Soon to be EMTB rider in need of suggestions.

[wenna]

Hey all, I´m in need of some guidance for buying my first EMTB.

I never considered an E-bike before, but developed complications from an injury 5 years ago and have not been able to ride for the last 5 years.
Now my physical therapy is starting to show results but I´m still a long way from being able to take my mtb out on the trails. So this is where I started thinking about an E-bike that could get me out into the woods earlier (hopefully as early as next summer).

My background is I grew up on dirtbikes racing motocross for over 20 years. MTB for me has been trail riding for some fun cardio workout.

My current trail bike is a Santa Cruz Hightower 29er with 135mm rear and 150mm fork. I really like this bike and it fits well to the type of riding I do around where Iive.

I am 178cm tall with long legs and short torso (85,5 inseam).
The SC Hightower is a size L with 450mm reach and has been fitting me really well. Any bike with a shorter reach starts feeling cramped when standing, but it still needs to be quite short when seated because of my short torso. So I guess the bike needs quite steep seattube angle and short top tube?

Like I said I do mostly trail riding and 150mm suspension is enough for the trails I ride, but with a background in motocross I do like to go hard when it gets rough and going downhill. So I was thinking that with an EMTB maybe I could afford longer travel even if I rarely need it?

The bikes I´m keeping an eye on are:
- Canyon Strive ON (Has longer reach but still quite short when seated, but thinking maybe 170mm travel is overkill?)
- Canyon Spectral ON
- YT Decoy MX
- YT Decoy 29
- Cube Stereo Hybrid 140
- Cube Stereo Hybrid 160

So Trail or Enduro?
Any other bikes recommended or other tips?

 

[steve_sordy]

@wenna Pretty much all emtbs now are very good bikes. You seem to know how to understand a geometry table, so choose one of those bikes that will fit you. There are other excellent bikes out there, ones that you can walk into a shop and try one out for size. Don't forget to read the reviews.

You did not mention the motor. One of the most important factors in the eyes of many riders is which motor? All motors have their good and bad points, but many riders will only buy a specific emtb if it has their motor of choice. Some motors offer a more realistic riding experience, some more torque. The peak torque appears in different places on the revs vs torque curve of different motors. Some motors are aimed at the lightweight end of the emtb range (typically SL for superlight). But for some riders, the most important factor is repairability, even above reliability (yet another very important factor). Some motors are not deemed serviceable by the manufacturer, some motors are serviceable but have other factors that are disliked. Warranty and whether the manufacturer sticks to it or becomes a bit of a weasel, is yet another issue. You can analyse yourself into paralysis if you spend too long thinking about this stuff when it will be your first emtb.
If I had to pick one motor, irrespective of what bike it was on, based upon what I have read on here, plus my own views, I would go for the Bosch motor. By the way, I have owned two Shimano powered bikes, one e8000 and the other the later EP8 and I have had zero problems with either. I love the natural feeling of the Shimano motor, but I hate the fact that once they fail, I have to buy a new motor if out of warranty. My last bike chose itself; it just happened to have a Shimano EP8 motor.

Battery size is an important factor, if only because they weigh so much. As you are recuperating, maybe one of the bikes designed to be a lighter weight emtb may be good for you. You are unlikely to be doing all day mountain epics. They have smaller batteries, typically half the size. The bikes are light and they have lighter motors too. The downside is that the peak torque is lower as well, so that the range is not too badly affected. If leg strength is your problem, this may not be the way to go. Specialized dealers are selling off their Kenevo SL range at 50% discount. The view is that if this is the sort of bike you are looking for then it's a great deal. But don't buy it just because of the discount!

You say that you are a "long way from being able to take my bike out onto trails", in which case you may be thinking that an emtb is an easy ride. You may be influenced by a widespread view that ebikes are for the sick, lame and lazy. Whilst for certain, the assistance offered by an emtb can make a crucial difference for anyone with physical limitations, they are not one up from a motorised wheelchair! A typical emtb can weigh 22-26 kg and they can take some muscling about. I return from each ride knowing that I've had a work out! If you "like to go hard when it gets rough and going downhill" then what is the assistance that you need? If it is merely getting back up the hills, then you will be OK, but if you are expecting an emtb to overcome wider problems with (for example) physical strength, lung function, or flexibility then you may be in for a cruel disappointment.

I respectfully suggest that you hire an emtb for a few hours and see how you get on. Take the time to get the bike set up for you. Get the saddle height, grips, levers and so forth all in the right place for you. Ensure that the suspension is set up for you as well, not whatever the last guy that rode the bike decided was good for him. Don't forget tyre pressures! Make sure that the hirer shows you the power settings and don't forget the walk function (you may need it)! You will find the investment in time and money to be a very good one.

When it comes to buying a bike, I always recommend never to forget ambition! Obviously, you need to take into account your current physical limitations, but you will not be able to forget how good you used to be. I suspect that is what lays behind your references to maybe more travel than 150mm, and going hard on rough downhills.

However, bikes have become A LOT more capable in the last five years and you will be surprised what you can now do with 150mm of travel.

The very best of luck with your recovery. When you have made a decision, and how you made it, please update the Forum.

 

[Type1]

I'd suggest demo as many as you can.

I'd recommend both brands and demo's here -

Demo Bikes

Demo Bikes from our Summerbridge Store. Call 01423 802 208 to book your ride

www.stifmtb.com

YT Mill Showrooms

www.yt-industries.com

Rolling Circus Events

www.yt-industries.com

If you come from a motocross back ground I'd imagine an enduro would suit you best.

 

[militantmandy]

I'd suggest demo as many as you can.

This if you can. I have been surprised several times by bikes that looked good or bad on the geo chart.

I absolutely love my Whyte e160 so I'll recommend that! I had a Decoy shred too which was also excellent.

 

[B1rdie]

Knowing what kind of injury you had and why it kept you out of riding bikes for five years would be more helpful in order to indicate the best bike, generally, I would say, keep away from enduro or down hill until you've completely recovered muscle strength and the ability to sustain the next off, because that is inevitable. With that in mind, I would be looking for a short travel bike 120-140mm as light as possible, that will surely be capable enough to take you into the woods, and trigger the endorphin/adrenaline mix that powers the mind to strengthen the body.

 

[wenna]

There are other excellent bikes out there, ones that you can walk into a shop and try one out for size.

Sadly the offerings from bikeshops around here are very limited. There´s basically only Trek which do not interest me.

You did not mention the motor. One of the most important factors in the eyes of many riders is which motor?

I understand there´s a preference for which motor but as I have never tried any motors and probably won´t be able to before making a purchase, I´ll have to rely on reviews and on what I read about on forums. It´s important to me that I can work on and service the motor myself. From what I know so far I would say Bosch followed by Shimano. But Pinion looks very interesting and I´ve read rumors of a Sram motor.

Battery size is an important factor, if only because they weigh so much. As you are recuperating, maybe one of the bikes designed to be a lighter weight emtb may be good for you. You are unlikely to be doing all day mountain epics. They have smaller batteries, typically half the size. The bikes are light and they have lighter motors too. The downside is that the peak torque is lower as well, so that the range is not too badly affected. If leg strength is your problem, this may not be the way to go. Specialized dealers are selling off their Kenevo SL range at 50% discount. The view is that if this is the sort of bike you are looking for then it's a great deal. But don't buy it just because of the discount!

I did contemplate a SL bike but as the EMTB market around here is close to zero I will get the bike I would want when fully healed as it will be a pain to resell the bike. And yes I´m having issues with my legs and want to have as much power as possible available for when needed.

You say that you are a "long way from being able to take my bike out onto trails", in which case you may be thinking that an emtb is an easy ride. You may be influenced by a widespread view that ebikes are for the sick, lame and lazy. Whilst for certain, the assistance offered by an emtb can make a crucial difference for anyone with physical limitations, they are not one up from a motorised wheelchair! A typical emtb can weigh 22-26 kg and they can take some muscling about. I return from each ride knowing that I've had a work out! If you "like to go hard when it gets rough and going downhill" then what is the assistance that you need? If it is merely getting back up the hills, then you will be OK, but if you are expecting an emtb to overcome wider problems with (for example) physical strength, lung function, or flexibility then you may be in for a cruel disappointment.

I fully understand EMTB can be physically demanding. I´m far from those people who don´t see motorsports as sports.
But I was hoping that when I´ve recuperated enough to ride on the trails, but can´t risk enough leg power for climbs, the ebike will be able to supply enough assistance.
It´s all about limiting the max leg power I put in. Say my physiotherapist gives me the ok to push 200w, then I would not be able to ride any trails with moderate climbs using my analog bike. So I would need som assistance going uphill.

I respectfully suggest that you hire an emtb for a few hours and see how you get on. Take the time to get the bike set up for you. Get the saddle height, grips, levers and so forth all in the right place for you. Ensure that the suspension is set up for you as well, not whatever the last guy that rode the bike decided was good for him. Don't forget tyre pressures! Make sure that the hirer shows you the power settings and don't forget the walk function (you may need it)! You will find the investment in time and money to be a very good one.

I´ll have a look around for this but I doubt I´ll be able to find any bikes to rent in my proximity.

However, bikes have become A LOT more capable in the last five years and you will be surprised what you can now do with 150mm of travel.

This is one way to look at it, but then I could also look at it from the perspective that longer travel bikes have become more capable trail bikes as well

If I was fully healed and could only have an analog bike, I would go for 150mm travel because an enduro bike would be too heavy and bob too much. But my thinking is that with an ebike I get assistance canceling out the extra effort needed with an enduro bike.

When fully healed I will probably use my analog bike for training and the ebike for fun in rough terrain and downhill.

The very best of luck with your recovery. When you have made a decision, and how you made it, please update the Forum

Thank you very much. I appreciate your thorough reply.

 

[wenna]

I'd suggest demo as many as you can.

I'd recommend both brands and demo's here -

I live in northern Sweden with a limited market. But I´ll look for the opportunity to demo bikes.

 

[wenna]

Knowing what kind of injury you had and why it kept you out of riding bikes for five years would be more helpful in order to indicate the best bike, generally, I would say, keep away from enduro or down hill until you've completely recovered muscle strength and the ability to sustain the next off, because that is inevitable. With that in mind, I would be looking for a short travel bike 120-140mm as light as possible, that will surely be capable enough to take you into the woods, and trigger the endorphin/adrenaline mix that powers the mind to strengthen the body.

I´ve pulled both hamstrings and have had complications from that. Currently going through a physical therapy plan where I cycle on a trainer and slowly increase resistance and duration following a planned out programme. If all goes well I should be able to gently start riding outdoors next summer.

I see what you mean and in the best of worlds that would be my choice. But as EMTB´s are expensive and the market is small in my area, It would be hard to resell the bike. Therefore I´m thinking I need to purchase the bike I would want when healed as I´ll probably keep it for a few years. That would probably mean getting a lot more suspension then needed while recuperating.

 

[B1rdie]

I have a large spectralon and a medium cube 160, one is a little too long and the other a little too short… thats the problem of buying online bikes, I’m 1,75 cm tall. The canyon is a mullet and the cube 27,5 front and rear. The fork on the cube is a domain wich is fine, stiff and plush, but heavy, and the wheelset of the canyon is a lighter dt swiss, combined woth a lyric fork. So, the bigger canyon is lighter than the cube but despite that, the cube is easyer to jump and the canyon behaves better on fast chatter because of the 29 front and better damper of the lyric.

 

[steve_sordy]

@wenna Have you considered a used version? If Northern Sweden is such a difficult market to sell into, then it must be a good one to buy from.

That way you can get the bike you need right now that will assist with your recuperation. Once fully recovered you can go full on and get the bike of your dreams and still not have lost much on your old one.

 

[wenna]

@wenna Have you considered a used version? If Northern Sweden is such a difficult market to sell into, then it must be a good one to buy from.

That way you can get the bike you need right now that will assist with your recuperation. Once fully recovered you can go full on and get the bike of your dreams and still not have lost much on your old one.

Yes keeping an eye out for a used bike.

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

@wenna If you can find a Scott dealer in your area, take a look at their Trail/All-mountain models.

I recently picked a Scott eRide Strike 930 (MY22). I found that the overall build quality, geometry, equipment and motor were great considering the attractive price point. So far I'm very pleased with mine.

You can find more info here:

 

[billp91311]

 

[wenna]

@wenna If you can find a Scott dealer in your area, take a look at their Trail/All-mountain models.

I recently picked a Scott eRide Strike 930 (MY22). I found that the overall build quality, geometry, equipment and motor were great considering the attractive price point. So far I'm very pleased with mine.

You can find more info here:

There are actually a few Scott dealers around, but they don´t really have any of the sort of bikes I´m interested in on the floor. Also Scott are quite expensive here and their bikes don´t really speak to me.

All my bikes I have had to either build myself or purchase online. My current bikes are a Santa Cruz Hightower I´ve built myself after buying a frame from Germany, a Canyon Dude fatbike and a Canyon Inflite cyclocross.

 

[steve_sordy]

@wenna Yep, never buy a bike that you think is not attractive to look at. I am almost incapable of walking away from my bike without looking back at it for one last look, even when it's covered in mud!

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

It kinda grows on you, right?

I remember demo'ing ebikes that didn't appeal to me at first, but then after a few loops round the block, the deal was sealed and I never looked back!

 

[skinnyboy]

Hi Wenna, I am (was) in a similar situation to the one you are in.

Former enduro rider, also used MTB's (since forever ) to cross train for racing. Multiple past leg injuries to lead to final stage arthritis, which had kept me from my MTB (Banshee Titan).

Purchased an Orbea Rise to try to get riding again. Gave the Orbea to my daughter and purchased a YT Decoy 29 for myself so we could ride together. So far 2k km on my YT this year, it has turned our local trail system into a giant BMX track. SO MUCH FUN. Like racing motos again.

I prefer the longer travel of the Decoy to the Rise, and bet you would too. My next bike would (will) be a Rocky Mountain Altitude for a few reasons: 1. Longer travel, as the negatives are less pronounced on an eMTB. 2. Weight not an issue on the trail, in fact it may be a benefit as it helps suspension responsiveness. 3. The big one, Dyname drive. Not having to worry about pedal strikes of bottoming the case damaging your drive would be fantastic. While I have not (touch wood) suffered a Shimano drive failure, and they work well, my interaction with Shimano Canada was not positive at all. A quick call to Rocky Mountain and you can speak to someone who actually knows something and offers constructive info. Positive product support.

Make sure your schedule is open when you get a bike as it will get used a lot!

Cheers.

 

[wenna]

Hi Wenna, I am (was) in a similar situation to the one you are in.

Former enduro rider, also used MTB's (since forever ) to cross train for racing. Multiple past leg injuries to lead to final stage arthritis, which had kept me from my MTB (Banshee Titan).

Purchased an Orbea Rise to try to get riding again. Gave the Orbea to my daughter and purchased a YT Decoy 29 for myself so we could ride together. So far 2k km on my YT this year, it has turned our local trail system into a giant BMX track. SO MUCH FUN. Like racing motos again.

I prefer the longer travel of the Decoy to the Rise, and bet you would too. My next bike would (will) be a Rocky Mountain Altitude for a few reasons: 1. Longer travel, as the negatives are less pronounced on an eMTB. 2. Weight not an issue on the trail, in fact it may be a benefit as it helps suspension responsiveness. 3. The big one, Dyname drive. Not having to worry about pedal strikes of bottoming the case damaging your drive would be fantastic. While I have not (touch wood) suffered a Shimano drive failure, and they work well, my interaction with Shimano Canada was not positive at all. A quick call to Rocky Mountain and you can speak to someone who actually knows something and offers constructive info. Positive product support.

Make sure your schedule is open when you get a bike as it will get used a lot!

Cheers.

Yeah I´m leaning towards 160-170mm travel.
Rocky Mountain is out of my price range, at least here in Europe.

Looking at the geometry numbers, the Canyon Strive ON in size M is like if it was made for me. So I´m leaning heavily towards the Strive even though I find it kind of ugly. But then there is the Canyon Spectral ON which is a better looking bike and the 900wh would be nice to have, so still undecided between them. Will have to see what offers turn up during the winter season.

 

[Base]

The YT bikes look great for the parts and price but the
Shimano motor is lacking for repairing in that department. Also battery it comes with looks lower

Bosch's motor look best all around and you can repair the motor too if you if wanted or at least parts look more readily available.

The Trek rail was my first choice but the size wasn't in stock by me so ended with a giant trance x e2 which is going great. The Reign was another choice but figured it would be too much travel for my riding I do.

Riding with pedal assist makes you still get a work out and power up hills like you are fully fit. I say that cause I've been off a bike for like 5+ years and can ride like I didn't stop.