JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
The written review is up on loam wolf now, I'm posting their geo chart and for the life of me all the numbers are quite close. They moan about reach at 487mm when two other bikes in the test are 485mm?
The loser of the test: Trek Rail 9.9.
- Thread starter Zorg
- Start date
The written review is up on loam wolf now, I'm posting their geo chart and for the life of me all the numbers are quite close. They moan about reach at 487mm when two other bikes in the test are 485mm?
torabora851
Member
Exactly what i thought when was watching the canion spectralon review, they mentioned that it has "balanced geometry".
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torabora851
Member
After introducing 2023 RockShox, 2022 version of Rail looks less attractive. 2022 Zeb and SuperDelux become outdated, and it seems complicated to do an update because the shock is Trek's proprietary, as well as Trek's Zeb, which uses a 1.8'' steerer instead of the normal 1.5''
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
The Zeb is easy, you can buy the charger 3 damper for any previous version of Zeb fork. The super deluxe is a little harder although you can still buy say a 230x60mm SD Ultimate and fit it to the bike.
If your worried about buying newer models and technology you'll always wait and never end up with a new bike
torabora851
Member
230x60 SD Ultimate won't work. There is a post about it, it'll hit the frame with piggyback.
For ZEB not only charger was changed, but there are also other features that can't be upgraded.
The thing is that there is almost no changes in RockShox suspension last 3-4 years, and now is the major shift.
Jhagst
Member
FSA sells the crown race adapters now to convert the 1.8 headset to a 1.5 fork, they are like $5
You can run any 1.5 tapered fork in the big headset bearing.
You can run any 1.5 tapered fork in the big headset bearing.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
The 230x60 is the same as the factory shock on 9.8 and 9.9's except it has a spacer to limit travel to 57.5mm.
torabora851
Member
Trek rail rear shock upgrade ideas please
203 front , not 220 ? I thought all rail , or at least 7 and up, come with 220 front rotor. So 203 are enough as of trek. That’s nice to know My Rail 9.7 as well as my girlfriends and buddy’s Rail 7’s all have 203mm Shimano discs. I have no complaints on the brake setup, work really well.
www.emtbforums.com
The Zeb only came out less than 2 years ago and as mentioned above you can get the damper upgraded to the Charger 3, and even the debonair+ airshaft if you wanted. I know we all have a desire to own the latest and greatest, but unless you are racing EWS-E or something I think the actual differences would be imperceptible to most of us. I don't see this affecting re-sale value either unless you plan on selling the bike in the next 12 months.
My plan is to run the stock suspension and travel for a while at least and determine an upgrade path from there, or even just wait until the forks are due for a service and make a call.
My plan is to run the stock suspension and travel for a while at least and determine an upgrade path from there, or even just wait until the forks are due for a service and make a call.
I run the new super deluxe ultimate 230x62.5 on my 2022 Large with no issues.
torabora851
Member
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Going back slightly to test results (specifically the latest loam wolf tests) So 487mm in large on the Trek Rail was "too long" asked online why not test a medium at 456mm reach and they said that would be "far too short".
So today I read the Scott Ransom Eride 920 (440mm reach!!) review and see this..
"Unfortunately, due to availability issues we could only secure a size medium for our crew, which meant the bike felt a bit small, but it still gave us the opportunity to see how the bike would perform, and once again reminds us that bikes with shorter reaches are so much more fun than super long bikes. Only our tallest riders (6’1”-6’2”) had difficulties overcoming the shortness to really feel at home on the bike. "
Talk about conflicting, really makes me question whether they just pick holes in anything they can
So today I read the Scott Ransom Eride 920 (440mm reach!!) review and see this..
"Unfortunately, due to availability issues we could only secure a size medium for our crew, which meant the bike felt a bit small, but it still gave us the opportunity to see how the bike would perform, and once again reminds us that bikes with shorter reaches are so much more fun than super long bikes. Only our tallest riders (6’1”-6’2”) had difficulties overcoming the shortness to really feel at home on the bike. "
Talk about conflicting, really makes me question whether they just pick holes in anything they can
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Roy D
Member
Was thinking the same thing……
I've been watching all of the reviews for the loam wolf EMTB shootout and its actually really hard to gauge what they like and actually think of the bikes. Maybe only the Levo and the Scott (from a Price/performance perspective) have been the 2 where they seemed to be in agreement. The whole of the enduro category in particular seems to feel like they are lukewarm on. The only real takeaway I seem to get from all the reviews is if something is deemed "soft off the top" or not. Keen to hear the final summary vid as that will hopefully have some more context.
I think in this day and age you have to take all product reviews with a massive amount of salt.
The social media presence on a lot of these guys doing reviews means they are probably open to taking insentives to give biased opinions based on their reach with stuff like YouTube.
Personally would only buy a bike now after a test ride. Let's not kid ourselves, we are paying a huge amount for these bikes, demo options should be standard practice
The social media presence on a lot of these guys doing reviews means they are probably open to taking insentives to give biased opinions based on their reach with stuff like YouTube.
Personally would only buy a bike now after a test ride. Let's not kid ourselves, we are paying a huge amount for these bikes, demo options should be standard practice
torabora851
Member
I would happy to test a bike before buying instead of relying on reviews. But it's just impossible. I'm even unable to just see the bike, I have to order it blind in advance for many months just looking at pictures. My local Trek dealer doesn't have demo bikes, they say they used to but now it doesn't make sense because anyway people buy them far before it arrives.
Let's create a petition which legally forces dealers to give you a demo bike
Let's create a petition which legally forces dealers to give you a demo bike
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I would happy to test a bike before buying instead of relying on reviews. But it's just impossible. I'm even unable to just see the bike, I have to order it blind in advance for many months just looking at pictures. My local Trek dealer doesn't have demo bikes, they say they used to but now it doesn't make sense because anyway people buy them far before it arrives.
Let's create a petition which legally forces dealers to give you a demo bike
My local trek shop told me the same thing so I just went elsewhere.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Well after all that it looks like the Trek Rail 9.9 came just behind the Levo in the loam wolf tests and won “best adventure Emtb” in the trail category.
still not even a mention of battery rattles
still not even a mention of battery rattles
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I've got to admit I've been very confused with the reviews of these bikes.
I rode the Gen 3 Levo and 2022 Trek Rail before making my decision to buy.
I found the Levo very firm in the suspension department and the Trek very forgiving, these reviews say the exact opposite?
They are both of course excellent bikes but I preferred the Trek, so it goes to show you can't make your buying decision on someone else's opinion.
I'm now extremely happy with my 2022 9.8, and I've still got my old 2020 Rail 9.8.
I would no way choose my older Rail over the new bike, again this goes against the Loam Wolf opinion??
I rode the Gen 3 Levo and 2022 Trek Rail before making my decision to buy.
I found the Levo very firm in the suspension department and the Trek very forgiving, these reviews say the exact opposite?
They are both of course excellent bikes but I preferred the Trek, so it goes to show you can't make your buying decision on someone else's opinion.
I'm now extremely happy with my 2022 9.8, and I've still got my old 2020 Rail 9.8.
I would no way choose my older Rail over the new bike, again this goes against the Loam Wolf opinion??
My guess is that it depends on whether you prefer the longer wheelbase and slacker suspension of the new 9.8 Rail vs the old Rail. It may be that the longer wheelbase was a design decision forced upon Trek by the need to have a longer downtube required to accommodate the larger battery. But hey, what do I know.
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
Very glad to hear that!! My 9.8XT is due in 8 weeks and I cannot wait
I considered this, but if they can fit the bigger battery into the medium bike, they didn't need to make the large as long as they did??
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
In the medium the 2022 model is only 15mm longer in wheelbase (1.2%) than the 2021 and the Head angle is only 0.3° slacker than the 2021 model. The seat angle on the 22 is actually steeper.
Its not really a huge change apart from the giant leaps in reach
Compare size: Large
torabora851
Member
If they were able to squeeze the battery to 45.6mm rich Medium, why make L 49.1? The gap between M and L for the previous model was just 20mm, for the new one 35.
As said above, compare 2021 v 2022 size: Large
A longer wheelbase will always give a smoother ride everything else being equal. It puts you more between the wheels which is where all the up and down bounce is happening. It's also possible that the suspension on either bike wasn't really set up for you - that takes some time with the bike.
H
Second - yes, reach on the Rail and Canyon are close. However, the head tube angle on the Canyon is noticeably steeper (meaning it handles faster/quicker turning) and second, the chainstays are quite a bit shorter, leading to a lot shorter wheelbase overall.
These three factors make the Canyon )even with a similar reach, a much shorter, more playful and easier to turn bike than the Rail at slower speeds and awkward corners.
Second - I'd just like to share that yes, this is work for us and how we make a living, however we 100% do our best to be as open, transparent and I personally guarantee we do not put anything else above our honest impressions of products! WE know how expensive these bikes are and how much people have to work and save and we want to sleep well at night knowing we made a recommendation we stand behind. But, bikes are very personal as is terrain and riding style, and that's why we try to clarify that to give the most value we can to the widest variety of readers and viewer we can.
Thank you!
Drew and The Loam Wolf Crew
Hey Guys, Drew from Loam Wolf here, really appreciate you all watching/reading our reviews and discussing them. First up, I wanted to address the above comment about the Canyon feeling "balanced." There's a lot more than just reach that goes into this and to be honest, I personally would love it if the Canyon was 5-8mm shorter, I felt it was a bit long for my personal taste, but part of these shootouts is having multiple riders with different preferences weigh in so viewers have more input.
Second - yes, reach on the Rail and Canyon are close. However, the head tube angle on the Canyon is noticeably steeper (meaning it handles faster/quicker turning) and second, the chainstays are quite a bit shorter, leading to a lot shorter wheelbase overall.
These three factors make the Canyon )even with a similar reach, a much shorter, more playful and easier to turn bike than the Rail at slower speeds and awkward corners.
Second - I'd just like to share that yes, this is work for us and how we make a living, however we 100% do our best to be as open, transparent and I personally guarantee we do not put anything else above our honest impressions of products! WE know how expensive these bikes are and how much people have to work and save and we want to sleep well at night knowing we made a recommendation we stand behind. But, bikes are very personal as is terrain and riding style, and that's why we try to clarify that to give the most value we can to the widest variety of readers and viewer we can.
Thank you!
Drew and The Loam Wolf Crew
Appreciate you posting in here Drew!
I think you have touched on a key point for most of the people here - investing in an ebike is a rather big decision and with the supply chain disruptions, it can almost feel like a gamble ordering a bike that you are only likely to see 3-6 months later (and 0 chance of demo'ing one!).
With the Rail in particular, ordering a 2022 version felt like an educated gamble - the existing rail had generally been top of most reviews and shootouts and the proposed changes looked from my perspective like they could only make the bike even better (new bosch smart system, bigger battery, GEO numbers matching the Slash etc).
I think this is why some of us here are left scratching out heads and trying to determine if the bike is now somehow fundamentally flawed or if this can all be attributed back to sizing issue being the culprit. As it turns out for me personally, the extra reach will likely be perfect as i've always been an inbetweener height.
I think you have touched on a key point for most of the people here - investing in an ebike is a rather big decision and with the supply chain disruptions, it can almost feel like a gamble ordering a bike that you are only likely to see 3-6 months later (and 0 chance of demo'ing one!).
With the Rail in particular, ordering a 2022 version felt like an educated gamble - the existing rail had generally been top of most reviews and shootouts and the proposed changes looked from my perspective like they could only make the bike even better (new bosch smart system, bigger battery, GEO numbers matching the Slash etc).
I think this is why some of us here are left scratching out heads and trying to determine if the bike is now somehow fundamentally flawed or if this can all be attributed back to sizing issue being the culprit. As it turns out for me personally, the extra reach will likely be perfect as i've always been an inbetweener height.
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