SRAM EX1 - time to go...

[Dawnrazor]

I don't know about anyone else's experience with the EX1 groupset but mine has been mixed. At first it changed smoothly even under pressure - I'm a big guy and put a lot of power through the chain. It started to jump and I changed the chain before it really needed it. With a new chain on - 200 miles later and the rear cassette is now so worn it jumps regularly out of gear.

In total I have covered 1200 miles in about 8 months. I don't know how long a cassette on a regular MTB would last for? TBH I had hoped for longer.

I have decided to replace the whole groupset for 11 speed XTR. I think the lack of mid-range gears of the EX1 means you end up wearing them more - especially if you spin a lot.

Be interesting to hear how others are getting on with it.

 

[AJR]

1200 miles on a chain and cassette seems good to me.

 

[Gary]

At first it changed smoothly even under pressure - I'm a big guy and put a lot of power through the chain. It started to jump and I changed the chain before it really needed it. With a new chain on - 200 miles later and the rear cassette is now so worn it jumps regularly out of gear.

Avoid shifting under load at all cost.
soft pedal and allow the assist to drop before each press of the shift lever. not only will your shifts be crisper and cleaner but your chain and cassette will last far far longer.

also If you find yourself grinding in too high a gear and needing to change down (to a larger sprocket) under load DON'T! instead bump the assist up one level and get it spinning again and gain a little momentum. then ease off and shift smoothly under no load. That's one of the plusses of having assist modes.

I agree less sprockets INCREASES wear on individual sprockets (espescially the smaller tooth ones).
If going 11 spd XTR cassette is just an extravagance.
Unless you really just want top of the range components a £35 SLX will perform and last just the same as XTR and there's also not a lot of difference between an XT and XTR mech in function. XTR shifters are nicer though.

 

[Gary]

I don't know how long a cassette on a regular MTB would last for?

2-3000miles usually for me. (I never swap chains, just run everything until it slips and replace the lot)
my original XT/SLX 11speed has done 1600 miles and still on the original chain and is still not worn anywhere near slipping.
ridden all weather. but always cleaned/lubed after every proper ride.

 

[Dawnrazor]

That's useful info Gary, Cheers. - BTW - I never shift under load and spin rather than grind, I just meant when you have big legs you can output a fair bit of force. Always clean and lube mine too -which is why a bit disappointed with 1200 miles.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Dawnrazor: My apologies in advance if you know all this, but I have given up assuming that people know this stuff.
Do you measure chain wear from time to time? As the chain wears the pitch gets longer (ie it appears to have stretched). Then you have the problem of a chain with a pitch longer than half an inch trying to fit into gears with a half inch pitch. The rollers start to move up and down the faces of the gears instead of just sitting there. This accelerates the wear on the gears. The more worn the chain, the faster the wear on the gears. The message is to check the chain wear and change the cheap chain more frequently and make the more expensive cassette last longer. The gear teeth start to look like shark's fins and the root of the teeth gets flatter and longer. (I've got some pictures somewhere if you want to see them).

When you put a new chain on a worn out cassette, if it runs at all, it wears the chain faster than it otherwise would, quite rapidly in fact. I once put a new chain on and the chain jumped on the cassette every time I put the power down. I re fitted the old chain and it ran OK. It was only OK (which is why I had changed it in the first place), but at least it ran and lasted long enough for me to get a new cassette. Then I refitted the new chain onto the new cassette.

 

[Dawnrazor]

Thanks Steve - yes I measure the chain stretch.

I think that EX1 is billed as an 'ebike' specific groupset so was just expecting a longer life from it.

 

[Stumpy]

I don't know about anyone else's experience with the EX1 groupset but mine has been mixed. At first it changed smoothly even under pressure - I'm a big guy and put a lot of power through the chain. It started to jump and I changed the chain before it really needed it. With a new chain on - 200 miles later and the rear cassette is now so worn it jumps regularly out of gear.

In total I have covered 1200 miles in about 8 months. I don't know how long a cassette on a regular MTB would last for? TBH I had hoped for longer.

I have decided to replace the whole groupset for 11 speed XTR. I think the lack of mid-range gears of the EX1 means you end up wearing them more - especially if you spin a lot.

Be interesting to hear how others are getting on with it.

My original XX1 died after about the 1200 miles (I’m 11 stone with one leg, so probably a bit lighter on my cranks ?) in the way you describe but I gave SRAM another try and invested in XX1 Eagle gold 1x12 with gripshift. So far so good and so much better than the XX1 it’s replaced, but.... it’s early days

 

[nicklej]

Yes, heard a lot of mixed things about the EX1 set up. A lot of things that are branded as e-bike specific don't really tend to live up to their claims as often as people hope so I haven't bothered investing down that route.

I just got another cassette today and am replacing my chainring with it which have seen about 4000 miles so far. The chain just get's swapped when it begins to slip and I rarely do any maintenance on the bike other than degrease the drivechain often.

 

[Tamas]

GX11 speed cassette @3700km with two PC1110 chains and still going strong. I'm pretty 'light' on the drive train no shifting under load and my pedaling style is spinning - using all gears - rather than smashing.

 

[nicklej]

GX11 speed cassette @3700km with two PC1110 chains and still going strong. I'm pretty 'light' on the drive train no shifting under load and my pedaling style is spinning - using all gears - rather than smashing.

I've adopted your PC1110 "strategy" I was using a sunrace 11-42 cassette but just got another SRAM PG one today. For the miles I do, any cost less than my motorbike is good value

 

[Tamas]

I've adopted your PC1110 "strategy" I was using a sunrace 11-42 cassette but just got another SRAM PG one today. For the miles I do, any cost less than my motorbike is good value

It worked out for me perfectly so I'll stick with it in the foreseeable future... nothing can beat a 10€ chain

 

[Indigo]

I have decided to replace the whole groupset for 11 speed XTR.

The new Shimano XTR M9100 is all new technology (a complete redesign). It even requires a special chain that is incompatible with anything else. There is currently no XT equivalent (we will likely have to wait to 2020 for the technology to filter down to XT).

To upgrade to it, you would need to also change the rear hub, derailleur and shifter. Biggest advantage would be being able to shift up or down whilst under power and is e-bike compatible.

Here is a good long term review that also includes a good video review:
The Late Shift: Shimano XTR M9100 Reviewed | BIKE Magazine

 

[Gary]

XTR M9100 is 12 speed. He's talking about fitting 11 speed XTR

 

[Indigo]

XTR M9100 is 12 speed. He's talking about fitting 11 speed XTR

There is an 11 speed variant. Detail below was copied from here.

XTR M9100 offers three 1x options and one 2x option.

• 1x12 with a 10-51t cassette
• 1x12 with a 10-45t cassette
• 1x11 with a 10-45t cassette
• 2x12 with a 10-45t cassette

CS-M9110-11 11-speed cassette
Last on the list of 1x options is the 1x11 drivetrain. Weight weenies, this is the drivetrain for you.

This 11-speed 10-45t system uses the 12-speed 10-51t cassette minus the 51t cog.

The purpose of this drivetrain is to maximize weight savings. According to Shimano, the lack of the 51t granny gear saves 57g; the short-cage GS rear derailleur saves 3g, and a chain that’s shorter by six links saves 20g for a total weight saving of 80g over the Wide Range 12-speed group.

• 11-speed 10-45t cassette claimed weight: 310g
• Price: £249.99 / $324.99

SCYLENCE freehub system
...
There’s also a dedicated version of the XTR hub, FH-M9125-B that is designed specifically for the lightweight 1x11 group. The driveside flange sits 4.7mm outboard compared to the 12-speed compatible rear hub, allowing for more balanced spoke tension.

 

[Gary]

My point was older 11 speed M9000 XTR is compatible with M8000/M7000 XT/SLX etc.

a M9100 shimano cassette requires a new microspline hub/freehub to accomodate the new 10t smallest sprocket cassettes on the 9100 group.
Sorry I assumed this would be what Dawnrazor was contemplating seeing as he's changing from EX-1 (HG standard feehub, same as m9000 uses)

 

[Dawnrazor]

My point was older 11 speed M9000 XTR is compatible with M8000/M7000 XT/SLX etc.

a M9100 shimano cassette requires a new microspline hub/freehub to accomodate the new 10t smallest sprocket cassettes on the 9100 group.
Sorry I assumed this would be what Dawnrazor was contemplating seeing as he's changing from EX-1 (HG standard feehub, same as m9000 uses)

Yes that's right I want to keep the existing hub. All great info though

 

[Stevfro99]

I don't know about anyone else's experience with the EX1 groupset but mine has been mixed. At first it changed smoothly even under pressure - I'm a big guy and put a lot of power through the chain. It started to jump and I changed the chain before it really needed it. With a new chain on - 200 miles later and the rear cassette is now so worn it jumps regularly out of gear.

In total I have covered 1200 miles in about 8 months. I don't know how long a cassette on a regular MTB would last for? TBH I had hoped for longer.

I have decided to replace the whole groupset for 11 speed XTR. I think the lack of mid-range gears of the EX1 means you end up wearing them more - especially if you spin a lot.

Be interesting to hear how others are getting on with it.

My EX1 shifter has broken after 40 miles of use!! Had to pay out for a new one fitting which was relatively cheap but the fact is its 40 miles old, I'm the same as you being a heavier rider on an 8 speed is a little to much, i shall be upgrading when something goes wrong again the the 11 speed system

 

[Dawnrazor]

New 11 speed XTR is working a dream - Local bike shop also replaced my noisy Bosch motor with a brand new one (under warranty) It's like a new bike - Happy Days!

 

[Tim29]

That's useful info Gary, Cheers. - BTW - I never shift under load and spin rather than grind, I just meant when you have big legs you can output a fair bit of force. Always clean and lube mine too -which is why a bit disappointed with 1200 miles.

Not seeing good mileage from the x8,
Have had to warranty replace 2 of them now in less then a 100 miles on customers bikes.
Specially the alum large rear chain ring model.
The 8 speed just has to big of gaps and labors to shift.

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

You know what I will say- do you really use use the lagest 2 or3 cogs?

Anyways it will good to see if the carbon spider last ok. Are all the cogs titanium on this model, only half are on my 9 speed m970 cassettes.

Let us know you get on with it, I am still using the 105 cassette 11-34 which shifts really sweetly due to the closer ratios

 

[Dax]

You know what I will say- do you really use use the lagest 2 or3 cogs?

Yes, quite a lot. Maybe you're fitter, riding up less steep stuff, or using more assist.

 

[Tim29]

If i have my 36 up front i use the big rear on many of my climbs here. Even in high power.
If i have to 32 up front only use it in low power or no power

 

[hokkane4]

Not really belonging to this topic, but I ask anyway as there is already discussion about chainrings. Has anyone found any other than 34T and 38T teeth chainrings for Shimano Steps E8000?

I'm doing lot of steep climbs where I'm riding and feel that the smallest gear could be even "smaller" (currently casette 46, 34T chainring). I think it would also help for better battery run time to keep cadence higher. Specially in long climbs in Alps on coming summer. Also I never use last 2 gears on casette as bike is restricted to 25mkh. So I think the stock gearing is way too long (for my use).

 

[Tamas]

Not really belonging to this topic, but I ask anyway as there is already discussion about chainrings. Has anyone found any other than 34T and 38T teeth chainrings for Shimano Steps E8000?

I'm doing lot of steep climbs where I'm riding and feel that the smallest gear could be even "smaller" (currently casette 46, 34T chainring). I think it would also help for better battery run time to keep cadence higher. Specially in long climbs in Alps on coming summer. Also I never use last 2 gears on casette as bike is restricted to 25mkh. So I think the stock gearing is way too long (for my use).

I'm using a regular 32T 104BCD narrow-wide chainring on my E8000 and it works great. It's a cheap aluminum Superstar 'Raptor' chainring not steel as the original Shimano but holds up well after more than 2000km. There are stainless steel 32T chainrings too but they cost 3-4x more than the Superstar and even if it would last longer I didn't want to pay that much for it.

 

[hokkane4]

Thanks, so any "104BCD" chainring would work then?

 

[Tamas]

Thanks, so any "104BCD" chainring would work then?

Yes.

 

[Tim29]

Thanks, so any "104BCD" chainring would work then?

Also, if you look at electric motor theory and , physics. Load vs RPM determine battery draw.
Example but not 100% accurate
100rpm trail mode will use same power then boost mode at 50rpm
Do your own test. Ride 10 mile loop at 90+ rpm then do same loop at 50-60rpm.

 

[hokkane4]

Do your own test. Ride 10 mile loop at 90+ rpm then do same loop at 50-60rpm.

Could you educate me (and safe from testing effort) by telling us your results? I have no accurate test methods to measure motor power consumption and also no knowledge of Shimano motor mapping for each power mode and user input(cadence and power).

 

[Gary]

Could you educate me (and safe from testing effort) by telling us your results?

holy grail of battery range with a Shimano e8000 steps motor attained. AKA: how to get 10+ miles and 2200+ ft out of one battery bar - EMTB Forums