The Bollix Behind Warranty & Derestriction.

[Madmountainman]

I've just had a quick look at the latest review on the Moustache Friday 27 FS Speed Dual S-Pedelec, which raises the following question.
If the Bosch CX Line Motor is sufficiently strong/reliable enough to use at speeds up to 45kph, then why won't they honour a warranty claim on an E-MTB S-Pedelec motor that's been derestricted from 25kph?
The 25 restriction is only to comply with legislation, made up by fun hating politicians, to keep us all contained and protect us from ourselves. It's not Bosch's job to police this, so why won't they fix their broken motors if they've been derestricted as, obviously, the motor's more than capable.

Note; before you answer, this is more of a rhetorical question commenting on the stupidity of the legislation, rather than an actual question.

 

[Rosemount]

The multi Billion dollar fine BOSCH got for assisting Volkswagon to cheat the emissions tests might be a factor ?
Look at how we are pro active in stopping people go faster than their governments want to allow ? We are obviously squeaky clean corporate citizens . lol .

That 45 K bike would have to have brake lights , be registered and the rider be licensed ??

 

[Madmountainman]

The multi Billion dollar fine BOSCH got for assisting Volkswagon to cheat the emissions tests might be a factor ?
Look at how we are pro active in stopping people go faster than their governments want to allow ? We are obviously squeaky clean corporate citizens . lol .

That 45 K bike would have to have brake lights , be registered and the rider be licensed ??

It's not about what add-ons the bike requires to make it street legal - which, incidentally, makes it illegal off road - it's about the excuses the manufacturers make regarding any potential warranty claim. If the bike's derestricted, they'll say you've exceeded the set speed limit and decline a repair. It's the same with Shimano. Use their EP8 in the EU/UK and tell the motor you're in the USA and they'll decline a repair, even though you haven't exceeded the designed and approved limits of the motor. This is just typical of the modern era we live in, where we're mired in bureaucracy and leaders that want us all to never take risks and keep us wrapped up in cotton wool and bubblewrap.
I don't want to blast along at 30mph+, I just want a bike that's set at a sensible speed, which the USA has done a better job of legislating. I often find, when riding analogue with other friends on e-bikes, i'm often leaving them behind on the faster flowing singletrack, as my ride speed's around 17-18mph and their motors are cutting out at 15.
It's not going to change anything, but I just felt like a wee vent over the irony of it all.?

 

[Norange]

When you say it's not Bosch's job to police this - I reckon you're wrong. They are legally obliged to make sure their product conforms to the legislation. I vaguely remember Spesh having to restrict access to the wheel sizing in mission control as it effectively allowed speed change. And the implication being the Manufacturer was responsible for ensuring the restriction wasn't easy for a user to avoid.

WRT the warranty issue, I have sympathy with users and also the manufacturer. They can't encourage or be seen to support derestriction - so invalidating warranty is a way of proving that. Also remember that they've tested the bike with the code it comes with. If a user chose to replace that code, they have no knowledge (and I'd say no obligation) to understand what the user has done. Any change implies an owner willing to change the code, thus they don't have to honour warranty.

 

[EebStrider]

I often find, when riding analogue with other friends on e-bikes, i'm often leaving them behind on the faster flowing singletrack, as my ride speed's around 17-18mph and their motors are cutting out at 15.

Are they on Bosch powered ebikes or other makes, as the good thing with the Bosch is the way you can peddle way past the limit, if you're fit enough?

 

[TrailBoB]

Are they on Bosch powered ebikes or other makes, as the good thing with the Bosch is the way you can peddle way past the limit, if you're fit enough?

It’s the “fit enough bit” that’s the problem.??. I go out on my emtb with my nephew sometimes, he’s analogue. As you say on the single track level stuff you get left behind as 15mph is just out of the sweet spot. He has done 4 or 5 iron-man tournaments though, so I still think I’d struggle with full derestriction???. But I do agree 20mph would be great.

 

[GrahamPaul]

The 25km/hr maximum motor support speed is to comply with European legislation (and the reasoning is explained on Bosch's website).

None of the comments above are made by EU citizens. You are free of that requirement. You are sovereign countries which hold all the cards. Therefore I suggest that you write to your government representatives and get your own laws changed. I'm sure they'll be only to happy to demonstrate this act of sovereignty for you.

From memory, (not having lived there for nearly 40 years) I believe that the UK has very lax Health and Safety Legislation and that your politicians will be more than happy to burn said red tape... Oh! Wait!

 

[Mikerb]

All of this ground has been covered before!! Clearly there would be no problem from a technical point of view amending the speed cut off limit. It was set as it was in order to fit within an overall structure of "motor vehicles" starting with mopeds and ranging up from there. The limitation placed on mopeds was primarily a speed capability limit. The consequences of pedelecs overlapping with the heirachy of motor vehicles was twofold. Firstly, unless pedelecs were kept at a level below mopeds they would need "Type Approval" and that is an expensive process involving crash testing, brake efficiency etc. Secondly, all the existing laws relating to that heirachy of motor vehicles would need to be applied. Things such as tax, insurance, MOT testing, lights, brake lights.......and in terms of 2 wheeled motor vehicles......helmets.

In many respects we are lucky a hard fought lobby was able to convince the authorities that there was room for a new class of motor vehicles called pedelecs and that they could, with the appropriate restrictions in power and speed could still be classed as cycles and a void things like tax, insurance and type approval.

Now that the UK has regained its Sovereignty and given the Governments enthusiasm for cycling not only as exercise but as an alternative means of essential travel, we may see some changes in the structure of the Road Traffic Act...........something that probably needs a full review now in any case given the arrival of hybrid and electric cars. I dare say the Govt has other priorities currently however!

 

[flash]

It's not about what add-ons the bike requires to make it street legal - which, incidentally, makes it illegal off road - it's about the excuses the manufacturers make regarding any potential warranty claim. If the bike's derestricted, they'll say you've exceeded the set speed limit and decline a repair. It's the same with Shimano. Use their EP8 in the EU/UK and tell the motor you're in the USA and they'll decline a repair, even though you haven't exceeded the designed and approved limits of the motor. This is just typical of the modern era we live in, where we're mired in bureaucracy and leaders that want us all to never take risks and keep us wrapped up in cotton wool and bubblewrap.
I don't want to blast along at 30mph+, I just want a bike that's set at a sensible speed, which the USA has done a better job of legislating. I often find, when riding analogue with other friends on e-bikes, i'm often leaving them behind on the faster flowing singletrack, as my ride speed's around 17-18mph and their motors are cutting out at 15.
It's not going to change anything, but I just felt like a wee vent over the irony of it all.?

The main reason you're leaving them behind isn't the motor cutting out. It's the simple reality that they're chasing you on a 24-25kg bike. Load up your analogue bike with weights until it's 25kg and then see how easy it is to lose them..... Or drop the chain and you'll find there's only a few watts resistance when you spin the cranks. What you *feel* when the motor assistance cuts out is the extra hundred or so watts you now need that the bike is no longer providing.

The warranty issue is no different to any other motor. Cars use the same engines with different tunes in different models and warrant them accordingly. Bosh isn't doing anything different.

Gordon

 

[EebStrider]

You just need to pedal harder! ?