Tips on removing a tyre please

[Zimmerframe]

I am a big believer in "measure twice , cut once" so I had checked and double checked, honest I really did!!

Just remember that this is the "Tops on removing a tyre" thread .. I know it's tempting at this point, but no matter how many times you migth want to measure it, I'd advise against cutting it.

You also should know that you're going about all this wrong. The reason you're struggling is that you're trying to remove the tyre from the wheel. It's far easier if you remove the wheel from the tyre.......

 

[B1rdie]

I know how this feels.
Had to retape the rear dtswiss rim and there was always a leak at the valve, and to stop that I use to tap the tyre sideways at the ground, but these hubs have the internals loose so that the cassete and a few dented inernal gears and coils get tossed on the ground very easily.
Guess how many times I had to reach for tiny hub internals on the garage floor the last two days...

 

[Wilko58]

I've just had this with WTB Verdict tyres on WTB rims and made worse with inserts. Getting the original bead to break wasn't as bad as yours. The WTB rims are a bit like the diagram above but there is a small lip on the shoulder and the bead has to go over that to get to the rim wall and that was the hardest thing to do and I ended up putting a tube in to seat the beads, the starting the tubeless set up again.
I note that you took the tyre off on one side to put the sealant in, I find it a lot easier (although slower) to use a syringe or better still Stan's Sealant syringe and put the sealant in through the the valve?

 

[Gary]

remove tyre, re-fit properly.

it's a 5min job at most

 

[Jackware]

remove tyre, re-fit properly.

it's a 5min job at most

But another 30 mins to post about it on here.

 

[Wilko58]

remove tyre, re-fit properly.

it's a 5min job at most

It took me longer than that to unseat the bead! I think I need to practice ?

 

[Gary]

Yes. I'd agree

 

[Zimmerframe]

It took me longer than that to unseat the bead!

It takes many of us longer than that to just unseat ...

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Apart from the memory losses, it's good to have a tubeless tyre fitting actually go well for a change.

This comment didn’t age so well ?

Hope you managed to sort it all out. If anything my OCD would want the tyre on the correct way even if the performance impact was negligible

 

[Zimmerframe]

This comment didn’t age so well ?

Maybe @steve_sordy has accidentally discovered a solution to difficult to fit tyres ... put it on backwards first !

 

[steve_sordy]

I've just had this with WTB Verdict tyres on WTB rims and made worse with inserts. Getting the original bead to break wasn't as bad as yours. The WTB rims are a bit like the diagram above but there is a small lip on the shoulder and the bead has to go over that to get to the rim wall and that was the hardest thing to do and I ended up putting a tube in to seat the beads, the starting the tubeless set up again.
I note that you took the tyre off on one side to put the sealant in, I find it a lot easier (although slower) to use a syringe or better still Stan's Sealant syringe and put the sealant in through the the valve?

Once I had got rid of the thick Gorilla tape and used a proper designed for the job rim tape, the WTB Vigilante tyre went on and off quite easily.

Ref inserting sealant: I don't take the whole side off, just use a coupe of tyre levers to prop open 4"-5", just enough to pour in the sealant.
It has always puzzled me when I read about folk inserting sealant via the valve hole (core removed). My valves are Presta and the sealant goes in just fine, but only as long as I don't shake the sealant bottle very vigorously first. Once the blob of particles that has settled out at the bottom of the bottle and usually congealed has been disturbed and thoroughly distributed, there is no way it will flow down the valve hole. It just blocks! Of course it does, that is what it is supposed to do. Why use sealant without ensuring the particles go in? Sort of defeats the object.
Read the tests that the bike magazines conduct; they pierce the tyres with screwdrivers of steadily increasing sizes, frequently getting beyond a 6mm dia shaft, and they still seal. So a 3mm valve hole should be easy to block.

So Stans have a sealant syringe? Does it really work on Presta valves? If so, I must get one. But how does it work, is it high pressure? But high pressure works better to seal tyres, so the valve... going round in circles here.

 

[steve_sordy]

remove tyre, re-fit properly.

it's a 5min job at most

I would agree normally, although maybe a little longer than 5 mins for me. But this tyre and crap rim tape problem was a whole different order

 

[Wilko58]

Once I had got rid of the thick Gorilla tape and used a proper designed for the job rim tape, the WTB Vigilante tyre went on and off quite easily.

Ref inserting sealant: I don't take the whole side off, just use a coupe of tyre levers to prop open 4"-5", just enough to pour in the sealant.
It has always puzzled me when I read about folk inserting sealant via the valve hole (core removed). My valves are Presta and the sealant goes in just fine, but only as long as I don't shake the sealant bottle very vigorously first. Once the blob of particles that has settled out at the bottom of the bottle and usually congealed has been disturbed and thoroughly distributed, there is no way it will flow down the valve hole. It just blocks! Of course it does, that is what it is supposed to do. Why use sealant without ensuring the particles go in? Sort of defeats the object.
Read the tests that the bike magazines conduct; they pierce the tyres with screwdrivers of steadily increasing sizes, frequently getting beyond a 6mm dia shaft, and they still seal. So a 3mm valve hole should be easy to block.

So Stans have a sealant syringe? Does it really work on Presta valves? If so, I must get one. But how does it work, is it high pressure? But high pressure works better to seal tyres, so the valve... going round in circles here.

Steve, the initial sealant I used was Tyre Youghurt which dies have fibres in it but they still went in through the syringe. However, that sealant would not seal the bead to rim and it just leaked out leaving a small puddle overnight. I cleaned all that up and started again using Stan's which doesn't have any fibres in it and holds 60ml per syringe and has a silicone tube with a screw on valve which fits both valve types. The only reason I didn't use your method is because I had visions of losing it all given that the bead had to be in the centre of the tyre for me to get it anywhere near putting the last few inches over the edge of the rim (if the tyre was already seated I couldn't even get a tyre lever under the bead). I also bought a Stan"s tyre repair tool which I hadn't seen before and is advertised as being able to fix large holes (up to 6mm I think it said).

 

[Wilko58]

So Stans have a sealant syringe? Does it really work on Presta valves? If so, I must get one. But how does it work, is it high pressure? But high pressure works better to seal tyres, so the valve... going round in circles here.

The syringe is just a large standard syringe and simply squirts the sealant in to a flat tyre with valve core removed so no pressure needed. Once the sealant is in the put the valve core back in and inflate.

 

[steve_sordy]

Steve, the initial sealant I used was Tyre Youghurt which dies have fibres in it but they still went in through the syringe. However, that sealant would not seal the bead to rim and it just leaked out leaving a small puddle overnight. I cleaned all that up and started again using Stan's which doesn't have any fibres in it and holds 60ml per syringe and has a silicone tube with a screw on valve which fits both valve types. The only reason I didn't use your method is because I had visions of losing it all given that the bead had to be in the centre of the tyre for me to get it anywhere near putting the last few inches over the edge of the rim (if the tyre was already seated I couldn't even get a tyre lever under the bead). I also bought a Stan"s tyre repair tool which I hadn't seen before and is advertised as being able to fix large holes (up to 6mm I think it said).

The shock news for me is that Stans doesn't have fibres in it!! I have never used Stans. But I have used other latex sealants and they all did. Right now I'm using Continental Revo sealant. I bought a load of it when I had Conti tyres and it also works just fine on Maxxis tyres. Saw no reason not to use it on WTB tyres. No fibres? Hmm how does it work then?

 

[Wilko58]

The shock news for me is that Stans doesn't have fibres in it!! I have never used Stans. But I have used other latex sealants and they all did. Right now I'm using Continental Revo sealant. I bought a load of it when I had Conti tyres and it also works just fine on Maxxis tyres. Saw no reason not to use it on WTB tyres. No fibres? Hmm how does it work then?

I'm sure it doesn't have fibres in (it has the consistency of milk) and is latex based and seals by drying on contact with air. I've heard of people adding things like glitter and pepper to help it block holes but I'm sure they would have added something if they thought it needed it. There are so many on the market now its hard to choose but sounds like you found one you like and works.

 

[Jackware]

The mini bottle's top fits the presta valve body fine, and I use 2 per wheel, just have to squeeze it to empty it.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Jackware That is what my bottles of Conti Revo sealant look like! They have the same plastic nozzle that fits perfectly into the valve hole. But there is no way the sealant will go in, it just blocks.
If you look inside the bottle of Stans, is there some gunk at the bottom?

 

[Gary]

No fibres? Hmm how does it work then?

Seriously?
The liquid latex becomes a solid through air pressure forcing it through small holes. Fibres are only required to block larger holes allowing the sealant to seal between them.
I'm sure we've been through this lesson already. Or did the dog eat your homework again? ?

 

[Wilko58]

@Jackware That is what my bottles of Conti Revo sealant look like! They have the same plastic nozzle that fits perfectly into the valve hole. But there is no way the sealant will go in, it just blocks.
If you look inside the bottle of Stans, is there some gunk at the bottom?

I've just read the Stan's bottle and it contains "micro crystals" which is why it just looks like milk! The tool I mentioned had a fabric seal a bit like a mop head but impregnated with something that the Stan's reacts with and creates a solid clump.

 

[steve_sordy]

Seriously?
The liquid latex becomes a solid through air pressure forcing it through small holes. Fibres are only required to block larger holes allowing the sealant to seal between them.
I'm sure we've been through this lesson already. Or did the dog eat your homework again? ?

Yes seriously.
I have been tubeless with sealant for more than ten years and the topic never came up.
I have always "known" that Stans had particles in it. How else could it block holes? All the other latex sealants I had used had particles in them, why would Stans be any different? I hadn't read anywhere before today that Stans didn't have particles, and it had never come up in conversation.

I even read about the Stans big puncture tool with the mini mop head that say the latex reacted with it. It worked fine on my Conti Revo sealant that is a latex based sealant with bits in it. It sealed the big hole that the sealant alone hadn't plugged.

How else am I supposed to know that Stans doesn't have bits in it? Osmosis?

 

[Wilko58]

Yes seriously.
I have been tubeless with sealant for more than ten years and the topic never came up.

As above, I was kind of wrong about Stan's as it doesn't have fibres in it but does have micro crystals. I don't know how large the fibres are in the Continental stuff you use but in the Tyre Yoghurt it had the texture of paper dissolving in liquid if you know what I mean and was quite thin as it could be sucked up in a relatively small syringe.

 

[Gary]

How else am I supposed to know that Stans doesn't have bits in it? Osmosis?

Using the definition of "Osmosis" as absorbtion, Yes.
We've had a conversation here previously where I explained "how" it seals/hardens. And when I explained it back then I didn't mention "bits" at all. You obviously didn't absorb the information in the way I'd assumed you would

Contrary to popular belief Stan wasn't the inventor of latex based tyre sealant. He simply refined his recipe and started selling it to the masses.
plenty folk were making their own DIY tyre sealants from a mix of art latex, water and a couple of other ingredients before Stans was a product. like 20+ years back in the late 90s

 

[steve_sordy]

As above, I was kind of wrong about Stan's as it doesn't have fibres in it but does have micro crystals. I don't know how large the fibres are in the Continental stuff you use but in the Tyre Yoghurt it had the texture of paper dissolving in liquid if you know what I mean and was quite thin as it could be sucked up in a relatively small syringe.

Without going back into the garage for a look, the fibres are about twice the size of a comma (,), but not as big as an underscore (_). The sealant certainly feels gritty, so they are not soft particles. I sure as hell would not want any in my eyes!

The Slime I used to use was like Swarfega with cotton wool mixed in with it! That wouldn't even go down a Schrader valve sized hole! It never went off, but it was crap at sealing sidewall porosity (which latex ones are good at).

 

[steve_sordy]

Using the definition of "Osmosis" as absorbtion, Yes.
We've had a conversation here previously where I explained "how" it seals/hardens. And when I explained it back then I didn't mention "bits" at all. You obviously didn't absorb the information in the way I'd assumed you would

Contrary to popular belief Stan wasn't the inventor of latex based tyre sealant. He simply refined his recipe and started selling it to the masses.
plenty folk were making their own DIY tyre sealants from a mix of art latex, water and a couple of other ingredients before Stans was a product. like 20+ years back in the late 90s

You may indeed have never mentioned "bits", but I had assumed they were there in the same way that you assumed your explanation was complete and that I would somehow know that there were no bits. I'm not blaming you of course (or me), it's just part of the common problem with communication between people, especially written.

I didn't have a bike that I took off road until 2005, and then it wasn't supposed to do so. I was getting a flat every 14 miles on average and went to the LBS to ask for some solid tyres. He sold me some Slime for my tubes and I've been a fan of sealant ever since. I had no idea of the history of sealants; thank you for that.
Here is another assumption: Most bikers have no idea of the history of sealants.

PS: Osmosis. I was going for the 2nd definition below.

1. A process by which molecules of a solvent tend to pass through a semipermeable membrane from a less concentrated solution into a more concentrated one.

2. The process of gradual or unconscious assimilation of ideas, knowledge, etc.

 

[Gary]

I messed about experimenting with tubeless in 1998/9 when I was too injured to ride. That was using Michelin Nagasti tubeless DH tyres and home made rim strips/sealant.
Once over the injury and riding hard again I found I had to run much HIGHER pressures in order not to roll the tyre or burp air so ditched tubeless for many years.
Nowadays it's (mainly) a pretty sorted and stress free process. But without an insert I reckon I'd still have to run higher pressures than I did back 20+ years back using DH tyres and MX tubes.

 

[urastus]

I messed about experimenting with tubeless in 1998/9 when I was too injured to ride. That was using Michelin Nagasti tubeless DH tyres and home made rim strips/sealant.
Once over the injury and riding hard again I found I had to run much HIGHER pressures in order not to roll the tyre or burp air so ditched tubeless for many years.
Nowadays it's (mainly) a pretty sorted and stress free process. But without an insert I reckon I'd still have to run higher pressures than I did back 20+ years back using DH tyres and MX tubes.

I had to run higher pressures too, once I removed the tubes. Much less damping.

 

[Binhill1]

I bought a 29x2.5 Vigilante TCS Light High Grip TT SG tyre because of the reviews and I was favourably impressed with the tyres that came with my grandson's bike.

I run my tyres tubeless and have done for many years on different wheel sizes, different tyre brands etc. But I could not get this WTB tyre to engage properly on the RaceFace AR30 (30mm internal rim). One quarter of the tyre on both sides, opposite each other just would not pop onto the rim. Only when I removed the tubeless valve and used an inner tube could I get the tyre installed and properly seated; and I had to take it up to 60psi to do it. But when I came to remove the tube, the tyre would not budge. I tried everything. My arthritic hands were not up to it on this occasion, not even with tyre levers. I laid the wheel flat on my Black& Decker Workmate and pressed a hammer shaft down onto the tyre, resting the hammer head into my armpit. I pushed as much of my weight onto it as I could, so much that I was concerned that I might tear the sidewall. Nothing! I have the bruise to show how hard I was pushing.

In the end I took the tyre to my LBS assuming that the fit owner with his strong hands experienced in all the tricks of tyre removal would have no trouble. He thought the same, but after a few minutes he asked me to leave it with him overnight. I ended up ringing him at noon the next day and he'd only just managed it. Eventually, he had used a vice to grip the tyre while using the wheel as a lever. He got one side off and removed the tube. That was all I had asked him to do because I was going to refit the tubeless valve and go from there. But when I got home I thought I'd play safe and remove the tyre completely and then remove the rim tape, clean up and fit new tape, but this time make sure it was clear of the rim wall. But I could not get the second side off. I even gripped the tyre in the jaws of my workmate and tried the same trick as the LBS. I really thought I might tear the tyre wall, or even bend the rim. I gave up and took it back with the LBS. He said that he'd do it while I wait, but his trick with the vice didn't work this time, so I've left it with him. Not sure what to do if he can't get it off!

Coincidentally, the retailer (BikeInn) that sold me the tyre just invited me to write a review, so I told a shortened version of the above. It will be interesting to see if they respond

Any tips on tyre removal?

I'm in process of fitting with WTB trail boss . I still use tubes so managed to puncture when putting on. I can't believe how tight some tires are my supposedly top notch levers just bend right over so used the steel ones .Last time i had tubless i got off gondola at Anoch mor tried to pump up tire a bit unknown to me pump goosed. Anyway the sealant had glued tire to rim had to get help to get tire off put tube in still no joy .Back down on gondola like a prick. Took tire in to hoose heat up hopefully get it on before dark.