This topic has gone waaaaaay off topic, please delete Rob, thanks

[jonathan horticulturist]

Please delete, thanks

 

[Gary]

look where you're going (actually where you want to go). keep your head UP and scan the track ahead. it's honestly that simple.

and ease off the power and soft pedal (spin) as you change gear. If it's a shimano motor you can actually hear when the torque falls away and when to click down/up

 

[Donnie797]

Definitely check out these two youtube channels (and their "how to" or "skills" playlists) as an endless source of exactly such advice:

GMBN - Global Mountain Bike Network
EMBN - Electric Mountain Bike Network

 

[paquo]

to shift the ebike i do two at a time- spin up, let off shift 2or 3 repeat.

 

[steve_sordy]

I am physically and mentally incapable of shifting under load. Too much mechanical sympathy to ever be a racer. But my kit lasts a long time.

 

[Krisj]

Keep relaxed body and mind
Most people over think riding , if your stiff and clinging on for dear life I guarantee you’ll come off. Relax look ahead like Gary said and look far enough to have plenty off brain time to process the trail ahead and how to navigate it. This way your not just seeing an obstacle milliseconds before having to navigating it which will end in tears for sure. And Don’t look in front off your bike in the stack zone ever ??
Build your speed slowly relax and have fun
Been riding 2 wheels for 40 years and I’m still learning
We all carry on learning new skillz every time I ride ??

 

[Dax]

Relax.

And don't try and ride any blacks until you've got the hang of staying on the trail.

 

[Gary]

@Ross Gardner I've only just put two and two together and realised this thread was started by you. Without coming across as rude are you really sure a 170mm (super)Enduro Ebike like the E-Sommet is going to be the correct choice for a rider at your level of riding? Not that it can't be ridden on less than gnarly terrain but it is massively overkill if that's all it's going to be used for, it's a ridiculously capable bike that's most at home on rough gnarly steep terrain and descending perfrmance wise can put a lot of top end Enduro bikes to shame.
What bike is it are you riding just now? and can you please try to explain what you mean by "twitchy"? I honestly don't think any manufacturer has had what I'd consider a twitchy handling bike in their line up in the last decade.

 

[ccrdave]

this is nice
SHOP

 

[jonathan horticulturist]

I intend to get better Gary, and push the bike to what it’s designed for. I’ve removed the diatribe about my own experiences, so this can remain on topic.

You can see what bikes I ride in my signature, Gary. I do reds and blues at the moment. I will do blacks in the new year.

 

[Gary]

I think you might have missed my point. No offence but there's not a UK trail centre red or black trail that can't be ridden fast on a basic 100mm hardtail. [edit] Both of your current bikes are more than capable of the task [/Edit] As Kris mentioned. Every ride teaches you something. Uprgrading to a long travel more DH orientated bike is not necessarily going to teach you as much as learning how to handle a less capable bike properly. I'd actually suggest holding off on the Vitus for a year or so and buying a decent regular hardtail to learn basic skills on. A lighter simpler bike is definitely better to learn weight placement and good basic technique on than a 170mm travel DH monster that will disguise all your poor technique.

You mentioning twitchy bikes is very much on topic. Unless you've set them up strangely neither of the bikes in your sig should be particularly twitchy. Would you not be interested in finding out why you feel those two bikes are twitchy? It may actually be nothing to do with the bikes.

[edit]What size is your Haibike? and what size is your levo? and which one do you feel is twitchier?
(I've just looked up the geometry of both)

 

[jonathan horticulturist]

I think you might have missed my point. No offence but there's not a UK trail centre red or black trail that can't be ridden fast on a basic 100mm hardtail.

Since I’ve tried full squish I can’t go back to hardtail.

As Kris mentioned. Every ride teaches you something. Uprgrading to a long travel more DH orientated bike is not necessarily going to teach you as much as learning how to handle a less capable bike properly. I'd actually suggest holding off on the Vitus for a year or so and buying a decent regular hardtail to learn basic skills on.

I want to ride an Ebike all the time. I have the bug. A less capable bike therefore would be a Voodoo Zobop Ebike. Guess what? They are 3k same as the Vitus.

A lighter simpler bike is definitely better to learn weight placement and good basic technique on than a 170mm travel DH monster that will disguise all your poor technique.

I think the principle of riding is to have as much fun as possible. Currently that means doing reds. I don’t want to do blacks at the moment. If I’m honest I struggle with confidence and since starting up riding again I am sheepish.

You mentioning twitchy bikes is very much on topic.

Different bike, on an acoustic. Long time ago. Was a medium, since then I have gone large.

Unless you've set them up strangely neither of the bikes in your sig should be particularly twitchy. Would you not be interested in finding out why you feel those two bikes are twitchy? It may actually be nothing to do with the bikes.

I don’t find my Ebikes twitchy.

 

[Gary]

Since I’ve tried full squish I can’t go back to hardtail.

Well that's complete nonsense but it is your choice. Hardtails are awesome and personally I'd never be without one but that's me. What I meant was in order to learn basic skills (Most of which simply involve learning to co-ordinate timing and weight shift while using upper body/hip strength) a 25lb lighter bike would help a lot more than buying a longer travel Ebike when you already have two. Simple stuff the motor doesn't help with like bunnyhop repetition will be massively more tiring for a beginner on a long travel 50lb bike.

I want to ride an Ebike all the time. I have the bug. A less capable bike therefore would be a Voodoo Zobop Ebike. Guess what? They are 3k same as the Vitus.

What on earth are you talking about? I didn't mean an E-Hardtail I meant a regular hardtail. £500 is enough for a decent beginner to intermediate hardtail for someone like yourself getting back into mtb.
£3k would get you a Canyon Neuron which sounds like a bike far more suited to your riding and skills level (£800 less RRP than the Vitus). But so is your levo.
Is your next bike purchase to replace the two you already have or compliment them?

I think the principle of riding is to have as much fun as possible. Currently that means doing reds. I don’t want to do blacks at the moment. If I’m honest I struggle with confidence and since starting up riding again I am sheepish.

And that's absolutely fair enough. Just realise though once you get away from the safety of nicely built graded trail centre routes naural riding can be a lot more challenging. Even some basic XC routes are above any trail centre black in difficulty in certain weather conditions. A slack 170mm travel bike won't help you with this unless you improve your basic handling skills (starting with the above tips I gave you)

Different bike, on an acoustic. Long time ago. Was a medium, since then I have gone large.

So massively irrelevant! You should probably stop worrying about twitchy bikes.
Talking of which. The reach on the small E-sommet is longer than both your current Large bikes. Not that I think it's the bike for you anymore. but if you are comfortable on the large Levo, you should also be comfortable on the small Vitus.

I don’t find my Ebikes twitchy.

As above. it's time to stop worrying about "twitchiness" which you still haven''t actually explained TBH

I get the feeling you'll ignore most of my advice and still go with what you're percieving to be a bargain... It is a ridiculously good bike BTW so you won't regret it. I just don't really see you puting it to the sort of use it's capable of anytime soon and think there are far mor suitable options out there for you.

 

[Krisj]

Totally agree with Gary.
The Main thing a hard tail teaches you is Basic bike handling Skillz ,
Back in the day when I was racing just at the beginning of full sus bikes coming out I was actually fasted on my GT zaskar with 100mm judys up front than I was on my giant atx 990 full sus.
Riding a hard tail will teach you how to use your legs and body position to act as your suspension and not rely on the bikes suspension. Also I’m 6.2 ft and I’ve always gone for smaller bikes than I should because I like to feel bike move around underneath me but that’s just personal opinion , but it might be worth thinking about while learning.
A full sus bike will mask your own abilities as it’s move forgiving towards the trails.
Like I said before just relax and enjoy and practice practice practice.
Try to ride with people who’s already got skillz as you can follow them and follow there lines and sure enough you will be progressing quick time.
You will know when you get it right because you will feel the flow of the trail you should feel at one with your bike. And never beat yourself up over a bad days ride we all have them where we’re not feeling it , I’m sure you’ve heard that saying shit loads
Just keep having fun dude ??

 

[Gary]

And never beat yourself up over a bad days ride we all have them where we’re not feeling it

More now than ever

Ps I also had an ATX 990 at one point. I stuck Judy DHOs on mine. Possibly the worst dual crown fork ever made. a whole 100mm of elastomer sprung goodness and a plastic damping cartridge that spat it's lid every bottom out. £1049 retail. Thank fuck mine were free.
Stuck speed springs and an afermarket cart in it and the bike was well ahead of it's time for razzing about on on non DH days. I eventually gave the ATX frame to an up and coming kid who'd been a (fearless and good) BMXer but wanted to get into mtb but didn't have the money. 2 weeks later he'd snapped it in half coming up short on a ridiculous sized double. We'd hired a digger to build a set of trails with but got carried away and spent the whole week building one take off and landing.

I was riding little unbranded kinesis (Taiwanese factory) alu XC hardtails bought for pennies through the shop I managed with 100mm forks back then and moved onto dirt jump frames when BSX and mtb DJ became a thing. I must've been riding little 100mm hardtails for over 25 years now. Still love them. Have and regularly ride a Dartmoor 4X and a giant STP. and probably still have an old 16" Alu GT hardtail (not far off a Zaskar) with 100m rockshox as well. Well.. I know it's in my Ex's shed. I gave it to her son to use for his paper round but he's grown up and left home now so considering how well he took care of it it's probably mine or landfill's.

 

[Krisj]

Pmsl Gary I bought the fire starter kit for my judys which turned them into dual crowns and up rated for coil springs and also I bought the long travel kit for the giant which took it from 4’ to a massive 6 inch of travel good old days ???

 

[Krisj]

More now than ever

Ps I also had an ATX 990 at one point. I stuck Judy DHOs on mine. Possibly the worst dual crown fork ever made. a whole 100mm of elastomer sprung goodness and a plastic damping cartridge that spat it's lid every bottom out. £1049 retail. Thank fuck mine were free.
Stuck speed springs and an afermarket cart in it and the bike was well ahead of it's time for razzing about on on non DH days. I eventually gave the ATX frame to an up and coming kid who'd been a (fearless and good) BMXer but wanted to get into mtb but didn't have the money. 2 weeks later he'd snapped it in half coming up short on a ridiculous sized double. We'd hired a digger to build a set of trails with but got carried away and spent the whole week building one take off and landing.

I was riding little unbranded kinesis (Taiwanese factory) alu XC hardtails bought for pennies through the shop I managed with 100mm forks back then and moved onto dirt jump frames when BSX and mtb DJ became a thing. I must've been riding little 100mm hardtails for over 25 years now. Still love them. Have and regularly ride a Dartmoor 4X and a giant STP. and probably still have an old 16" Alu GT hardtail (not far off a Zaskar) with 100m rockshox as well. Well.. I know it's in my Ex's shed. I gave it to her son to use for his paper round but he's grown up and left home now so considering how well he took care of it it's probably mine or landfill's.

??ex’s I left all my shit in my shed when I left for safe keeping “Well that’s what thought , she threw all my snowboard Gear, my mx kit ,my dj decks , Gt fueler with pitch forks on What I bought of Steve Pete which was custom made for him by GT the list goes on , mind you I did go to collect it nearly 2 years later ?which she replied you’d not missed any of it. ?
I miss my dirt jumper dmr ,dj2 and 24’halo combats loved that bike hmmmm might just keep my options open

 

[Dax]

Those judys were dangerous! The amount of flex was terrifying.

I remember swapping my coyote dh3 for a 120mm hard tail jump bike, was faster down my local dh trails and massively improved my riding. Then I threw on a pair of 66's and ruined/fixed the geometry for riding dh awesome fun thing, might put it back together one day.

 

[Gary]

Those judys were dangerous! The amount of flex was terrifying.

Judys were somehow actually strong as hell. I never broke the chassis on a single pair. Even casing a 52ft double and ovalising quite a few frames. (or maybe I was just lighter than I remember back then ). Pikes I bent multiple crowns, stanchions, steerers and snapped arches on.

I remember swapping my coyote dh3 for a 120mm hard tail jump bike, was faster down my local dh trails and massively improved my riding.

how did you have your DH3 set up that a hardtail was faster down an actual dh track than it? You didn't actually use that awful DNM shock they came with did you? Those frames were actually ridiculously good if you knew how to configure the frame to your preference (They had 150 different geometry/linkage/leverage configurations). and ran a good aftermarket shock.
I always wanted Gee to take his first WC win on the Muddyfox Descent (same frame) but him and Dan chose to ride stickered up M1s the last year they rode for Muddyfox/Animal. The fact every one of those frames were out of alignment would have just made it all the more sweet.

 

[Dax]

I think it was judy xlc triple clamps I was thinking of, mate had a pair on his GT LTS. I've been meaning to get a set of those judy graphics made up for the boxxers on my dh bike

The coyote was (is) running a romic twin tube, worked very effectively, I used a setup guide from southern downhill, it was a fun bike. The point was riding a hard tail forced me to stop relying on 8" of suspension and learn how to ride properly, plus it was a lot easier to throw around on the tight twisty trails in the south West. On a real dh trail, you're right, but back then we didn't know what proper dh was, until we went to inners.

 

[MattyB]

And the winner of most OT thread of the day goes to...

 

[Gary]

I used a setup guide from southern downhill,

I wrote it

 

[Gary]

The point was riding a hard tail forced me to stop relying on 8" of suspension and learn how to ride properly, plus it was a lot easier to throw around on the tight twisty trails in the south West. On a real dh trail, you're right, but back then we didn't know what proper dh was, until we went to inners.

Yeah i got the point about th hardtail making you smoother.
For a few seasons me and my DH racing mates all rode dirt jump hardtails all winter at inners (and raced them in the WWW (wet n wild winter) series and swapped back to the DH bikes before the racing season started again.
I lived in the SW for a few years'99-03. Was all set to pack the DH bike in then rode and raced all the SW tracks and found Wales rode with a bunch of builders from Triscombe... Good chance I'd have known you. or your face anyway. I usually stood out being the only Scot.
That and my striking good looks and awesome personality

 

[Gary]

And the winner of most OT thread of the day goes to...

You shoud see the E-sommet thread. it's like reading "The secret diary of Adrian mole aged 13¾"