Technique question from a Friday Fails ...

[Zimmerframe]

So this guy .. at 54 seconds ... Weight back but manages a superb full pogo stick gold star otb.

Worryingly I think I've done something similar a "few" times ... He had his weight well back, but what screwed it for him ? the little jerk before he went over causing the opposite to what he intended ? Too slow .. combination of the two ? Weight back too soon ? Maybe one for @Gary to say "not like dat ya stupid wee to55er"

 

[steve_sordy]

Looks like he applied his front brake, hard!

I have done something very similar, so I can see how it is possible.
In my case I wasn't paying attention, was listening to my mate blathering away behind me and when I got to a log that I had gone over countless times, just braked hard. My fork compressed, I went OTB, the bike shot backwards, and I landed from a height of at least 3 feet onto the log. I thought that I had broken both thighs.

 

[ifu03558]

he was too slow and just pushed his weight back, you need to push the bars away from yourself, kinda like a manual.

 

[ifu03558]

The slower you go the harder it is, a wee bit of speed and push through on the bars whilst moving your body weight back and he would have sailed over it no bother. The speed he was going at he would have had to effectively manual off it

 

[Gary]

Short answer.
He's simply shit

Don't try stuff way above your level of riding. Especially if you're shit.

CBA analysing each and every morsel of poor technique of some dude from a Friday Fails vid... kinda ruins the entire point of watching Friday Fails.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Short answer.
He's simply shit

Don't try stuff way above your level of riding. Especially if you're shit.

CBA analysing each and every morsel of poor technique of some dude from a Friday Fails vid... kinda ruins the entire point of watching Friday Fails.

But if you're shit .. everything is above your level ?

Anyway, it's less painful to learn from someone else's mistakes than your own . ?

 

[Gary]

Taking your place on the learning curve and practice instead of typing shit on here and analysing pointless irrelevant stuff might be a good place to start on the road to not being quite so shit dude .

Baby steps man.. Baby steps.. Make the first one backwards away from the keyboard.

 

[routrax]

So this guy .. at 54 seconds ... Weight back but manages a superb full pogo stick gold star otb.

Looks like he was too far back and hit his rear tyre with his ass making the front dive and giving him the momentum for that glorious OTB.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Looks like he was too far back and hit his rear tyre with his ass making the front dive and giving him the momentum for that glorious OTB.

I think you're right, just watched it again and you can actually hear the tyre grate his arse !

That was a fabulous OTB. One I'd certainly be proud of.

 

[Zimmerframe]

instead of typing shit on here and analysing pointless irrelevant stuff might be a good place to start

But .. but ... FRIDAY FAILS is THE ultimate on-line educational How not to Video !

Everyone else makes videos like "how to manual" .. you can only learn so much from learning how to do something. You can learn so much more from learning how NOT to do something

 

[ninjichor]

The slower you go, the more you need to precisely time a technique that keeps the front wheel up. In his case, he was already very far back, which is a big reason why his rearward weight shift was pitifully weak.

You can offset this speed requirement by getting a bike that has less forward weight bias. You get a bike with less forward weight bias when it has its cranks closer to the rear wheel than the front. In other words, you want shorter chainstays AND/OR longer front center (the distance between the front wheel and crank). Other than getting a new frame with longer reach, you can get a longer front center by slackening your HA with angleset and/or fork with longer A2C.

Bikes that have less rearward weight bias will have you hanging off the back a lot more for a wide range of techniques, to offset how prone they are to going over the bars. Bikes that have too much rearward weight bias will have you feeling that the front lacks traction, and prone to washing out. When a bike is balanced so you're not purposefully hanging off the back or weighting the front so often, it's considered to be "balanced" and is easier to ride, since your neutral relaxed (centered) position is balanced. Can dead sailor a balanced bike and do surprisingly well.

Can generally adapt to any bike, if you have a good sense of weight bias. Some bikes require hanging back, especially short travel 29ers in smaller sizes. That same bike model might require little to no hanging back in size XL (e.g. Santa Cruz Blur 29), since the front center grows with each size. Vice versa is true too, some models that feel like it forces you to weight the front might feel balanced in smaller sizes, such as some "fun/aggro" bikes (e.g. Process 153 29, Whyte G170). No coincidence that a lot of manufacturers that are getting good reviews mentioning balanced geo are putting out mid-long travel 29ers with 435 CS and 1230 WB. I estimate that for every 5mm of CS change, the WB should grow 20mm, so 440 CS with 1250 WB would feel similarly balanced as the 435/1230 bike, but have all the pros and cons associated with longer WB.

I state this not as opinion or belief, but something I can support with evidence, facts, etc. No coincidence that the Pivot Shuttle, in size large with 437 CS and 1232 WB, will fly decently with little technique. The YT Decoy, Vitus E-Sommet, Fezzari Wire Peak, and a number of others would have similar weight balance in XL. Good luck getting the Trek Powerfly's front end off the ground with so much weight bias on it.

 

[Mikerb]

If you look at the ground where his back wheel is tracking there is a skid mark. So based on the fact his front wheel immediately headed to the ground once it cleared the lip, I think he grabbed the back brake on entry. Despite hanging off the back of the bike all the momentum was therefore thrown forward. In summary...lack of commitment.

 

[slippery pete]

Definitely sits on the tyre.

I don't like the terminology of "weight back" because any beginner hearing those words will interpret them as "dangling off the back of the bike is the thing to do". If an experienced mountain biker says "weight back", they're trying to describe a dynamic move that they execute using muscle memory with the whole thing being a lot more subtle. If a beginner survives their first encounter with something a little bit steep by moving their weight back just like they've been told and then face something steeper, they probably try moving their weight further back, just like they've been told. Sooner or later, the survival skills don't see them through.

Jeez. How do you explain all of that to the newb? Aw, just say "weight back" and they'll figure it out for themselves... eventually and many injuries later.

 

[Indigo]

Here's a good video to explain how to ride drop offs and common mistakes to avoid.

 

[Rusty]

Simply put, a shit rider on a shit bike.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Simply put, a shit rider on a shit bike.

You don't think he needs more re-bound damping to reduce his pogo height if this is something he does regularly ?

 

[Rusty]

I would say he does do this regularly - based on the way the forks broke.
Initially I thought the frame broke at the headset, but looking again it looks like the stem broke out of the crown - or the crown failed. Based on his apparent lack of skills I suspect abuse and lack of maintenance.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I would say he does do this regularly - based on the way the forks broke.
Initially I thought the frame broke at the headset, but looking again it looks like the stem broke out of the crown - or the crown failed. Based on his apparent lack of skills I suspect abuse and lack of maintenance.

Nooooo ... not that guy ! That guy was a star ! That guy was a unicycle developer.

The guy I was interested in was the guy at 54 seconds. Though the 54 second start link didn't work for some reason ... I couldn't work out why he nose dived as much as he did, but as others have pointed out, he used his ass as a rear brake pad.

youtu.be/sdYsbkKn8Ic?t=54

 

[Rusty]

Well - too slow and dragging his butt on the rear wheel causing even more slowing allowed his front wheel to compress then bounce back ... completely negating his front suspension - except where the rebound of the forks added to the rebound of the front wheel to really launch the bike.

 

[slippery pete]

you can only learn so much from learning how to do something. You can learn so much more from learning how NOT to do something

^^^^^ This!

There aren't many lessons to learn from Friday Fails but they're important lessons that can inoculate your own riding

Things I have learned that should be avoidable

1. Losing a foot off the pedals (multiple underlying causes)
   • Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame (discuss whether this one is actually a range of motion / anticipation issue)
2. Weight back so sit on tyre causing violent OTB
   • as discussed
3. Dead sailor
4. Range of motion (rider position) issues
   • Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame
5. Special case of 4 - pedals not level / leg straight / saddle hitting backside and instant OTB
   • Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame
6. Suspension not supportive enough (range of motion of suspension)
   • Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame
   • Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame
7. Hanging too hard on the brakes
8. Going too deep off a steep drop
9. Casing
10. Morons
    • Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame

 

[RickBullotta]

The slower you go, the more you need to precisely time a technique that keeps the front wheel up. In his case, he was already very far back, which is a big reason why his rearward weight shift was pitifully weak.

You can offset this speed requirement by getting a bike that has less forward weight bias. You get a bike with less forward weight bias when it has its cranks closer to the rear wheel than the front. In other words, you want shorter chainstays AND/OR longer front center (the distance between the front wheel and crank). Other than getting a new frame with longer reach, you can get a longer front center by slackening your HA with angleset and/or fork with longer A2C.

Bikes that have less rearward weight bias will have you hanging off the back a lot more for a wide range of techniques, to offset how prone they are to going over the bars. Bikes that have too much rearward weight bias will have you feeling that the front lacks traction, and prone to washing out. When a bike is balanced so you're not purposefully hanging off the back or weighting the front so often, it's considered to be "balanced" and is easier to ride, since your neutral relaxed (centered) position is balanced. Can dead sailor a balanced bike and do surprisingly well.

Can generally adapt to any bike, if you have a good sense of weight bias. Some bikes require hanging back, especially short travel 29ers in smaller sizes. That same bike model might require little to no hanging back in size XL (e.g. Santa Cruz Blur 29), since the front center grows with each size. Vice versa is true too, some models that feel like it forces you to weight the front might feel balanced in smaller sizes, such as some "fun/aggro" bikes (e.g. Process 153 29, Whyte G170). No coincidence that a lot of manufacturers that are getting good reviews mentioning balanced geo are putting out mid-long travel 29ers with 435 CS and 1230 WB. I estimate that for every 5mm of CS change, the WB should grow 20mm, so 440 CS with 1250 WB would feel similarly balanced as the 435/1230 bike, but have all the pros and cons associated with longer WB.

I state this not as opinion or belief, but something I can support with evidence, facts, etc. No coincidence that the Pivot Shuttle, in size large with 437 CS and 1232 WB, will fly decently with little technique. The YT Decoy, Vitus E-Sommet, Fezzari Wire Peak, and a number of others would have similar weight balance in XL. Good luck getting the Trek Powerfly's front end off the ground with so much weight bias on it.

I've found my Shuttle to be nearly perfectly balanced in the air - feels close enough to my Santa Cruz Hightower that I can launch more or less the same. On the other hand, my previous eMTB, the KTM Kapoho Macina, was a nose-heavy pig with a low bottom bracket. Scary to jump or do drops with. The Shuttle is harder to manual my Santa Cruz though, and definitely a bit different timing getting the front end up for bunny hops or logovers.

 

[steve_sordy]

.............. On the other hand, my previous eMTB, the KTM Kapoho Macina, was a nose-heavy pig with a low bottom bracket. Scary to jump or do drops with. ...........

You mean that it can be the bike's fault! Nobody told me that!!!

 

[Deleted member 7464]

But .. but ... FRIDAY FAILS is THE ultimate on-line educational How not to Video !

Everyone else makes videos like "how to manual" .. you can only learn so much from learning how to do something. You can learn so much more from learning how NOT to do something

Maybe the Friday fails videos should be renamed 'how to faceplant' ???