produce the grind sound, for me. Any time, and for me every time, the pedal rate and force i apply on the crank fall below what's needed to activate the motor, the grind sound occurs. For example this will occur while riding on a level surface in a...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Mteam]

Yep.

Oh well off the the dealers with it this week,as long as it gets sorted quickly I'll be happy enough.

This bike was new in October and has done 300 miles. I'm in the UK.

My other ebike has a Bosch gen 4 motor, the first motor in that bike failed at 500miles,but it's replacement has been going fine for 2000 miles since.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Have you tried the basics (grasping at straws) - like battery out .. and pressing X/Y/Z for 20 seconds to reset things ?

Pushing the bike backwards ?

Check the speed sensor (grasping at pins...)

 

[Mteam]

Have you tried the basics (grasping at straws) - like battery out .. and pressing X/Y/Z for 20 seconds to reset things ?

Pushing the bike backwards ?

Check the speed sensor (grasping at pins...)

Yep, tried all the usual basics,it feels to me like the one way clutch mechanism has failed, the cranks just spin in either direction with no resistance at all.

The motor itself works if you engage walk mode, so it just looks like the cranks/the crank axle have become mechanically disconnected from the rest of the motor.

When you spin the cranks ,the motor registers a cadence,so all the electronics look fine,just looks like a mechanical failure.

 

[Swingset]

Curious to see if there is a water/dirt intrusion that is jamming the clutch. It would not take much to foul the mechanism.

 

[ebikerider]

Supposedly there are heat issues with these motors that are starting to come to light (source is a emtb motor repairer). I've seen several TQ motor failures now, not sure if related to heat but hopefully they get on top of it quickly.

 

[Mteam]

Supposedly there are heat issues with these motors that are starting to come to light (source is a emtb motor repairer). I've seen several TQ motor failures now, not sure if related to heat but hopefully they get on top of it quickly.

I'd be surprised if it was heat related,it's been bloody freezing here for a while now.

Can you elaborate on the heat issues you've heard about? I wonder how these hpr 50 motors are finding their way to independent repairers given that they're all under warranty still.

 

[rocky yeung]

By looking at parts in video, I recon the design of that one way clutch uses two springs to rotate the rollers cage back to normal contact position. It may not have sufficient tension to do the job if there is little jam.
Secondly, I also suspect your weather might freeze the grease there such that there is drag to stop the roller wedging back. You might try to warm the motor with hot hair blower to see if it works when the lubs are in normal working temperature. Warm the shaft, housing, it may take sometime to let heat getting thru.

 

[Mteam]

You might try to warm the motor with hot hair blower to see if it works when the lubs are in normal working temperature. Warm the shaft, housing, it may take sometime to let heat getting thru.

I did try warming the motor, no success

 

[Mitch@Trek]

See video here

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

That'll teach me to say that the motor appeared to be quite reliable with no internet reports of motor failure - doh!

@Roman any ideas?

That's a first for us!

Not sure what information Roman has, but I would advise bringing this to your local retailer so they can have a claim submitted for both engineering teams at TQ and Trek can dive into this data formally.

 

[Mteam]

That's a first for us!

Not sure what information Roman has, but I would advise bringing this to your local retailer so they can have a claim submitted for both engineering teams at TQ and Trek can dive into this data formally.

Thanks Mitch, I'm just waiting for my local dealer to come back to me when they open tomorrow (they're closed Mondays).

It's an interesting mode of failure for sure...

 

[Mteam]

Just had a chat with the local dealer, I'm going to take it in to them on Saturday - I cant get there before then.

As per @Mitch@Trek - they say this is the first fuel exe failure they have heard of.

 

[mitea]

Just had a chat with the local dealer, I'm going to take it in to them on Saturday - I cant get there before then.

As per @Mitch@Trek - they say this is the first fuel exe failure they have heard of.

Congrats for the 1st place just joking. Hope you will get it fixed soon.

Isn't the grinding noise also clutch related. So maybe there is a mechanical design issue there devs need to analyze and redesign for revision 2.

 

[Mteam]

Congrats for the 1st place just joking. Hope you will get it fixed soon.

Isn't the grinding noise also clutch related. So maybe there is a mechanical design issue there devs need to analyze and redesign for revision 2.

I'm happy to act as some kind of stress tester for any ebike manufacturers that want to test whether their ebikes can survive a UK winter.

 

[mitea]

I'm happy to act as some kind of stress tester for any ebike manufacturers that want to test whether their ebikes can survive a UK winter.

Checked the manual. According to the manual operating temperature is from -5°C to 40°C. You better don't write here how cold it was when you rode the bike.

Can imagine that because of the tight tolerances of the HPR Gear this motor could be more senstitive to temperature than others.

 

[Mteam]

Checked the manual. According to the manual operating temperature is from -5°C to 40°C. You better don't write here how cold it was when you rode the bike.

Can imagine that because of the tight tolerances of the HPR Gear this motor could be more senstitive to temperature than others.

I've ridden it down to temperatures of -2c. The odd thing about the way this failed is that I'd completed a ride (very wet ride) of about 15 miles, not too cold,prob 5c ,without incident, just a totally uneventful ride, came home,put the bike in the garage, came back to it a week later and the cranks would just spin in either direction with no resistance.

It's in the bike shop now, and being sent off to trek/tq on Monday for some investigations as this is the first failure.

 

[Mteam]

If this really is the first failure of the motor then I suspect TQ have built a pretty reliable motor.

 

[mitea]

If this really is the first failure of the motor then I suspect TQ have built a pretty reliable motor.

Indeed. However that the problem seems clutch related and that it got very quiet from the TQ side about the grinding noise issue which seems also clutch related worries me a bit that there could be a design issue.

 

[ebikerider]

If this really is the first failure of the motor then I suspect TQ have built a pretty reliable motor.

Multiple failures in Aus.

 

[mitea]

Multiple failures in Aus.

How many is multiple and what type of failures?

 

[mitea]

By looking at parts in video, I recon the design of that one way clutch uses two springs to rotate the rollers cage back to normal contact position. It may not have sufficient tension to do the job if there is little jam.
Secondly, I also suspect your weather might freeze the grease there such that there is drag to stop the roller wedging back. You might try to warm the motor with hot hair blower to see if it works when the lubs are in normal working temperature. Warm the shaft, housing, it may take sometime to let heat getting thru.

There really could be something about the temperature and greases.

Chatted with ChatGPT.... HPRs usually use two types of grease. Synthetic and Lithium-based. Synthetic is more stable to temperature regarding viscosity where as lithium based tends to get thicker with low temps.

Lithium based are typically pale yellow and you can clearly see in robs video from the factory that they are also using a yellowish grease. However its not 100% accurate to distinguish a grease just from its color but its likely that they used such a grease. If so then riding at low temps is probably not the best thing to do for the HPR-50.

 

[ebikerider]

How many is multiple and what type of failures?

I know of three and in all cases the motors became noisy and lost drive.

 

[Julie_X1]

I know of three and in all cases the motors became noisy and lost drive.

Did these bikes go back to dealers for warranty? Trek says it’s only aware of one bike, the OP’s

 

[ebikerider]

Did these bikes go back to dealers for warranty? Trek says it’s only aware of one bike, the OP’s

Serious question? Of course they went back for warranty. There are multiple other problematic motors on the forum too btw.
Could be the person that is labeled 'Trek' on the forum only has access to local info, could be other reasons...not like it is a good look admitting to motor problems. Look at Specialized lol.

 

[Emailsucks98]

the grinding noise issue

This issue is 100% repeatable when you do something that is arguably 100% user error.

 

[mitea]

This issue is 100% repeatable when you do something that is arguably 100% user error.

What exactly is the user error in this video

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

I just can't see any pedal movement that wouldn't happen when riding on trails.

 

[Emailsucks98]

What exactly is the user error in this video

I just can't see any pedal movement that wouldn't happen when riding on trails.

Was that the “grinding noise issue”?
Doesn’t sound like what I was referring to, which is the grinding noise we can get repeatedly when soft pedaling uphill just below the motors pick-up threshold. And is easily avoidable: pedal harder or use an easier gear.

I’m not claiming this motor (or any) is perfect or without occasional QC issues. But there’s a huge difference between a failure (Like Mteam has had) and “my bike is making a weird sound”. I do think the latter has gotten blown out of proportion here, especially given the quirks that are standard for Bosch & Shimano motors.

Your issue seems legitimate, like an outlier, and hopefully Trek/TQ took care of you.

 

[mitea]

But there’s a huge difference between a failure (Like Mteam has had) and “my bike is making a weird sound”

I agree. My point was just that both could (in worst case) be related to a clutch design issue.

Mteams motor seems to have a permanently disengaged or broken clutch and the grinding noise seems like to have a clutch that engage/disengage continuosly