The usual newbie "this or that bike" topic!

[LJHB]

Hi everybody,

Cheers from the flat lands of northern Germany, not widely known as mtb paradise ...

I am originaly from the the french Alps, where I rode a lot of "bio" mountain bike. I never enjoyed going up, even in my peak fitness days, it was always just a boring pre-requesite to going down.

So, when I tested an emtb this summer (in the french Alps), it was a revelation! I went for a 3 hours ride, and could not take the smile away from my face the whole time. Even going up. It was really a before/after type of moment!

So that´s the background.
I am now looking to get an emtb. There are literaly NO local trail that even go slightly up, in my area.
The closest hills are about 1 hour drive away and good hills about 2 hours. Which I am absolutly willing to do, I will not let this stop me enjoying myself!

The typical ride I would take, outside of going back to the Alps several times a year, would be mostly forest roads/single trails, with roots, stones, but nothing like Whistler! A bit of park, why not, to try somethign new. 40 to 50 Km (about 28 miles) with around 1000m elevation gain (3280 feet), +/- 20%, about 3 to 4 hours per.

So, to come to the actual topic: emtb choice.
I did my long list, now short list, mostly based on the fact that I want to buy from an official dealer, with shop/workshop where I live. I am not a full time mechanic and have medium interest in becoming one.

So, here we go:
Orbea Wild FS H20, size XL, with a few upgrades (XT brakes and 38 fox fork). about 6200€. I like many things about it:
- 160 mm travel front and back, so a bit more travel than a trail bike but also not quite a huge enduro bike either. Having had back problems, I am convincing myself that this is a good thing
- good value for money in terms of specs
- Bosch system
- Potential for extra 500 wh battery for my trips in the Alps, total 1125wh
- Dealer literaly around the corner
I dont quite like that the battery is "only" 625 Wh, which is on the small side for a 2022 emtb. I guess I could live with it for the vast majority of my rides though but, having had last week end the experience of running out of juice with a rental emtb (500wh), with 300m elevation and 10Km to go, I would rather avoid doing this again.
And I never could try one on the trails.

Giant Trance X E+1, size XL, 6500€ (latest model)
What I like:
- Good components
- 750Wh battery, with the potential to add 250, so up to 1000Wh
- Yamaha control for changing modes feel more modern then the bosch Kiosk one
- Modern bike
- Giant official shop in town
What I dont quite like:
- Limited travel (150mm/140mm back): my head tells me it could be enough but my heart tells me I will bottom out all the time and will hate it
- Silly, but I prefer the look of the Orbea
- Not a Bosch motor
- No possibility to test

I know that any of these 2 would be great, first world problem and all, but if you guys have some inputs regarding reliability or user experience with these bikes, that would be great!
So far, I am leaning towards the Orbea Wild fs.

I am almost 40 years old, sporty, 1m87 (6´1), 82 Kg (180lb).

Pfiouuu, that`s a long post.
Cheers to you if you came so far and another cheers if you have something to say about it!

LJ

 

[Tonybro]

If it was me I would be placing my money on the Orbea but I am not a huge fan of how the Bosch system delivers its power but that is a personal preference thing.

I hear good things about the Yamaha motor but not so good things about Giant.

You really need the Yammy motor in the Orbea!

 

[LJHB]

Hi Tony,

Thanks!
I could only test Bosch and Shimano engines so far, and I much prefered the bosch.
I also heard issues with Giant, like issues with water coming in. Providing rain is the general weather up here, I am not sure I want to try my luck...

Then again, one can read that Orbea H frames can have welding issues around the chain stays.

The more I read, the more I see issues with all brands and all bikes Did you have any major issues with your Rise?

 

[Zed]

You'll find a lot of good info on the Orbea Wild here in there Orbea section. I had a 2021 H10.

• The motor is excellent. Powerful, reliable, not too noisy, the clanging wasn't too bad on that bike. Personally, I would take it over all the other FF motors currently.
• Monster truck. A bike I would choose to race local Enduro in a heart beat. It really did eat up gnarly terrain. I had a DPX2. Looks like they come with DPS now. That shock will need replacing it's a joke having it on there.
• Sticks to the ground so well, it's difficult to get off it. It's heavy, it's not playful at all, but it's fast. Really fast.
• It's heavy. Really heavy. Chucking it about isn't a thing. You can get airborne off a ramp no problem though, and be unconcerned about landing in gnarly rock gardens. Bike will sort it out.
• Solid built bike.
• It's quite short in terms of modern geometry, and the seat tube is sort of high, can't get a huge dropper in there. This was fine for me on tight trail in my area, but many would take issue with it I think. I'd have liked it 20mm more reach. Newer bikes like Mondraker and Trek Rail are much longer.
• Battery door sucks. It's confounding that the design team thought "yeah, she'll be right" about that one. Put a velcro strap around it.

I have just gone to a Fuel EXe. Wholly different approach. Have a think about that sort of bike too, if where you live is flat. It's a lot more fun on my local trails than the Orbea was, and from the sounds of it you'd find the same on your local trails. However if you're talking bike parks and self shuttling it wouldn't be the right bike I don't think. The Orbea will do that. If those parks have chair lifts, that might change things, depending on how much travel you need.

The Orbea was too capable, only fun on the gnarliest trails and it got old running the same trails all the time.

If you're keen on the heavy hitting full fat bike like the Orbea still, then also consider Mondraker Crafty, Trek Rail, Focus Sam2 if you can get the dealer support you want.

I do regret getting rid of the Orbea. I prefer my new Fuel EXe as an only bike, but man I'd love to have both. I see something similar in my future.

 

[Tonybro]

Did you have any major issues with your Rise?

No, it is the bike I use the most. Not the bulldozer my full fat bike is, certainly more agile and I get up the same climbs as my Merida, just a little slower as the power is lower.

Worth considering a lightweight as mentioned below with the Trek but if you have the Orbea dealer nearby, see if you can get a look at one. Some Orbea dealers do ride days/paid trials.

The Rise is a wonderful bike in most situations but not in the wildest of stuff such as DH but then it's not designed for it, it is a trail bike and eats up everything I throw at it, including Black XC trails...

 

[LJHB]

Thanks guys, very informative!

I also happen to have a Trek official shop in town. I went to check the Rail 7, but I found the value for money not really on par:
- Shimano, M6100 brakes vs XT on Wild
- Bosch Purion controls vs Kiox
- Same 625 wh battery but no range extender.

It didn't make it in the short list.

Zed: thanks for sharing your experience, very helpful! Agreed for the DPS, that's too bad.
Did it climb well? Pedal striking is a thing?

I didn't pay much attention to the Rise or Fuel Exe frankly. The battery size gave me the shivers...Also, the 180 mm disks and the fact that you cannot take the battery off the bike to charge is a concern.
What kind of range/ elevation can you reach with your Rise /Fuel Exe, without feeling like you're riding a normal mtb? I would not want to have have range anxiety as a new thing to deal with or feel like I must drive in Eco through and through to get to 1000m+ elevation.

In any case, thanks for taking the time, much appreciated!

LJ

 

[Tonybro]

My Rise is the M (Carbon), rather than H (Alloy). Consequently it only has the 360Whr battery. I recently covered 28 miles, with just shy of 4000' of climbing. You can also get the additional 252Whr extender, you are then looking at a 40 mile range... It generally is not the issue believe it to be as the bike is lighter. My 504Whr Merida can just about stretch to 25 miles...

 

[Zed]

It didn't make it in the short list.

Zed: thanks for sharing your experience, very helpful! Agreed for the DPS, that's too bad.
Did it climb well? Pedal striking is a thing?

That's interesting locally to me in Australia the Trek Rail has better components versus a more expensive Orbea, and has Kiox.
The Orbea Wild is an insane climber, up literally anything. I've had 3 full fat ebikes and it was by far the best, and no particular pedal striking problems no. It doesn't make you a good climber in any way but it will climb anything for you.

I didn't pay much attention to the Rise or Fuel Exe frankly. The battery size gave me the shivers...Also, the 180 mm disks and the fact that you cannot take the battery off the bike to charge is a concern.
What kind of range/ elevation can you reach with your Rise /Fuel Exe, without feeling like you're riding a normal mtb?

Mine is so new I haven't got good examples on range. I think with the range extender, you could get the range you'd get from Tour mode on a Bosch with 625wh - you'd be putting in somewhat more effort, but not overly so. Tour mode isn't a heap of fun, it's not flying. Because as Tony said these are lighter bikes. It will also really pay back doing some fitness work with additional range, where you can just go out for a ride hungover on a full fat and put in no effort - your condition is more irrelevant. Something to think about is if you do empty the battery with the Fuel EXe you can ride back still no problem - just slower. That situation will truly suck on the Orbea Wild. You'll make it home eventually, but I hope you brought extra snacks and water

The alloy Rise with 540wh is probably the lighter bike with range rivalling/exceeding the Wild with 625w. I almost bought one, but I liked a bunch of things about the Trek more in the end.

It's a difficult choice. I do believe in buying a bike for your local trails first though. That's because I want to ride 4 times per week, I want ebike rides to be my general fitness work as well as something fun. For me that makes the Fuel EXe a better choice than the Orbea Wild was, because it's more engaging. Not because of effort to ride it but because it handles like a regular MTB. With the full fat it's a monster truck, the trails are just not challenging to the bike at all. But if what you're after is full on easy mode, then a full fat bike is the correct bike. If what you're after is MOSTLY shuttling up and bombing down black trails, or Turbo only rides, then again a full fat bike. Just beware it will make generally flatter trails at a mild black or less not as engaging, even pedestrian. From what you've said about your very flat local trails, it sounds like they will be really mundane and basically no exercise at all on the Orbea Wild. You will immediately smack into the limiter (though you can derestrict). If you ride in ECO, you will be just pedalling a heavy lump around - that will make it exercise, but it will be boring.

That said, it took me three different full fat ebikes over 5 years to work all this out, and chopping and changing back to regular bikes when the ebikes became "meh". We all have to try shit to learn hey. I wouldn't have listened to anyone suggesting that shuttling black trails all the time eventually gets old. You can't really go wrong with that Orbea if that's what's drawing you in. And taking it to the Alps or other proper mountain terrain would be excellent, I concede it will be more fun than the Fuel EXe in that situation. Like I said, both bikes is the correct answer Although when I do trips to terrain like that it's likely to be on a plane to somewhere with a chair lift (Queenstown), so a long travel non-e bike is probably the correct bike for that.

BTW my Fuel EXe has 200m rotors both ends (XT brakes) and the battery does come out. The spec is excellent for the $ here in AUS for the 9.8XT. Robs video on the Fuel EXe is excellent if you haven't had a look, and there are a bunch of good vids about it on youtube. Loam Wolf did an ebike test for I think it was 2021 which the Orbea Wild won, another good video that very well describes the Orbea Wild. They did pick on it a little for descending that was only about reach, don't worry about that unless reach is an issue for you - it's an excellent descender, very confidence inspiring. Check out how well they go in the EWS-E

 

[LJHB]

Thanks guys, that's great insights and reflexions.

I think, like every first buy, one tends to completely overthink it, especially knowing that I have little experience to judge what truly make sense for me in terms of emtb.

So, I decided to go for the wild FS.
But I agree with you, it will suck not if, but when I will run out of Juice. As said, already experience that on a Canyon Spectral On and, coincidence, full day pouring rain and the sun just came out at at this precise moment and made the whole experience hotter then necessary.

What pushed me to it vs Rise (or Fuel Exe):
- I will not ride everyday. And when I will go for a ride, on weekends, I will first have to drive 1 to 2,5 hours to get there, if not a full day if I go in the Alps. So I need to make the most of my time on the trails and feel like a full fat will allow to do "more" in these sessions.
- Just ride the thing, until the emtb becomes the bottleneck in the riding experience. Which I think will take a while To make a parallel, I was ski racing since I can remember and was a skiing instructor, and I always found it amusing how "tourists" knew a lot more than me about equipment, turn radiuses, ski construction material mix and obsessed over it. Now, I am becoming one so I need to rectify the course
-possibility to add 500wh for loooong rides.
- Found a pretty decent deal, with a bunch of great upgrades, for the "good" price of 5600€ (haha, remember those days when an expensive mtb was 3000€ ??)

In any case, now comes the most tricky part: negotiations on the home front...

See you on the other side, for the actual ride reviews when negotiations are won!

LJ

 

[Zed]

Sounds good, makes sense. I was thinking about this on the trail this morning, that e-bikes solve a lot of problems for us but the one they still don't solve is "right bike for the job". There's still the right bike for my local trails and that is different to the right bike for "Enduro" purposes. Sounds like you need the "Enduro" one. The Wild FS will serve well to this end

 

[rzr]

accidently I have a Trek Rail, but with the same Bosch as Orbea Wild FS, so I can share about the range. (bosch gen4, 625Wh)
On a good day I did 1100m elevation (35km), boost mode constantly and i had 35% left, on flats motor was not used (i was doing 27-29kph). - 60% motor / 40% me (Avg. User Power 244 W).
Didn't have time to check range on Eco or Tour,
but i expect more than 2000m elevation.
(I weight 76kg fully kitted).

I can't tell anything about full ebike vs light. I bought my first ebike just week ago
my idea was to do fast rides before/after work (I don't mind Turbo - especially that power is addictive and I did some climbs with HR 90-92%HRmax), but I also plan to do big day outs (full day not possible with one battery) with >2000m (can do 2000-3000m climbs on a normal mtb)

 

[Mikerb]

No comment about specific bikes but general advise from me. Probably foremost is to buy from a local bike shop if it is your first emtb and you are not much of a bike mechanic. Second would be to buy a bike that fits you well and feels comfortable to ride. Third, the most capable all round bike is a 29er trail bike with 160mm fork 150mm shock 64/65 head angle.