Specialized Levo - pedals not spinning freely in reverse

[lolp]

It has been doing htis intermittently for a few weeks and would release andd spin but now it won't - the motor works ok and the pedals in reverse run the chain backwards like on a regular bike but the pedals don't disengage and spin freely. so, how much of a problem is this and what can I do about it? Is it a diy job - I don't mind getting my hands dirty? - or a return to spesh job - its not under warranty coz I'm not the first owner!

 

[Paul Mac]

My 2018 Levo started to do this, but after a few pedal stokes it would release, don't know what causes it, but it never affected the running of the bike, in fact it made it easier to lube the chain

 

[lolp]

Thanks paul..i took the bike out for a 2 min spin after discovering this and it didnt free-up. Motor runs ok and hopefully it wont affect battery life. I just dont like it not functioning as it should?
But yes...it will make lubing the chain easier.
Anyone else got any ideas/experience of this????

 

[khorn]

Thanks paul..i took the bike out for a 2 min spin after discovering this and it didnt free-up. Motor runs ok and hopefully it wont affect battery life. I just dont like it not functioning as it should?
But yes...it will make lubing the chain easier.
Anyone else got any ideas/experience of this????

I have heard from other people that water/dirt can get into the bushing that sits between the drive axle and the flange that the chain ring spider sits on causing it to become concrete. You could try to take it apart(need special tools) and try to see if you can clean it out. I would still try to ask Specialized if they would cover it, you can only get a negative answer back.

Karsten

 

[Doogle]

Hi
I’ve got two levos bought late 2016 and early 2017 both have had similar problems
Mine gets used every day commuting to work off road and my wife’s is used twice a week at least The motors on both bikes become noisy and eventually fail
I’m on no 7 motor and no7 battery my wife is on battery no 2 and just had motor no3 fit
I’m on frame no 2 now
The service from specialized has been excellent but I’m fed up with taking them back
For the record I’ve never used a pressure washer
We are now looking to buy another two bikes as the Levos are out of warranty and I’m not sure what will happen next time
I’d be interested to know how much a motor is to buy
Best of luck

 

[Doomanic]

7th motor? And 7th battery? How many miles have you done?

 

[Oblivious]

Definitely would not try to open and clean yourself unless you bought the bike second hand. The major perk of buying a brand like Specialized is the premier dealer service to original purchaser. I’d bring it in for service immediately.

 

[caterhamnut]

I have a new chainring to fit to my '18 Levo - you mentioned 'special tools' above - will I need them to change the chainring - sorry, slightly off-topic...

 

[Al Boneta]

When the bike won’t roll backwards it’s usually the end of the motor. Just did a motor swap for a customer yesterday, that had the same problem, sure we would all like to have nothing go wrong, but they have taken care of everything my customers have had issues with. Parts wear out, parts can break and sometimes they wear out prematurely. No motor manufacturer or bike brand has the exclusive on that.

 

[Doogle]

I have a new chainring to fit to my '18 Levo - you mentioned 'special tools' above - will I need them to change the chainring - sorry, slightly off-topic...

Hi
It’s very easy to change a chainring I’ve done it a few times I bought the park tool to remove the spider but it’s not required
Take the pedal off the crank drop the chain remove the four chain ring bolts fiddle around with the now loose chainring and you will find it comes off
Reverse procedure
Have fun

7th motor? And 7th battery? How many miles have you done?

Hi
Lost count but probably more than most because I use it every day for work and weekends
The bikes have been used a lot and I would guess in more sh***y conditions than where they were designed for
One winter night ride over Ogden moor is equal to a three week holiday in the alps I recon in terms of how mucky the bike ends up
I might appear a bit miserable but I’m not
We love the bikes and the service from dealers and manufactures has been the best
Call me nuts but two more are a definite possibility
I would imagine any make would be the same or similar given the use they get
Cheers

 

[R120]

How many miles have you done on the bike? I know people who commute year round 25 miles a day on EBIKES, and have very little maintenance skills, and dont have those issues

 

[Doogle]

Hi
Sorry I don’t keep a note of the mileage ,I lost count
Most of the battery issues were the LED ‘s failing ,the battery worked ok but it didn’t show the charge status ,not a massive issue but specialized swapped them no problem
I don’t do 25 a day but it is mostly off road up a “kin” big hill generally wet and muddy
It’s a bit grim up north
All the riding is dales lakes and moorland
Apart from a few weeks in the alps
Great bits of kit
And let’s face it ,these are first world problems
I have been told I’m the only one with these issues but when we picked up two hire bikes in NZ with the same battery troubles it did make me smile a bit
Cheers

 

[lolp]

Thanks for the chat guys - I took off the chainring, motor covers etc but apart from some mud there was nothing in there that could be removed/cleaned without taking the motor apart which I won't do. I spoke to my local spesh dealer who hadn't heard of the problem but will speak to spesh on monday...watch this space!

Btw...The 'special' tool to remove the spider is a 60mm twin arm gear puller - worked a treat and you also need a lockring tool - both not so much special as 'specific'!

 

[Rocket Roche]

I have a 2017 Levo and on my 2nd motor the 1st one failed as you mentioned crank arms wouldn't spin backwards I was told the crank bearings were knackered as they get crap go past the seals and pack up, I don't pressure wash the bike to clean only use a light hose and brush. New motor fitted under warranty and said if it happens again and said it probably will as no bearing can last for ever it won't be replaced again under warranty? From memory I think they said a new motor is about £900 and if I wanted new bearings fitted they would have to send the motor back to specialized as they wouldn't attempt a bearing change themselves.

I thought a good while back that there was someone on the forum talking about taking the motor apart and fitting new bearings?

 

[khorn]

I have a 2017 Levo and on my 2nd motor the 1st one failed as you mentioned crank arms wouldn't spin backwards I was told the crank bearings were knackered as they get crap go past the seals and pack up, I don't pressure wash the bike to clean only use a light hose and brush. New motor fitted under warranty and said if it happens again and said it probably will as no bearing can last for ever it won't be replaced again under warranty? From memory I think they said a new motor is about £900 and if I wanted new bearings fitted they would have to send the motor back to specialized as they wouldn't attempt a bearing change themselves.

I thought a good while back that there was someone on the forum talking about taking the motor apart and fitting new bearings?

@Bearing Man maybe you can help here if Specialized doesn’t provide warranty?

Karsten

 

[lolp]

Hi bearing man...do you have the necessaty bearings? What is the cost?....and how much of a job is it to replace them?...is it a home mechanic job?
Cheers!

 

[ped]

It has been doing htis intermittently for a few weeks and would release andd spin but now it won't - the motor works ok and the pedals in reverse run the chain backwards like on a regular bike but the pedals don't disengage and spin freely. so, how much of a problem is this and what can I do about it? Is it a diy job - I don't mind getting my hands dirty? - or a return to spesh job - its not under warranty coz I'm not the first owner!

Hi lolp,
we have 4 levo bikes in our group. Recently we faced the same problem with 2 of our bikes.

Try this:
1. remove crank at the driveside.
2. place the bike elevated and horizontaly, driveside up. (you can use two chairs or tables to put the bike on. it is important that you can still move the crank at the brakeside)
3. apply some thin oil (i used forkoil 7.5) in the gap between inner and outer axle.
4. spin the crank at the brakeside backwards.

If you do not succeed after a few minutes, apply some more oil and leave the bike in that position over night. Try again next day.

The idea is, to get some lubrication at the sealing inside, which seems to stick occationally.

One of our bikes was "healed" after two minutes of spinning backwards, the second needed another treatment next day to work well again.

Maybe it is interesting to mention that the problem only happenend to those bikes which are frequently cleaned with a waterhose.

good luck
Peter

 

[lolp]

Hi Peter.
MAGIC....it worked?.. and in 10 mins max. ... I owe you one (or two) cold beers?
There i was looking down the barrel of a new £600 motor and all it took was half an hour of time and a few drops of oil sitting in the garage!
Surprisingly on my ride this morning the 'sticking' made no difference to battery life and didnt interfere with forward motion at all. Also it partly freed itself... probably from all the jarring over roots etc... but would not spin 'freely' backwards... it would turn backwards as it should but there was still some resistance
I would make one comment though on your procedure...there is no need to remove the spider...the inner/outer axles are visible with just the crank removed which makes me wonder whether it would be good to do it as from the non-drive side too. I didnt quite understand the first part of your point 4 but didn't need it.
AND....yes i am guilty of using a hose (not a pressure washer) although i thought id been very restrained in not pointing it at the motor/battery?(too much). I shan't use the hose anywhere near the motor now
Lastly, i think a little oil there every couple of months especially during a muddy winter will now be part of my maintenance regime.
One again thanks for your experience and advice ?

 

[ped]

Hi Peter.
MAGIC....it worked?.. and in 10 mins max. ... I owe you one (or two) cold beers?
There i was looking down the barrel of a new £600 motor and all it took was half an hour of time and a few drops of oil sitting in the garage!
Surprisingly on my ride this morning the 'sticking' made no difference to battery life and didnt interfere with forward motion at all. Also it partly freed itself... probably from all the jarring over roots etc... but would not spin 'freely' backwards... it would turn backwards as it should but there was still some resistance
I would make one comment though on your procedure...there is no need to remove the spider...the inner/outer axles are visible with just the crank removed which makes me wonder whether it would be good to do it as from the non-drive side too. I didnt quite understand the first part of your point 4 but didn't need it.
AND....yes i am guilty of using a hose (not a pressure washer) although i thought id been very restrained in not pointing it at the motor/battery?(too much). I shan't use the hose anywhere near the motor now
Lastly, i think a little oil there every couple of months especially during a muddy winter will now be part of my maintenance regime.
One again thanks for your experience and advice ?

Hi lolp,
good to hear that you could solve the problem.
And yes of course you are right. It is NOT necessary to dismount the spider for the lubricating procedure.
Thanks for the beer. I will enjoy it virtually.

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi bearing man...do you have the necessaty bearings? What is the cost?....and how much of a job is it to replace them?...is it a home mechanic job?
Cheers!

Hi Lolp, The bearing that is causing your issue is the small crankshaft needle roller bearing. I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your post because one thing I was going to say is DON'T put your bike on its side and tip oil in the bearing!
This will, temporarily, make the bearing feel better, but you haven't solved the problem. This bearing starts to seize and become stiff because water has got into it and rust has started to develop. Yes, you will ease it with oil but the bearing is still damaged and now coated with oily rust.
Any oil tipped into the motor (even very small quantities) will now contaminate the interior of the motor. If any of this clean or contaminated oil makes its way to the sprag clutch bearings or drive belt, that's a bad thing.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, and I do not want to scare anyone, but sadly I have seen many people do this trick on many different motors and it never ends well.
If a bearing is stiff, it is already full of rust and failing. Putting oil on it is only prolonging the inevitable. Unfortunately, when the bearing finally gives up altogether you may find that the rust damage and contamination has damaged your motor beyond repair

As luck would have it, I have another motor in for repair with exactly this problem. You can see the rust on the bearing in question and you can also clearly see the damage to the bearing surface of the crankshaft. If this crank is used again it will just cause the next bearing to fail prematurely

 

[lolp]

Hi Lolp, The bearing that is causing your issue is the small crankshaft needle roller bearing. I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your post because one thing I was going to say is DON'T put your bike on its side and tip oil in the bearing!
This will, temporarily, make the bearing feel better, but you haven't solved the problem. This bearing starts to seize and become stiff because water has got into it and rust has started to develop. Yes, you will ease it with oil but the bearing is still damaged and now coated with oily rust.
Any oil tipped into the motor (even very small quantities) will now contaminate the interior of the motor. If any of this clean or contaminated oil makes its way to the sprag clutch bearings or drive belt, that's a bad thing.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, and I do not want to scare anyone, but sadly I have seen many people do this trick on many different motors and it never ends well.
If a bearing is stiff, it is already full of rust and failing. Putting oil on it is only prolonging the inevitable. Unfortunately, when the bearing finally gives up altogether you may find that the rust damage and contamination has damaged your motor beyond repair

As luck would have it, I have another motor in for repair with exactly this problem. You can see the rust on the bearing in question and you can also clearly see the damage to the bearing surface of the crankshaft. If this crank is used again it will just cause the next bearing to fail prematurely View attachment 12761 View attachment 12762

Hi bearing man.
Sobering stuff indeed. So i suppose my original questions to you still stand. Eventually will this be a home mechanic job or a pro job and what is the cost in either case?...and time to do the job from sending to getting bike or motor back?
And on the basis that the gap between the two axles is not sealed at the outside (presumably) how can it be avoided in future during muddy winters?... literally still just wiping the bike down with a damp rag??

 

[lolp]

Hi Peter,

In the light of what bearingman has said can you report whether your friends who tried this trick have had any further problems and if so how long afterwards? Thanks.

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi bearing man.
Sobering stuff indeed. So i suppose my original questions to you still stand. Eventually will this be a home mechanic job or a pro job and what is the cost in either case?...and time to do the job from sending to getting bike or motor back?
And on the basis that the gap between the two axles is not sealed at the outside (presumably) how can it be avoided in future during muddy winters?... literally still just wiping the bike down with a damp rag??

There are some motors I would say are home mechanic fixable and some I wouldn't. Brose is one motor I wouldn't recommend "having a go" (even I don't like doing them

Turnaround time on most motor repairs is 1 to 2 days. Shipping times will obviously depend on where in the world you live.

Cost for repair is always difficult without knowing exactly what is going on in there? If it's just replacing the needle roller bearing, it would be approx. £60 inc VAT. If there is damage to the crankshaft or other bearings then I would send a report with photos and cost, the choice would be yours if you wanted to proceed or not?

I have done a lot of research on this motor and have found a few upgrades. I use metal cased sprag clutch bearings as the originals are plastic cased and can fail when the plastic cracks, I also have some double lipped seals coming this week to try and address this bearing issue by adding another barrier between this bearing and the outside world.

Going back to your motor, there is still a possibility that it is a sprag bearing dragging or crankshaft bearing in distress, but what ever the issue, it should not be tight and you should not put oil into it! Also bear in mind that plastic gears do not like hydrocarbon based lubricants (another reason not to do it!)

 

[ped]

Hi Lolp,

to answer your question, we did the lubrication procedure in oct.2018.
Since then the bikes made 2500km and 3000km under wet and muddy winter and spring conditions. Our "iron pigs" are (ab)used for the rough stuff.
Until now we had no further dropouts or other mechanical problems concerning the motor and drive.

I discussed the issue with my friends and we carefully examined the movement of the crankshaft. We could not detect any suspicious perception while turning the crank. It feels smooth and frictionless. No bearing clearance could be detected.

If you turn a bearing that is damaged or worn out, you usualy feel it kind of scratchy, stuttering, perceptable clearance or at least unsmooth.
Nothing of this could be detected on both bikes.

Regarding this, we decided: DONT´PANIC - RIDE ON !
This is our very personal decision. But in the end, everybody must choose his own reasonable solution to feel safe.

@Bearing Man
looking at your pic No1. Can you please tell if the needle bearing is equiped with sealings ?
The blue-grey area between the outer bearing ring and needles looks like a sealing lip.

 

[Bearing Man]

Hi Lolp,
@Bearing Man
looking at your pic No1. Can you please tell if the needle bearing is equiped with sealings ?
The blue-grey area between the outer bearing ring and needles looks like a sealing lip.

Yes, this bearing has a seal both sides, not that it does much good. This is why we are looking at fitting a secondary seal before the bearing.

 

[lolp]

Peter...thanks for the update... i did the 'repair' when i got your first message and my cranks turn without friction and with no perceptible 'play' to the axle. I'll just have to ride it til it gives up but your mates extra 6months and still going is encouraging.
Bearingsman... your advice is also most appreciated and if (maybe when?) i need a full on repair ill be in contact...i presume you are in the UK but can you give your website for more contact details please...just in case!

 

[lolp]

Bearing man....just a thought....might a smear of grease between the axles be beneficial?...just at the outer edges both sides to keep water out?????

 

[ped]

Yes, this bearing has a seal both sides, not that it does much good. This is why we are looking at fitting a secondary seal before the bearing.

Hi Bearing Man,
thanks for the information.
your advice and experience is highly appreciated.

 

[Bearing Man]

Peter...thanks for the update... i did the 'repair' when i got your first message and my cranks turn without friction and with no perceptible 'play' to the axle. I'll just have to ride it til it gives up but your mates extra 6months and still going is encouraging.
Bearingsman... your advice is also most appreciated and if (maybe when?) i need a full on repair ill be in contact...i presume you are in the UK but can you give your website for more contact details please...just in case!

Yes lolp I am based in the UK, you can find all my contact details on my website The home of e-bike motor parts -
As for the grease, yes, this works for some motors, but not really the Brose. I think my seal fix will be good but I have to wait until next week to find out?

 

[lolp]

Excellent. Thanks bearingsman.