SRAM Transmission - GX vs XO

[Mikerb]

I think some folk are being blinded by marketing BS! Frankly I am amazed that the price for "T" transmission is not enough to turn potential buyers away.
The original AXS (GX) delivers exceptional smooth shifting and there is a very good reason for that, and it all comes down to the difference between electrical and mechanical shifting. With the electrical system the entire instruction to the rear mech to move a specified distance is a fraction of a second..........and the instruction is not "progressive" as it is when actuating a cable via a lever.
From what I can see "T" adds nothing further to this. Both the original AXS and "T" then have to push the chain against ramps on each cog to move from one cog to another. How smooth that change can be largely depends on the difference in size of the 2 cogs concerned. Other factors impacting on that change are the chainline, mech set up ( B Stop) and cleanliness of the chain and cassette. When all of those factors are right, changing under load in AXS is also quiet and without drama.
If "T" was the great advance it claims to be it would firstly not be 12 speed ( but then that would go against the Eagle norm). 12 speed is not needed on an EMTB, and it creates huge angulation of the chain at either end of the cassette causing excess wear to both chain and cassette. It would also not include a long cage mech even if it can absorb some knocks.

The advance we are waiting for in transmission is the MGU across major bike brands. "T" feels and sounds like a last ditch attempt by SRAM to squeeze more £/$ from the derailleur business before it becomes yesterdays news!!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

From what I can see "T" adds nothing further to this. Both the original AXS and "T" then have to push the chain against ramps on each cog to move from one cog to another. How smooth that change can be largely depends on the difference in size of the 2 cogs concerned.

Then you really need to try. T-Type is a significant difference in shifting. It’s smoother, less clunky, and also has a tighter clutch spring resulting in less chain slap and noise.

Shofting under power, especially to a harder gear is almost unnoticeable. The original AXS is good, but this is just better everywhere.

I have systems with both and the shifting difference is vast and immediately noticeable.

 

[Redders473]

Then you really need to try. T-Type is a significant difference in shifting. It’s smoother, less clunky, and also has a tighter clutch spring resulting in less chain slap and noise.

Shofting under power, especially to a harder gear is almost unnoticeable. The original AXS is good, but this is just better everywhere.

I have systems with both and the shifting difference is vast and immediately noticeable.

I don't agree with unnoticeable shifting under power, mine makes something horrible noises when shifting down gears and 2 snapped chains is annoying as well.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I don't agree with unnoticeable shifting under power, mine makes something horrible noises when shifting down gears and 2 snapped chains is annoying as well.

Something doesn’t sound right there

 

[Nomad1]

I think some folk are being blinded by marketing BS! Frankly I am amazed that the price for "T" transmission is not enough to turn potential buyers away.
The original AXS (GX) delivers exceptional smooth shifting and there is a very good reason for that, and it all comes down to the difference between electrical and mechanical shifting. With the electrical system the entire instruction to the rear mech to move a specified distance is a fraction of a second..........and the instruction is not "progressive" as it is when actuating a cable via a lever.
From what I can see "T" adds nothing further to this. Both the original AXS and "T" then have to push the chain against ramps on each cog to move from one cog to another. How smooth that change can be largely depends on the difference in size of the 2 cogs concerned. Other factors impacting on that change are the chainline, mech set up ( B Stop) and cleanliness of the chain and cassette. When all of those factors are right, changing under load in AXS is also quiet and without drama.
If "T" was the great advance it claims to be it would firstly not be 12 speed ( but then that would go against the Eagle norm). 12 speed is not needed on an EMTB, and it creates huge angulation of the chain at either end of the cassette causing excess wear to both chain and cassette. It would also not include a long cage mech even if it can absorb some knocks.

The advance we are waiting for in transmission is the MGU across major bike brands. "T" feels and sounds like a last ditch attempt by SRAM to squeeze more £/$ from the derailleur business before it becomes yesterdays news!!

Truth is the T is an advancement over the previous AXS and being a 12speed is not a bad thing but, the gear box has merit to. The the whole notion 12 speed doesn't belong on emtb is foolish. That is not say other numbers of gears wouldn't work well.

 

[mustclime]

It blows my mind people would buy that over priced electric stuff. 12 speed chains suck, e bike just destroy them. Then you look at replacing the over priced cassette and chain rings….when my cassette goes full shark tooth I will be getting the Box wide nine…..parts are cheaper and nine speeds last longer…


The whole system costs less than most 12 speed cassettes

 

[Romney]

I have been riding a gx t-type for about 300 miles now and it works. ( not looking forward to any snapped chains though so I will be watching my gx t-type chain ). My ride is a levo gen 3 comp alloy.

 

[Nomad1]

I don't agree with unnoticeable shifting under power, mine makes something horrible noises when shifting down gears and 2 snapped chains is annoying as w

I have been riding a gx t-type for about 300 miles now and it works. ( not looking forward to any snapped chains though so I will be watching my gx t-type chain ). My ride is a levo gen 3 comp alloy.

I'm pretty sure you'll find that with a properly set up setup system that is maintain your likely hood of snapping a chain very low!

 

[Redders473]

I'm pretty sure you'll find that with a properly set up setup system that is maintain your likely hood of snapping a chain very low!

I throughly clean and lube my bike after everyride. I'm not bad mouthing T type i do really like it. I'm just saying i keep eating chains and i don't understand why it's doing it. I'm going to do a full re install this morning. It shifts fine in the stand and does most of the time while riding but you can tell when it's going to happen. It sounds like mech can't find sit in a gear properly and then you get the dreaded boom and the chains gone.

 

[rzr]

I think some folk are being blinded by marketing BS! Frankly I am amazed that the price for "T" transmission is not enough to turn potential buyers away.

I'm surprised as well, the best drivetrain for eMTB is Shimano 11s (SLX/XT M7/8000 or new Linkglide), everything more expensive is just plain stupid (especially if you can destroy it in a few months).

 

[Nomad1]

I throughly clean and lube my bike after everyride. I'm not bad mouthing T type i do really like it. I'm just saying i keep eating chains and i don't understand why it's doing it. I'm going to do a full re install this morning. It shifts fine in the stand and does most of the time while riding but you can tell when it's going to happen. It sounds like mech can't find sit in a gear properly and then you get the dreaded boom and the chains gone.

something isn't right for it to be breaking chains. Either there's a defect with your system it's setup wrong etc. Another words it's got to be something that is causing it not just the system eats chains.

 

[Nomad1]

I'm surprised as well, the best drivetrain for eMTB is Shimano 11s (SLX/XT M7/8000 or new Linkglide), everything more expensive is just plain stupid (especially if you can destroy it in a few months).

I run both and my xt will eat a cassette faster than my Sram both have merit' Ford is better than Chevy or is Chey is better than Ford

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I'm surprised as well, the best drivetrain for eMTB is Shimano 11s (SLX/XT M7/8000 or new Linkglide), everything more expensive is just plain stupid (especially if you can destroy it in a few months).

What do you mean by best?! Your personal favourite, or the best performing? Longest lasting, or best shifting performance, etc.

Have you tried all the drivetrains on the market?

 

[mustclime]

OMG! Who said anything about braking chains? I was talking about chain “ stretch“ ,not braking chains. To be clear, chains don’t stretch, they wear out and they get longer as they wear. Chains have 4 parts, pins, rollers, inner plates and outer plates. All of the parts wear and as the wear, the chain gets longer. Why does this matter? A longer steel chain grinds your chain ring and cassette cogs wider. Wait to long and you are forced to replace everything once you chain starts jumping over the worn teeth. As the industry increased the number of gears, every thing got smaller and thinner. Look at a 8 or 9 speed chain, everything is thicker and stronger. The chain on my Kenevo expert was beyond acceptable wear in 500 miles… that was 7 weeks for me. I am trying to keep the cassette useful for 4 chain replacements. When the $300 cassette is done I will be going to a wide 9 drive train.

 

[rzr]

What do you mean by best?! Your personal favourite, or the best performing? Longest lasting, or best shifting performance, etc.

of course it's mine personal best combination of 3 things: durability-performance-price
Shimano 11s mech + Sunrace 11-46 (I'll try Linkglide in a future)

(and yes, i tried other as well, I can agree that they work better (performance) when they are new)

 

[rzr]

I run both and my xt will eat a cassette faster than my Sram both have merit' Ford is better than Chevy or is Chey is better than Ford

hm? i did 3000km on Sunrace 11-46 cassette and one XT chain (forgot to rotate) and it still worked. and i don't ride easy.

 

[Mikerb]

Many of us ride in conditions that cover the drivetrain in either fine gritty dust in the summer of mud and grime on the winter so even with regular cleaning and lube it is inevitable the components will wear quite quickly. Those fortunate to ride in mostly dry hard pack are possibly the best off in that respect. Add to that the forces on the transmission by an EMTB and of course what we should be seeing from the industry is far more robust and preferably lower cost drivetrain components. With SRAM specifically it has gone the other way. I use DT Swiss hybrid wheelsets/hubs with steel ratchet system freewheel. The entire design is focused on strength and reliability. I use SRAM steel chainwheels, and I believe AXS contributes to lower wear...............so far so good! But then I have a totally uneccessary 12 speed cassette. Even for the steepest climbs gear 10 is usually the best compromise between power and traction...........and I dont ride any tarmac so rarely use gears higher than 2 or 3. Whilst AXS is good, it is still a long cage mech which for the sort of terrain typically of MTB is a joke!! Finally the chain is typically only good for 500 miles.
I accept all of this for what it is but that does not mean I am blind to how much better it could be if the industry was genuinely committed to replacing 100 year technology with something better. (Original derailleur C 1930!!)

 

[Nomad1]

OMG! Who said anything about braking chains? I was talking about chain “ stretch“ ,not braking chains. To be clear, chains don’t stretch, they wear out and they get longer as they wear. Chains have 4 parts, pins, rollers, inner plates and outer plates. All of the parts wear and as the wear, the chain gets longer. Why does this matter? A longer steel chain grinds your chain ring and cassette cogs wider. Wait to long and you are forced to replace everything once you chain starts jumping over the worn teeth. As the industry increased the number of gears, every thing got smaller and thinner. Look at a 8 or 9 speed chain, everything is thicker and stronger. The chain on my Kenevo expert was beyond acceptable wear in 500 miles… that was 7 weeks for me. I am trying to keep the cassette useful for 4 chain replacements. When the $300 cassette is done I will be going to a wide 9 drive train.

your getting chain wear like that in 500 miles wow!

 

[rzr]

just maintain your chain. 'thinner' chain doesn't get weaker, rollers have the same size and thinner chain in fact works better with crossovers.
I guess it depends on conditions, as I mentioned before, my XT chain still worked (and cassette) after 3000km (And I ride mainly up and down), however was stretched to that 1% limit.

 

[Nomad1]

hm? i did 3000km on Sunrace 11-46 cassette and one XT chain (forgot to rotate) and it still worked. and i don't ride easy.

I run ten tooth and the sram cassette will last longer but, the xt shifted better now with my new AXS XX transmission while it's different and slower the XT doesn't shift better( I have the XTR shifter so it can shift 3 gears at once)

 

[Dave_B]

I’ve ridden XO and GX on the same bike. There is zero difference.

 

[mustclime]

your getting chain wear like that in 500 miles wow!

I strongly recommend every e bike owner pickup a tool gauge. The chain stretches by .75, you toss it and get another. You don’t, you end up needing a new cassette and maybe a front chain ring. On my real mountain bike, I get over 1000 miles out of a chain. On an e bike you are adding 20 lbs of bike and 90 Nm of torque. 12 speed chains suck, they cost more and don’t last as long. Good if you sell chains, not so good if you are buying them every couple of months. Look up the price of a 9 speed sometime, they are 20-70% cheaper than a 12 speed chain for the new sram transmission. Just saying.

 

[Redders473]

I think my cassettes done think it's done around 1200 miles XO transmission. Shifts fine but skips under hard load in some gears and it's had 2 chains on it both changed at .75 and one brand new one that it's skipping on.

 

[mustclime]

I think my cassettes done think it's done around 1200 miles XO transmission. Shifts fine but skips under hard load in some gears and it's had 2 chains on it both changed at .75 and one brand new one that it's skipping on.

Yea, you start jumping gears under load, the cassette is done, you can get a little more mileage out of it by putting the old chain on. I have had some really stupid painful crashes with a chain jumping under load so when the chain starts jumping I replace the cassette.

 

[Mikerb]

Yea, you start jumping gears under load, the cassette is done, you can get a little more mileage out of it by putting the old chain on. I have had some really stupid painful crashes with a chain jumping under load so when the chain starts jumping I replace the cassette.

most seem to recommend changing a 12 speed chain at 0.5% rather than 0.75%...............apart from SRAM themselves....but then they want to sell more cassettes!!

 

[Nomad1]

I strongly recommend every e bike owner pickup a tool gauge. The chain stretches by .75, you toss it and get another. You don’t, you end up needing a new cassette and maybe a front chain ring. On my real mountain bike, I get over 1000 miles out of a chain. On an e bike you are adding 20 lbs of bike and 90 Nm of torque. 12 speed chains suck, they cost more and don’t last as long. Good if you sell chains, not so good if you are buying them every couple of months. Look up the price of a 9 speed sometime, they are 20-70% cheaper than a 12 speed chain for the new sram transmission. Just saying.

View attachment 130885

 

[Nomad1]

12 speed does not suck and those are the result your get for you but, other get different results it depends on conditions shifting lube and a host of other things. The 9 speed may work better for you and some but for other not so much. I personally went from a stock 10speed on my 2020 stance E2 to a 12speed in the end(10-45). I have AXS XX 12peed on my Reign E2. The point is that going with a 9 speed may work great for some and other 12 or other something different. Oh and by the way my E2's are real MTB's well EMTB's.

 

[Nomad1]

I’ve ridden XO and GX on the same bike. There is zero difference.

you have have felt no noticeable different but there is a difference it's not zero

 

[Dave_B]

Just telling you how it feels on the bike…..pretty sure the only ‘difference’ is materials. The motor/servo is the same. Cassette might be heavier etc, but riding performance, zero difference.

 

[Nomad1]

Just telling you how it feels on the bike…..pretty sure the only ‘difference’ is materials. The motor/servo is the same. Cassette might be heavier etc, but riding performance, zero difference.

All I'm saying is that actually there is a difference performance wise weather one feels it or not how much that is may be very little but. yes the motor/servo is the same