spd or flat?

[Swiss Roll]

I am used to spd on a light mtb, though a heavy ebike might be a different proposition.
What are the pros and cons? I have been using the crappy but adequate metal flats that came with my bike, but I noticed there is a bit chunk of metal missing from one of the side bars, so I was looking for some new ones, and was inevitably seduced by the spuddy dark side, such as saint m820s.

 

[Barnicles]

I have just stuck some spd pedals back on the ebike after riding them again on the pedal bike again recently. I'm liking being attached to the bike again. I've enjoyed using flats for the last couple of years but have gotten fed up with pedal slips and not getting my feet set before entering a trail. The Saint spds are really good!!

 

[Swiss Roll]

I have just stuck some spd pedals back on the ebike after riding them again on the pedal bike again recently. I'm liking being attached to the bike again. I've enjoyed using flats for the last couple of years but have gotten fed up with pedal slips and not getting my feet set before entering a trail. The Saint spds are really good!!

cheers for the reply. I am new to full sus.
I kinda like the freedom of flats, I don't slip too often, but I am more used to getting air with spds, its getting better, but I can't get the hang of pumping the back end for air. The saints look quite flat, might work with normal shoes too, maybe?

 

[Banktramp]

Personal choice mate but I’ve rode clipless for a few years now and don’t feel comfortable on flat pedals.

Just feel like it gives me more bike control and also keeps me connected to the bike during sketchy stuff.

 

[MartinD.]

Both? I use the Deore XT single-sided versions with clips on one side (normal riding) and flats on the other for technical stuff where a dab might be required. Works well and sometimes I ride one foot clipped in and other on the flat side. I does take a couple of extra seconds to clip-in but worth it IMHO.

 

[flash]

Magpeds....

Gordon

 

[Zed]

Wearing flats I'm more likely to try stuff that scares me a bit like gap jumps, or stuff I'm not very good at like skinnies (we don't have many near me). I like to ride loose and sideways and I feel more comfortable doing that on flats, so I pretty much exclusively ride flats.

I use 5-10s and Oneup pedals and slipping off is a total non-event, but I am very used to flats these days so have worked on my technique and that may also be a factor.

I used to ride clipless and I would ride with more finesse (slower in fast out) but that's not what I enjoy about riding trails. I did have crashes that were worse because I couldn't/didn't disconnect from the bike, which of course doesn't help me with not loving clipless.

There are tonnes of threads with discussion on this, and on the pedals themselves (the Saints are fine but there are IMO better options like the OneUps that are thinner).

EDIT: Should add my knees aren't a fan of clipless either. When I commuted with them all the time I'd get sore knees, and I think it's because my toes like to point out more than SPDs allow. On a road bike I used to use Speedplays with adjustable float and they were fine though.

 

[The Hodge]

Time Atac..never had flats ..and probably never will..
I started using Time straight from using those caged " clipless" pedals with straps 20 odd years ago ..disconnect is just so automatic I don't even think about it ..and I've never liked the idea of punctured shins ..
I use the MX 6 version which has a wider platform ..

 

[Zed]

..and I've never liked the idea of punctured shins ..

I agree, sounds terrible.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

flats took me a long time to get used to after many years of clips and hard shoes but it did good things for my technique.
if I was to go back and I do consider it a lot, I would only really consider the crank brothers mallet or DH pedals with a nice platform.
sorry, its not a personal recommendation but I just look at who uses them (basically all downhillers) and they seem to get on alright.

 

[Mikerb]

I think a lot depends on your level of expertise on the bike plus the sort of riding you do. So at one end of the scale you have pros descending flat out on hugely gnarly terrain and most ( with exceptions) are clipped in. That gives them better control plus of course they ride without stopping for only a few minutes top to bottom of the course. For those of us below that level being clipped in can lead to bad technique especially in terms of jumping etc if that leads to using the cleats to lift the bike. I think if you are pretty expert and can push your limits on trails whilst very rarely messing up or crashing then cleats may be what you feel most comfortable with. If however you have not got to that stage, cleats can add another element of difficulty you do not need. I have tried SPDs but do not like either the shoes or the fact that I cannot choose exactly how I put my foot on the pedal for different scenarios. I also regularly get off the bike during a riding session.....to check out a trail feature before riding it, to repair a berm or jump.....to have a rest. Walking on hilly terrain is bad enough in 5-10s.....often a joke in SPDs. My favourite combo is DMR V12 pedals with 5-10s.

 

[Zed]

I think if you are pretty expert and can push your limits on trails whilst very rarely messing up or crashing

I agree, but I would refine that further to very expert, on very expert tracks, racing a clock.

(As you said), at the pointy end of downhill, you have guys who need to be over the front wheel on the absolute craziest of terrain, chasing tenths of seconds - and for them being attached to the pedals is going to be an advantage. It's easy to see that. But that is the most serious level of riding gnarly stuff the human race experiences. These guys have their bodies on the line fighting for their careers.

But look at Sam Hill (I know ). Let's pretend the speed he rides in EWS was the actual upper limit of what's possible on flats - well, I really don't think any of us here will ever need to worry about hitting that ceiling. I know I won't There are plenty of others who don't clip in but Sam is easy to talk about since he's a multi time champion, who tried a full year on clipless (DHing at the time I think, he did a full preseason and then competition) and then went back to flats (I believe he said it was a confidence thing).

I'm firmly in the camp of "do what works for you". And I think for most of us it's going to be what we cut our teeth on. For those risking life and limb to chase podiums, obviously they're going to need to think differently, because it's pretty much a completely different activity.

I was a little surprised to see on these forums how many eMTBers are clipping in, given that the back foot torque is a non issue. But then - like I said - it's what we cut our teeth on. For me when I was a kid I was pratting about on a bmx hurting myself. Probably many others start with road cycling or XC, and so they'd be more used to clips than not.

 

[RustyIron]

and was inevitably seduced by the spuddy dark side, such as saint m820s.

Yeah, it's easy to fall for the allure of the green grass on the other side of the fence. Please allow me to ramble a bit--I'm fully aware that I'm not going to answer your question.

When I started riding in earnest, the cool kids rocked clipless, and the newbies bumbled along on their flats. So I learned to ride clipless, and became quite good---not as good as some, but better than most. But recently I've been hearing the Sirens of the flats singing to me. Sure, newbies still ride flats, but I have a few friends who ride flats and who have some abilities better than my own. I couldn't help but wonder what I was missing by not riding Newbie Pedals.

So I threw down on some nice pedals and shoes. The first time out, my feet were coming off the pedals, I couldn't jump, and I ended up cutting my calf. I was so frustrated that I reinstalled the clipless pedals onto the bike, and put over $300 in new gear on the shelf. I was angry about my stupid purchase.

But the Sirens wouldn't shut up, and I put the flats back on the bike. After all, flat pedal shoes look cool. Clipless-style shoes make you look like a sexually ambiguous leprechaun. This time around, I had time to think about the process of riding flats, so it went more smoothly. I could "feel" how I had been a "lazy" rider. I would sometimes put too much weight on my butt, decreasing pressure on the pedals. Sometimes on the super steep downhills, I would rest on my arms, again decreasing pressure on the pedals. My conclusion is that clipless allowed imperfect style, where flats force the rider to maintain better weight distribution. Within a short time I became competent.

I'm still not as good on flats as I am on clipless, but it's evident that the goal is within reach. My advice, if you stick to mid-level trails, stick with the convenience of flats. If you want to leverage your ability to stick to your bike without effort, go clipless. If you're riding at an advanced level on difficult trails... then I'm still figuring out that one for myself. I think the final decision is going to come down to riding whatever you feel like. There are people who ride better than either of us who can do so on either flats or clipless.

 

[MartinD.]

Do y’all old folks with knee issues notice any difference riding clip less vs flats. Maybe strengthens knee or just wears it out more.

I find being clipped in allows for a smoother, continuous, stroke (ooh-err missus) and that flows better for me when climbing smoother trails - and I do notice "back-foot torque" or whatever you want to call it. It feels a lot less like "stamping on the pedals" and lower impact on my very dodgy knees.....

 

[JoeBlow]

It depends on you and the type of riding you do. I was fine with SPD's for cross country riding but feel terrified of using them on gnarly down hill at bike parks. Others seem to manage. I also found SPD's to be better for uphill as you get some benefit from both the upstroke and the downstroke but this is less of an issue on an EMTB.

 

[RustyIron]

Do y’all old folks with knee issues notice any difference riding clip less vs flats.

This isn't what you asked, but it might be of help nevertheless. My experience going back and forth between pedals isn't vast, but I haven't noticed any difference. BUT... my knees are in pretty good shape right now. Here's a couple tips to keep the knees in shape. They're basic and you probably already know them, but this is more of a "public service announcement."

1. Set your saddle to the correct height. Too low, the front side of your knees will hurt. Too high, and the back side will hurt. A lot of folks run their saddles too low. When shredding a flowy trail, it's easy for me to leave the saddle too low, and my knees can be sore afterwards.

2. It's easy to build strong muscles. Keeping those muscles from tearing apart your framework isn't so easy. Just because you CAN shift to a taller gear, stand on your pedals, and hammer to the top of the hill, doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. Be cognizant of what you're doing, and sometimes shift to a lower gear and sit on the saddle.

3. You NEED to stretch your leg muscles. You're a complex machine. If a muscle on one side is too tight, the opposing muscle will pull extra hard to keep everything in balance. It happens automatically and you don't know it. One side is tight, the other is pulling, so your knees that are typically stressed with your 19 stones, are now suffering from 22, and they never get to rest.

 

[Mikerb]

At 70 my knees are fine so cannot answer the question. I am aware however that SPDs really need to be adjusted specific to a riders anatomy or it will definitely cause issues. Obviously we all ride different types of terrain but for my type of riding I spend most of my time on the pedals with the saddle fully or mostly slammed so not really interested in pedalling efficiency. I have never had problems slipping off pedals on downhill runs etc so have had no incentive to swop to clipless.

 

[millemille]

SPD's all the way for me.

I started mountain biking back in the 80's when we used Lyotard cycle cross pedals with toe clips and straps and sidi shoes with cleats and once the straps were clinched tight there was no way you were getting you feet out, let alone having any circulation in your toes.

When SPD's came out at the very end of the 80's they were a revelation, you could be securely attached to the bike AND get your foot out with no bother. Wow!

My opinion is people who struggle with clipless pedals and fear, or have experienced, being unable to dab a foot are probably running the tension too high. I advise new users of clipless pedals to start with the tension backed all the way off and gradually increase it to the point where they strike a happy balance between accidental releases and being able to exploit the feeling of being attached to the bike and being able to dab a foot.

I can't remember the last time I crashed because I use clipless pedals but i feel at some point of every ride, and probably more often as i get older and my reflexes and ability dull, that being clipped in allowed to me to get over an obstacle or make a climb that i wouldn't on flats because I'd have run out of mental and physical capacity and lost my foot off the pedal.

Where I ride is very rocky, both fixed and loose, and pedals are a consumable as far as I'm concerned so I run the shimano DX pedals. The ones with the plastic cage round the edge, which offers a degree of protection for the pedal and some energy absorption in the event of a pedal strike and also a flat area to ride on if not clipped in...

 

[The Hodge]

I can't remember the last time I crashed because I use clipless pedals but i feel at some point of every ride, and probably more often as i get older and my reflexes and ability dull, that being clipped in allowed to me to get over an obstacle or make a climb that i wouldn't on flats because I'd have run out of mental and physical capacity and lost my foot off the pedal.

Well put ..100% this ..with the emphasis on the fact that I can't remember the last time I crashed because I was using clipless pedals ..
I can remember vividly the last time I crashed though

 

[Swiss Roll]

In the end, I decided to stick with flats to improve my technique, so I got shimano pd-gr500s, they look cool on my my bike, and they are much grippier than my old cheapo pedals. I was gonna get nylon maxim knockoffs, but the girl in the shop advised me to get metal ones. Even though she seemed barely cognizant of how bikes work, and seemed unfamiliar with the concept of pedal strikes, I got to fumble with all of the flat pedals they had, and she made me a coffee. I kept telling her 1000s of raceface maxims have been sold, but she insisted nylon would break, she had tried them on her bike. I asked if they broke, she said "no, but I don't ride downhill." I had to laugh, but I am happy with the shimanos, apparently the knockoffs get rusty pins, according to their website.

 

[mastakilla]

Yeah, it's easy to fall for the allure of the green grass on the other side of the fence. Please allow me to ramble a bit--I'm fully aware that I'm not going to answer your question.

When I started riding in earnest, the cool kids rocked clipless, and the newbies bumbled along on their flats. So I learned to ride clipless, and became quite good---not as good as some, but better than most. But recently I've been hearing the Sirens of the flats singing to me. Sure, newbies still ride flats, but I have a few friends who ride flats and who have some abilities better than my own. I couldn't help but wonder what I was missing by not riding Newbie Pedals.

So I threw down on some nice pedals and shoes. The first time out, my feet were coming off the pedals, I couldn't jump, and I ended up cutting my calf. I was so frustrated that I reinstalled the clipless pedals onto the bike, and put over $300 in new gear on the shelf. I was angry about my stupid purchase.

But the Sirens wouldn't shut up, and I put the flats back on the bike. After all, flat pedal shoes look cool. Clipless-style shoes make you look like a sexually ambiguous leprechaun. This time around, I had time to think about the process of riding flats, so it went more smoothly. I could "feel" how I had been a "lazy" rider. I would sometimes put too much weight on my butt, decreasing pressure on the pedals. Sometimes on the super steep downhills, I would rest on my arms, again decreasing pressure on the pedals. My conclusion is that clipless allowed imperfect style, where flats force the rider to maintain better weight distribution. Within a short time I became competent.

I'm still not as good on flats as I am on clipless, but it's evident that the goal is within reach. My advice, if you stick to mid-level trails, stick with the convenience of flats. If you want to leverage your ability to stick to your bike without effort, go clipless. If you're riding at an advanced level on difficult trails... then I'm still figuring out that one for myself. I think the final decision is going to come down to riding whatever you feel like. There are people who ride better than either of us who can do so on either flats or clipless.

This is my experience too. I tried riding flats for a downhill bike park season couple years ago and had to force myself to learn them. I got somewhat but not completely comfortable. When the chairlifts shut down I put my clips back on and havent been back to the flats since. Damn I wish i just kept the flats on would have been an expert by now. As far as looking like a leprechaun, there are nice looking clip shoes now, look just their cool flat brethren.

 

[RustyIron]

the girl in the shop advised me to get metal ones.

Even though she seemed barely cognizant of how bikes work,

and she made me a coffee.

ME TOO!
I feel your pain, brother. <group hug>
A cute girl with ample bosoms makes you coffee and then convinces you to give her your money. Did you file a report with the local police? Are there laws against this sort of sexual targeting where you live? While she might have taken your dignity, at least you got some pedals out of the incident. Ride on!

 

[Stihldog]

Magpeds....

Gordon

Magpeds…Enduro. They work for the reverse gear too.
I used toeclips in the 80’s, switched to clipless for road then gravel bike. Went to flats for a while on the MTB …now I use magnetic.

They also distract the keen observer from all the technology on our eMTB’s. “What are those?”
“Those are magnetic peddles”. Then I get to strike a sexy pose and show the metal plate on the bottom of my shoe where a spd would mount.

They’re not for everyone. I hear an audible snap/click when my shoe is placed on the peddle. They need a little getting use to and sometimes a slight adjustment once you get rolling. I’ve only had a few accidental disconnects in the past few years.

 

[The EMF]

Do y’all old folks with knee issues notice any difference riding clip less vs flats. Maybe strengthens knee or just wears it out more.

This auld codger has gone from years of wearing SPD’s to riding flats,
no more aching knees……
HT Components with 5TENs, I’ve no problem either with techy climbs or gharnly descents, I like to move my feet around

 

[Hill Killer]

DMR v12 and 510,s here with no issues.

 

[folmonty]

Like having an option. Enjoy using Crank Bros double shot pedals. They work so well even put them on a road eBike. All depends on the trail or if you want to wear bike shoes or not. Super versatile. Much more efficient riding the road to and from the trails.

 

[geehaw]

Went back and forth for awhile. Dont think would ever go back to spd. I like the ability to adjust the foot position, and drop a foot quickly on gnarly terrain or tight turns. Also in winter riding on clay based muddy surfaces, you just can't clear that sticky stuff of an spd pedal (actually cant even clear it on flats but its better). I wear shin guards for the accidental slips, but after going with softer compound shoes, I rarely slip off the pedals.

 

[Hill Killer]

Went back and forth for awhile. Dont think would ever go back to spd. I like the ability to adjust the foot position, and drop a foot quickly on gnarly terrain or tight turns. Also in winter riding on clay based muddy surfaces, you just can't clear that sticky stuff of an spd pedal (actually cant even clear it on flats but its better). I wear shin guards for the accidental slips, but after going with softer compound shoes, I rarely slip off the pedals.

I was very late to the game with getting a pair of 510,s and its been a revelation for grip.

 

[Gemini2k]

Flats are better for E-bikes. The marginal improvement in pedaling efficiency from clips isn't really a factor for an e-bike. Using flats forces you to improve your bike handling skills as well. Clips can be a bandaid for poor technique.

 

[eMullet]

One is not better than the other. It comes down to the user.

Clips are not just about pedaling efficiency, its about constant spinning motion that also benefits E-bikes motors to deliver smooth torque.