Stem change

[Sander23]

Im thinking of changing the stem. I want to experiment with my bar height.
My current stem is not adjustable.

Do I also nee to change the headset for that? Or is spacers and a stem enough.

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Hi @Sander23, what is the problem you're trying to solve here? Can you describe why you'd like to raise or lower the handlebar height?

 

[Sander23]

I want to try out lowering the bars and getting a bit more a reach.
want to feel how that rides.
The stem now also has a 6° angle and bars are pretty high and close to me now.

 

[irie]

I want to try out lowering the bars and getting a bit more a reach.
want to feel how that rides.
The stem now also has a 6° angle and bars are pretty high and close to me now.

If the 6 degree stem is mounted 'upwards' perhaps you can mount the stem the other way up to lower the bars?
You could also move some spacers from below the stem to above the stem which would increase reach as well as lowering the bars.

 

[Mamba90]

If you are trying to get more reach as bike is too small you'll only be able to get so much improvement by removing spacers, changing bars and changing stem. Sometimes what you 'feel' might improve matters just doesn't.. Your stem is already pretty long. Maybe remove a few spacers and move seat back a little? Good luck with your efforts.

 

[Sander23]

That's the thing I cant experiment with the current stem as the spacers are to big to put on top, also the stem cap has an angle

Spacers are like this

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Going the spacer route, maybe you could try using different spacer heights. Wolftooth makes them from 3mm to 30mm, so you could easily mix and match to find the perfect setup.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/wolf-tooth-headset-spacers

 

[Mamba90]

Borrow a different stem maybe? Or remove spacers and don't put them on top. You'll get a feel for how it would work but you'd have some steerer tube poking up until you took decision to cut it down a bit. I'd go the new stem route.

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Since your stem length is currently 50mm, you could try a slightly longer stem, maybe 60 or 70mm. Plenty of longer stem models are readily available.

Is your saddle correctly fitted? Have you tried to slide it backwards?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Stems are not 'adjustable'. They come in a fixed length and rise. Some can be flipped upside down to make to reverse the rise.

All of these changes that you are considering, have considerable effect on how the bike handles assuming you ride somewhat aggressively.

If the ETT (effective Top Tube = distance from seat to bars) feels too short, then removing the spacers underneath the stem will make the ETT (and reach) longer because the HTA (Head Tube Angle) is angled and going lower slides the bars forward as well as down. If you want more reach but like the current bar height, getting a high ride bar then removing all of those stem spacers will get you there. Just make sure to mount the bars where they go straight up, not angled back.

Most stock bikes have the bars too tall imo, meant to be comfortable on the parking lot test, but also meant to not have the steerer tube cut too short, limiting future options.

Lowering the actual bar height will notably improve front wheel traction. Even 5mm is very noticeable at the limit. Just a basic rule: any performance ridden bike the grips should be level with the seat at the most, and usually a bit lower than the seat.

Can you clarify exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish and we'll go from there? Is this a handling issue, a bike fit issue, etc.?

Most think bars and stems are a comfort issue but they dramatically effect handling as well and this has to be considered if you care about performance.

 

[Sander23]

Stems are not 'adjustable'. They come in a fixed length and rise. Some can be flipped upside down to make to reverse the rise.

All of these changes that you are considering, have considerable effect on how the bike handles assuming you ride somewhat aggressively.

If the ETT (effective Top Tube = distance from seat to bars) feels too short, then removing the spacers underneath the stem will make the ETT (and reach) longer because the HTA (Head Tube Angle) is angled and going lower slides the bars forward as well as down. If you want more reach but like the current bar height, getting a high ride bar then removing all of those stem spacers will get you there. Just make sure to mount the bars where they go straight up, not angled back.

Most stock bikes have the bars too tall imo, meant to be comfortable on the parking lot test, but also meant to not have the steerer tube cut too short, limiting future options.

Lowering the actual bar height will notably improve front wheel traction. Even 5mm is very noticeable at the limit. Just a basic rule: any performance ridden bike the grips should be level with the seat at the most, and usually a bit lower than the seat.

Can you clarify exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish and we'll go from there? Is this a handling issue, a bike fit issue, etc.?

Most think bars and stems are a comfort issue but they dramatically effect handling as well and this has to be considered if you care about performance.

The thing is that this stem is not adjustable in height , it all doesnt fit and the stemcap has an angle that fits the stem.

my seating position on the bike is pretty straight.
My height is 177cm, I ride a size M with a reach of 420mm . But I feel like a want a bit more reach.

 

[Sander23]

I also too a measurement of my bar height. And that's 1.5 cm higher then my saddle height

 

[Suns_PSD]

The only thing unusual there, is that top cap.

Loosen the stem, lift it up straight off the steerer (if your front tire is off the ground the entire front fork is going to fall out of the bottom of the headtube), place the smallest spacer you can find between the frame and the stem, then place all of the rest of the spacers on top until the steerer is about 3-4 mm below the top spacer.

Just buy a standard top cap from the local bike shop or from Amazon. They are standard. What is weird about the your current cap you have, is that it protrudes down requiring you to run extra spacers so that the cap doesn't bottom out on the steerer, before you get the steer tube tightened up. So just ditch that top cap.

I do agree that a 420mm Reach is much too short while standing for a 177cm tall rider. They probably built it oddly short because the STA is slack and they didn't want the bars to be too far away while seated. That's one of the problems with these old school geos, you can have the right reach while seated, or while standing, but not both.

 

[Sander23]

Thats the geo of my bike(trailbike 140mm f&r) in size m,

 

[Sander23]

I don't think I want to use the current stem as the current spacers on top of the stem will look awefull

 

[Zimmerframe]

You should just be able to get some normal spacers to go on top of the stem - the big ones are weird on top !

Ultimately, as you're dropping the stem and moving more spacers on top (to accommodate the length of the steerer tube) you can use the existing top cap whilst you're testing.

If you're happy with things, you can bash down the star nut (which is higher than it should be) and cut the steerer down to the correct size - as you don't want excessive spacers above anyway from an injury point of view. You might still be able to use the original top cap in this situation once the star nut has descended 1cm.

 

[Sander23]

You should just be able to get some normal spacers to go on top of the stem - the big ones are weird on top !

View attachment 126407

Ultimately, as you're dropping the stem and moving more spacers on top (to accommodate the length of the steerer tube) you can use the existing top cap whilst you're testing.

If you're happy with things, you can bash down the star nut (which is higher than it should be) and cut the steerer down to the correct size - as you don't want excessive spacers above anyway from an injury point of view. You might still be able to use the original top cap in this situation once the star nut has descended 1cm.

So I found a sqlab 80x stem that I want to get.

First: I don't know if I need a new upper headset for that( I don't have the knowledge of stems headsets etc.)

Seccond: the steerer tube length is 59.1 mm. How much spacers would I need and what size.
Specs of the stem:

Also dropping the stem will increase reach. But should I get a 60 of 70mm stem instead of 50mm, or just stick with the 50.


Appreciate the help of everyone!

 

[Mamba90]

It's a difficult call. The longer stem might be better for going uphill but less great coming downhill. There is a degree of personal preference. Maybe stick to 50mm so as not to throw things too off balance.

I would get stem and try it out with various spacers before you consider cutting the steerer tube. You obviously cannot put back what you've cut off .

 

[Sander23]

It's a difficult call. The longer stem might be better for going uphill but less great coming downhill. There is a degree of personal preference. Maybe stick to 50mm so as not to throw things too off balance.

I would get stem and try it out with various spacers before you consider cutting the steerer tube. You obviously cannot put back what you've cut off .

I'm definitely not cutting it yet. If all goes bad I can put it back to original

 

[Tepi]

Asia on siinä, että tämä varsi ei ole korkeussäädettävä, se ei sovi kaikkiin ja varren kärjessä on kulma, joka sopii varteen.

istuma-asentoni pyörässä on melko suora.
Olen 177 cm pitkä, ratsastan koossa M, jonka ulottuvuus on 420 mm. Mutta minusta tuntuu, että haluan hieman enemmän ulottuvuutta.
View attachment 126396 View attachment 126397

Siirrä satulaasi taaksepäin,1cm, on paljon.

 

[steve_sordy]

How wide are your bars?

Going wider will move your body closer to the front of the bike, but will give you more steering control and you will be better able to resists the turning forces that rocks and roots exert on your front wheel. You can counter some of the negatives by fitting a shorter stem, which as well as moving your body rearwards, it will quicken steering response.

Going narrower will move your body away from the front of the bike so that you won't feel as though you are on top of the bars. But it will reduce your steering control and rocky corners will become a bit trickier. You can counter some of the negatives by fitting a longer stem, but that may reduce steering response. The narrower option may not be a good option in terms of steering control etc, but if you are overall more comfortable on the bike, then it could be a winner.

I have a long body so I can feel that a bike does not have enough reach, wider bars can counter that for me (with the other benefits as mentioned).

 

[Sander23]

How wide are your bars?

Going wider will move your body closer to the front of the bike, but will give you more steering control and you will be better able to resists the turning forces that rocks and roots exert on your front wheel. You can counter some of the negatives by fitting a shorter stem, which as well as moving your body rearwards, it will quicken steering response.

Going narrower will move your body away from the front of the bike so that you won't feel as though you are on top of the bars. But it will reduce your steering control and rocky corners will become a bit trickier. You can counter some of the negatives by fitting a longer stem, but that may reduce steering response. The narrower option may not be a good option in terms of steering control etc, but if you are overall more comfortable on the bike, then it could be a winner.

I have a long body so I can feel that a bike does not have enough reach, wider bars can counter that for me (with the other benefits as mentioned).

Bars are 780mm, wide enough I think

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

@Sander23, I went the following route when I tested various stem/spacer configurations.

1) Find the stem with the length you want to try to increase current reach e.g. 60 to 80mm.

2) Calculate stack height (steerer tube height - stem height).

3) From stack height, you will know what total spacer height you will need. Then buy a set of spacers (3mm, 5mm, 10mm, etc) that you can combine to get close to your stack height.

4) Total spacer height under the stem should be less than 40mm.

5) Always leave a 3mm gap between top of steering tube and top cap. Take a look at the photo below.

 

[Sander23]

I got some 5mm and 10mm spacers yesterday. The bike feels completely different. Before I get a new stem I'm gonna try out this one on different configurations.


Is this stem cap safe enough to use on spacers?

 

[sam.spoons]

The top flange on a top cap is usually flat not wedge shaped, I'm guessing it is that shape because of the shape of the top of the stem, I assume the thick side faces forward? If so the flat mating surface on top is recessed and you'll need a suitable spacer (not one of the wide ones) underneath or it will load the headset bearing unevenly. If that works then the cap should be fine but might look a bit odd.

I would go for a longer stem too if it feels too short, stems are pretty cheap. FWIW I'm 5' 6½" and find the 70mm stem on my small frame Urrun (reach is 395) too short but the internal cable routing goes through the stem and Orbea don't make a longer alternative I'm a bit stuck.

 

[Bestak CZ]

Hello, I have two Haibikes and I put longer stems on both of them. This Haibike stem doesn't have the top seating surface perpendicular to the fork post, so the spacers above the stem won't seat straight with their entire bottom surface, it will flex and not have the needed strength, which is wrong. The stem cap has an inside diameter smaller than the inside diameter of the spacers, which makes it difficult to center the cap. Because of the cable I had to use a PRO Koryak Di2 stem

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Is this stem cap safe enough to use on spacers?

If you plan to use standard spacers, I'd suggest to get a stem with a flat top, and use a regular top cap. Basically use only compatible stem, spacers and top cap components.

Some time ago I fitted my Moterra with a new stem from Hope and used standard spacers and top cap from Wolftooth. Very happy with this setup.

 

[sam.spoons]

Hello, I have two Haibikes and I put longer stems on both of them. This Haibike stem doesn't have the top seating surface perpendicular to the fork post, so the spacers above the stem won't seat straight with their entire bottom surface, it will flex and not have the needed strength, which is wrong. The stem cap has an inside diameter smaller than the inside diameter of the spacers, which makes it difficult to center the cap. Because of the cable I had to use a PRO Koryak Di2 stem

Good point, I suspect the top seating surface on the OP's stem is flat and parallel to the bottom (why would it not be?) but is recessed which is why the top cap is wedge shaped, to fill the recess neatly. If a spacer won't fit in the recess then, obviously, you can't flip the stem as it won't seat correctly. The top cap is there to preload the headset bearings and once the clamp bolts are done up tight should not really be necessary. That said I still wouldn't ride without one.

Just to make it clear I was suggesting trying inverting the stem to test the riding position not as a permanent solution.

 

[EMTB Dude]

I changed my Haibike stem from 50mm to 35mm long.
Just used new spacers and top cap with no issues since fitting about 18 months ago

 

[1oldfart]

Maybe you might try pulling your saddle back a little?