Speedbox. With Bosch performance CX with a kiox display

[gearfreak]

Hi I've just picked up a second hand performance CX with a kiox display

I want to chip it with a speedbox. I've done it before with a trek powerfly


Just not sure if the kiox with the econnect Bosch app and the flow app would realise and stop the chip. I haven't connected the motor to either app yet


The apps look really good but I Def want to chip the motor.


Help please

 

[Stihldog]

The apps look really good but I Def want to chip the motor.
Help please

I honestly don’t know. Whenever I took my Bosch CX to the LBS (Trek) the mechanics would always ask if a speed-box is installed before they started a firmware update. I’m not sure if the Kiox detects a speed-box. I’ve never used one, but I have seen a couple that were DOA on the trails.

I certainly understand the need to increase speed if I lived in the EU. In North America (Canada), the speed limit is 32km per hour. IMO that’s reasonable. I don’t need any more than that for the trails/Mountian that I ride.

I feel that the lower speed limits in the EU drives the speed-box market.

 

[gearfreak]

Ok thanks. I agree I have a 5 year old trek powerfly that I chipped. It transforms the bike. I am a retired 66 yr old and ride safely 15.5 mph is too slow

 

[arTNC]

I honestly don’t know. Whenever I took my Bosch CX to the LBS (Trek) the mechanics would always ask if a speed-box is installed before they started a firmware update. I’m not sure if the Kiox detects a speed-box. I’ve never used one, but I have seen a couple that were DOA on the trails.

I certainly understand the need to increase speed if I lived in the EU. In North America (Canada), the speed limit is 32km per hour. IMO that’s reasonable. I don’t need any more than that for the trails/Mountian that I ride.

I feel that the lower speed limits in the EU drives the speed-box market.

I'm not sure how Bosch sets the top speed on the CX motor, and I've heard it's the same globally...but I can't confirm that. In my case on my Trek Rail 7, the top speed is/was 25 km/hr...translates to 15.5 mph for us yanks...LOL! I found this unacceptable for mountain biking. I am no Ned Overend or Greg Minnaar, but the bike would start cutting power at 16 mph. I bought a pedal assist bike to be able to maintain my speed as I've gotten older. Even now I can exceed that 15.5 mph limit in many situations on the trails I ride and not extreme downhills.

I couldn't stand it, so I got a VOLspeed unit and set my top limit at 25.4 mph...a little less than the 28 mph limit this unit has built in. It has been awesome. I know the Speedbox unit allows a higher top speed, but I think this is a bit unrealistic for actual trail riding...and probably beyond the capability of the motor. I have obviously exceeded 25.4 mph on the Rail, bit it was due to gravity on dirt roads and straight, smooth, steep singletrack.

So far on the simpler Purion CX combination...not the smart system or kiox...as long as the speed was toggled back to the OEM 15.5 mph, the Bosch software connection doesn't seem to notice anything amiss. It may also be fine with the speed set at the higher level, but I don't want to tempt fate.

I had a Bafang BBSHD mid-drive on an older Santa Cruz Bullit that would break 40 mph on pavement when set to the highest possible power outputs, but I didn't need or want that kind of speed potential for actual mountain biking.

 

[GlenMcD]

hi gearfreak, I have CX, Kiox 300 and have similar desires for greater speed. While I'm certainly interested in speedbox and thus how it goes for you, I'm also looking at alternatives that I'd be happy to share in PM. Speedbox 1.1 or 1.1B seems to be the solution of choice right now however my bike is a week old, it's clear that Bosch have intentions of serious development using their over the air updates and I get the sense that they may continue with anti speedup moves. I hope not. I had my old ebike for 6 years, did 10K KMs on it (I'm 65yo now), and it had no limiter, although I suspect it was only 200 watts. In ways it was more fun than my new Cube / Bosch Hybrid but I know it doesn't have to be this way.

 

[gearfreak]

Hi. I'm 66. And had my old trek powerfly for 5 years and it was chipped by me with speedbox and loved it and never had a single problem. Done 8500 miles and it's still going strong. Have contacted local supplier and they have recommended volspeed v4. So I've bought that and will fit and let you know how it goes

 

[gearfreak]

Oh. It's the EU. That has told Bosch it has to stop deristricting so in some respect their hands are tied

 

[Sander23]

I have the non smart version deristricted with a bikespeed rs chip and use the app to record stuff.
No problems at all

 

[gearfreak]

Cheers. That's what I've been told too.

 

[Eagleboy64]

I have a Bosch smart system powered bike. 11 days ago I had a Speedbox 1.1 fitted and within 24 hours had a motor manipulation error come up and my bike went into limp mode. The LBS cleared it the next day and back in business. What caused that error was me turning it off too soon. I followed the written instructions that came with the Speedbox but unfortunately they a critical step in the process of explaining what to do. Anyway I know what to actually do now. 3 days later my bike went into limp mode again this time with no error code showing. Took it to my bike shop where he plugged in the diagnostic tool to clear the limp mode. When he attempted that the error code showed up and he could not clear it. He e-mailed Speedbox asking for help and about what to do when the diagnostic tool couldn't clear it and we got no answer to that question but told that it should be able to clear it, which it didn't. My only option left was to ride it for 90 minutes in limp mode. That has cleared the code. The instructions that come form Speedbox recommend you not ride above 35kph to lessen the chance of error codes, but in NZ where our motors assist to 32kph that defeats the whole purpose of spending $375 for 3kph increase. I am hopeful that this doesn't continue and so will test it for another couple of weeks. If it faults 1 or 2 more times in the next 2 weeks I will return it and save up for an upgraded bike with a Speed version of the Bosch that goes 45kph stock standard. Hopefully it works now and I wont need to go down that track. I will keep you posted.

 

[Eagleboy64]

Update: Cleared the Cleared error 2 x times now by riding in limp mode for 90 minutes. Yesterday got the error again for 4th time in total now. Seens to happen if I ride it around 40kph for 45 minutes. Speedbox suggested I get newer software for the bike as it has the original software that would have between loaded in may 2023. Trying that this week. Once done I will ride fast for 45 minutes to test abd if it faults ine more time will have the speedbox removed for obvious reasons. Will update.

 

[JP-NZ]

I have a Bosch smart system powered bike. 11 days ago I had a Speedbox 1.1 fitted and within 24 hours had a motor manipulation error come up and my bike went into limp mode. The LBS cleared it the next day and back in business. What caused that error was me turning it off too soon. I followed the written instructions that came with the Speedbox but unfortunately they a critical step in the process of explaining what to do. Anyway I know what to actually do now. 3 days later my bike went into limp mode again this time with no error code showing. Took it to my bike shop where he plugged in the diagnostic tool to clear the limp mode. When he attempted that the error code showed up and he could not clear it. He e-mailed Speedbox asking for help and about what to do when the diagnostic tool couldn't clear it and we got no answer to that question but told that it should be able to clear it, which it didn't. My only option left was to ride it for 90 minutes in limp mode. That has cleared the code. The instructions that come form Speedbox recommend you not ride above 35kph to lessen the chance of error codes, but in NZ where our motors assist to 32kph that defeats the whole purpose of spending $375 for 3kph increase. I am hopeful that this doesn't continue and so will test it for another couple of weeks. If it faults 1 or 2 more times in the next 2 weeks I will return it and save up for an upgraded bike with a Speed version of the Bosch that goes 45kph stock standard. Hopefully it works now and I wont need to go down that track. I will keep you posted.

Where do you ride a Rail 7 that you need to go faster than 32kph? I presume your commuting

As for your idea on getting a bike that has a Bosch speed motor, they are not avalible on MTB's and will only ever be on commuter bikes.

 

[Eagleboy64]

Where do you ride a Rail 7 that you need to go faster than 32kph? I presume your commuting

As for your idea on getting a bike that has a Bosch speed motor, they are not avalible on MTB's and will only ever be on commuter bikes.

Not sure where you got the idea that I have this on my Trek Rail 7. I have it on my Riese and Muller MultiCharger and almost all Riese and Muller bikes sold in NZ can be brought with the speed motor as an option which assists them up to 45kph. Perfectly legal in NZ.

 

[arTNC]

Where do you ride a Rail 7 that you need to go faster than 32kph? I presume your commuting

As for your idea on getting a bike that has a Bosch speed motor, they are not avalible on MTB's and will only ever be on commuter bikes.

Just to be sure, you consider 32 kph as something only occurring while commuting...so only on pavement? I'm a 72 year old guy who just today rode our 14 mile local trail that has some challenging stuff in it, and has sections where 32 kph...or just under 20 mph...isn't some crazy, insane speed occurrence. Do I understand that correctly? I have a Rail 7 BTW. Mine has a VOLspeed tuning unit attached because shutting off at 15-16 mph was ridiculous...and I don't ride on pavement or commute on this bike.

 

[Eagleboy64]

Just to be sure, you consider 32 kph as something only occurring while commuting...so only on pavement? I'm a 72 year old guy who just today rode our 14 mile local trail that has some challenging stuff in it, and has sections where 32 kph...or just under 20 mph...isn't some crazy, insane speed occurrence. Do I understand that correctly? I have a Rail 7 BTW. Mine has a VOLspeed tuning unit attached because shutting off at 15-16 mph was ridiculous...and I don't ride on pavement or commute on this bike.

Is your Trek Rail 7 a smart system one or the one before that?

 

[JP-NZ]

Not sure where you got the idea that I have this on my Trek Rail 7. I have it on my Riese and Muller MultiCharger and almost all Riese and Muller bikes sold in NZ can be brought with the speed motor as an option which assists them up to 45kph. Perfectly legal in NZ.

Just assumed sorry as you didn't specify. Yes Bosch speed is very common on commuters and cargo bikes such as your R&M

 

[arTNC]

Is your Trek Rail 7 a smart system one or the one before that?

Gen 2 with Purion display...not smart system. Not trying to be controversial but just under 20 mph for many sections of off road trail that we run into seemed a little low for the occasional straights or downgrade.

 

[Eagleboy64]

Gen 2 with Purion display...not smart system. Not trying to be controversial but just under 20 mph for many sections of off road trail that we run into seemed a little low for the occasional straights or downgrade.

I get it. I agree with you.

 

[JP-NZ]

Gen 2 with Purion display...not smart system. Not trying to be controversial but just under 20 mph for many sections of off road trail that we run into seemed a little low for the occasional straights or downgrade.

I'm sure you know that you can pedal past the limiter, its not like ebikes are physically limted to the cutoff speeds. When I ride trails in our local bike park my average speed is above the limit but you don't need to pedal much on downhill trails.

 

[Eagleboy64]

I'm sure you know that you can pedal past the limiter, its not like ebikes are physically limted to the cutoff speeds. When I ride trails in our local bike park my average speed is above the limit but you don't need to pedal much on downhill trails.

Of course you can past past the limiter. The limiter only turns the assistance to zero. My Trek Rail 7 is a 2023 model and everybody including all the bike shops claim that the motor creates no resistance when you pedal with no power. My experience is that that is not the case. How I tested this is by accident. When I have run out of power completly and my bike has turned itself off I have found I can coast with no pedal input and it feels like there is no resistance as you would expect. Pretty much feels like a non ebike. But as soon as I start pedaling in the very same situation the bike slows down and it feels like a decent amount of resistance from the motor which my legs definitely feel and again as soon as I stop pedaling it feels freed up again and coasts freely. I suspect the action of pedaling with no power engages some form of drag form something in the motor. Most bike shop people think I am imagining it but no one has been interested in testing it for themselves. If you have a bosch motor of course you can test it for yourself. Just turn the bike off and pedal and judge for yourself.

 

[arTNC]

I'm sure you know that you can pedal past the limiter, its not like ebikes are physically limted to the cutoff speeds. When I ride trails in our local bike park my average speed is above the limit but you don't need to pedal much on downhill trails.

Sure...I love pedaling a 50+ pound bike past the limiter.

 

[sharkimano]

Hi I've just picked up a second hand performance CX with a kiox display

I want to chip it with a speedbox. I've done it before with a trek powerfly


Just not sure if the kiox with the econnect Bosch app and the flow app would realise and stop the chip. I haven't connected the motor to either app yet


The apps look really good but I Def want to chip the motor.


Help please

Hi There,
I am new to this forum so this is my first post/reply. I ordered the Speedbox 1.1b and eagerly looking forward to installing it on my Corratec with Bosch CX bike. However my question is: If I use the Flow App where the speed of the bike can be detected via GPS on the phone, will that cause error 504 ? Would it be better to just use the Speedbox App instead of Flow to reduce the risk of detection? I know this is a similar question but I am really curious about the answer too. Thanks.

 

[sharkimano]

Hi I've just picked up a second hand performance CX with a kiox display

I want to chip it with a speedbox. I've done it before with a trek powerfly


Just not sure if the kiox with the econnect Bosch app and the flow app would realise and stop the chip. I haven't connected the motor to either app yet


The apps look really good but I Def want to chip the motor.


Help please

I have the exact same question. Since Flow app knows the speed of the bike, will it send this info to the bike computer ? would it be better not to use the Flow app when Speedbox is installed ?

 

[GlenMcD]

Are you suggesting that the Flow app gets speed from somewhere other than the kiox, such as the GPS chip on the smartphone on which the Flow app is installed? I'm aware that it COULD do this but not that it actually does at present. Does anyone have an answer to this? Of course, even if it doesn't now, it could theoretically do this in the future AFAICS.

 

[sharkimano]

Are you suggesting that the Flow app gets speed from somewhere other than the kiox, such as the GPS chip on the smartphone on which the Flow app is installed? I'm aware that it COULD do this but not that it actually does at present. Does anyone have an answer to this? Of course, even if it doesn't now, it could theoretically do this in the future AFAICS.

I do not know but I am sure Kiox gets it from the Wheel sensor via Motor Controller. The question is, if they want to detect Tuning chip, they could compare it to the speed reported by the phone via GPS ?

 

[Eagleboy64]

Hi There,
I am new to this forum so this is my first post/reply. I ordered the Speedbox 1.1b and eagerly looking forward to installing it on my Corratec with Bosch CX bike. However my question is: If I use the Flow App where the speed of the bike can be detected via GPS on the phone, will that cause error 504 ? Would it be better to just use the Speedbox App instead of Flow to reduce the risk of detection? I know this is a similar question but I am really curious about the answer too. Thanks.

I put a Speedbox 1.1 on my Smart System Bosch CX motor on a Riese and Muller and got 5 motor manipulation errors within 5 weeks which put it into limp mode. For the first 3 of those I could clear the code by riding for 90 minutes in limp mode. For the last 2 times that didn't work and I took it back to the shop to get them to clear it with the Bosch software. Also note I am not using the app at all so it is not connected in anyway to the internet or bosch or any gps signal. I have a Kiox 300

 

[sharkimano]

I put a Speedbox 1.1 on my Smart System Bosch CX motor on a Riese and Muller and got 5 motor manipulation errors within 5 weeks which put it into limp mode. For the first 3 of those I could clear the code by riding for 90 minutes in limp mode. For the last 2 times that didn't work and I took it back to the shop to get them to clear it with the Bosch software. Also note I am not using the app at all so it is not connected in anyway to the internet or bosch or any gps signal. I have a Kiox 300

That is very concerning. I ordered Speedbox 1.1b (bluetooth) and plan to use it with Speedbox App rather than Flow. They say if you select max 35km and let it countdown to 0 after riding, you should not have a problem. As a side note I am very disappointed about this 25km limit in Europe which forces us to do this convoluted methods. I mean why non-e bikes can ride without restriction in city but not E-bikes ! The danger they pose is the same in either case. On a flat track 25km is too slow !

 

[Eagleboy64]

That is very concerning. I ordered Speedbox 1.1b (bluetooth) and plan to use it with Speedbox App rather than Flow. They say if you select max 35km and let it countdown to 0 after riding, you should not have a problem. As a side note I am very disappointed about this 25km limit in Europe which forces us to do this convoluted methods. I mean why non-e bikes can ride without restriction in city but not E-bikes ! The danger they pose is the same in either case. On a flat track 25km is too slow !

You may be alright at 35kph, but in NZ we can go 32kph without it so not much point here for an extra 3kph. The issue I had which hopefully you won't by using the speedbox app is that I had no idea what speed I was ever doing. The info from speedbox says that once you go above 22.0kph the last 2 digits become the actual speed but for me that was not the case on the kiox 300. Once above 22kph that last 2 digits were all over the show, constantly changing. And yes never turn it off yourself. Also a bit of an extra risk as i had to leave my kiox on the bike when going into a shop ùnless i was prepared to wait beside my bike for 10 minutes for the countdown to finish. I am going to upgrade my bike to a bosch speed motor version which allows us to go 45 kph legally

 

[sharkimano]

Is Bosch monitoring this thread ? All of a sudden the update Version 11.13.0 from Bosch causing problems with Speedbox chip. Did they just realize they can detect speed via Flow app from Phone GPS ? Better not use Flow app now ....

 

[Eagleboy64]

Is Bosch monitoring this thread ? All of a sudden the update Version 11.13.0 from Bosch causing problems with Speedbox chip. Did they just realize they can detect speed via Flow app from Phone GPS ? Better not use Flow app now ....

I was not using the flow app. So its nothing todo with the Flow App or GPS. The bosch motor software detects the speedbox on its own.