Something Coming From YT On Friday Apparently...
- Thread starter Kentish
- Start date
TransAmMan
Active member
Looks like a Decoy with a Fox 38 up front and Fox DHX2 Coil out back (plus aluminum rear triangle) ...
The non Kashima options should keep the price lower. Nice ... I'd buy
Makes you wonder what the 2021 offerings will look like ? Likely similar but with the EP8 motor
The non Kashima options should keep the price lower. Nice ... I'd buy
Makes you wonder what the 2021 offerings will look like ? Likely similar but with the EP8 motor
nono
New Member
TransAmMan
Active member
Nice .. but strangely a 51mm offset fork and not a Grip II model ??? ??
All other Decoys and Capra's are 44mm offset ... except the new Capra shred is 51mm as well.
Odd as most manufacturers are moving towards lower offset forks... not larger (Transition set the trend a few years ago with SBG)
I like the concept .. and hope it carries through to 2021 .. but I would very hesitant to go back to a 51mm offset fork. Odd that YT is choosing this offset ... I would guess its to improve straight line "plowing ability" (which is kind of what the bike is geared at) vs the sharper handling offered via a 44mm offset.
Could just be a website error too as the wheelbase GEO specs are the same across the board for all models.
??All other Decoys and Capra's are 44mm offset ... except the new Capra shred is 51mm as well.
Odd as most manufacturers are moving towards lower offset forks... not larger (Transition set the trend a few years ago with SBG)
I like the concept .. and hope it carries through to 2021 .. but I would very hesitant to go back to a 51mm offset fork. Odd that YT is choosing this offset ... I would guess its to improve straight line "plowing ability" (which is kind of what the bike is geared at) vs the sharper handling offered via a 44mm offset.
Could just be a website error too as the wheelbase GEO specs are the same across the board for all models.
Not really a downgrade. It is a 38 not 36. maybe a lateral cahnge but def wouldn't call it a downgrade.
Removed until actual model is confirmed
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Can someone confirm this is the performance or the performance elite model.
YT website says performance. Doesnt mention elite.
But researching silverfish they say its the elite 38.
This isn't the first time YT have done this though. They put elite on the Web page and took photos with the grip 1 damper in the fork.
If its 38 elite then it is indeed better.
YT says "FOX 38 FLOAT PERFORMANCE
29“ | 170mm | 15QRx110 | 51mm Rake
But they use ELITE on the shock....
Second edit:
All photos suggest grip 1 damper.. No elite wording on shock I can see. So my initial comments are correct it looks like.
So I stand by my comment this shock is worse. The 38mm doesn't magically offset the improvement in the far better and far more advanced grip 2.
That damper is a £450 upgrade over grip 1.
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That fork is a new chassis fitted with a 5 year old budget damper.
The damper is the most important and expensive part of the fork. The rest is just marketing.
Even the 2019 model came with the Grip 2 damper. The best damper I have ever used on a fork. Nearly unlimited control and tuneability. Same as comes on the factory race forks.
The damper is the most important and expensive part of the fork. The rest is just marketing.
Even the 2019 model came with the Grip 2 damper. The best damper I have ever used on a fork. Nearly unlimited control and tuneability. Same as comes on the factory race forks.
That's all well and good, but without riding a 38 or trying the bike its impossible to dismiss one way or the other, let alone tell another member they don't understand about suspension.
The chassis plays a big part - for example just going from a factory 34 to a lower end 36 will provide more of a noticeable improvement on an EMTB simply because the chassis flexes less and the suspension performs better as a result. There's no point having the fanciest kit internally if the chassis is overwhelmed. Look at your Kenevo and the dual crown forks on it - what is the biggest benefit/ thing you have noticed as an improvement, the fact its stiffer and the benefits this has over the fact it has a more basic damper? The added stiffness is what you are loving, upgrading the damper is just making it that little bit better.
Point being that a bike is a sum of its parts to ride, and how they work together, it may not be top end kit on the "Shred", but its still more than likely a killer fast fun bike to ride, which is easy to set up and just go ride hard.
The chassis plays a big part - for example just going from a factory 34 to a lower end 36 will provide more of a noticeable improvement on an EMTB simply because the chassis flexes less and the suspension performs better as a result. There's no point having the fanciest kit internally if the chassis is overwhelmed. Look at your Kenevo and the dual crown forks on it - what is the biggest benefit/ thing you have noticed as an improvement, the fact its stiffer and the benefits this has over the fact it has a more basic damper? The added stiffness is what you are loving, upgrading the damper is just making it that little bit better.
Point being that a bike is a sum of its parts to ride, and how they work together, it may not be top end kit on the "Shred", but its still more than likely a killer fast fun bike to ride, which is easy to set up and just go ride hard.
I understand what you are saying and in my lazy posting style i was too direct. But i have to disagree.
Discounting the 34 here because that is fairly lightweight construction by design.
A 36 is more than enough stiffness for all riders including world cup enduro champions. None of them are racing on a 5 year old damper though. The RockShox are all 35mm "only" including the Boxxer which overall won the world championships. So far im seeing no evidence that thicker stanchions offer any performance increases beyond a certain point. If they did then the Fox 40 would wipe the floor.
Also the Boxxer is not stiff, in fact its flexy as hell. The dual crown doesnt prevent flex at all, what it does is allow you to directly influence the stanchions for more direct influence over the direction of the wheel during the flex. This comes down to the carbon wheel versus alu wheel argument about stiffness.
First thing i did was go 2.1 charger on the Boxxer. Because crappy low cost dampers are a real performance downgrade. Quantifiable and noticeable. Not only do they function worse they have almost zero adjustability. That may be ok on a XC bike but on a so called "shred" model i find it quite odd.
I just see marketing taking precedence over performance here. They even put a coil on it to improve small bump compliance but fitted a fork that has no small bump adjustability.. makes zero sense!
Also if you add the cost to upgrade to the Grip 2 then you come out with the full factory fox Pro race model only a few beers away in price.
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Bruni wasn't riding a Boxxer when he won world champs.
He was on Ohlins front and rear.
You don't *need* the most sophisticated damper available unless you genuinely are a threat to podium at world championships. And arguably even if you are, you still don't actually *need* it.
Ergo, even the "sendiest" ebikers probably don't either.
YT have released a couple of models in a certain guise, clearly aimed at a certain type of rider. You're not even interested in it, why bother disecting it to minutae?
He was on Ohlins front and rear.
You don't *need* the most sophisticated damper available unless you genuinely are a threat to podium at world championships. And arguably even if you are, you still don't actually *need* it.
Ergo, even the "sendiest" ebikers probably don't either.
YT have released a couple of models in a certain guise, clearly aimed at a certain type of rider. You're not even interested in it, why bother disecting it to minutae?
That wasn't my point.
My point was that it was a downgrade. I didn't say you "needed" it.
Whilst none of us are racing world Cup I bet most of us actually want some adjustment in our forks. Especially on a model that is £400 more expensive than the CF Pro. (Which has grip 2 fox 36)
An unbiased bike review for example would pick this up as a negative because it that is exactly what it is.
It is one of the first production bikes with a 38 though which makes me think its more about that then out and out performance.
You're wrong.
but don't let that stop you
but don't let that stop you
So you are saying grip 1 is better than grip 2?
Can I just ask you to state which of the following list you'd consider a downgrade and which you'd consider an upgrade?
- If I were to replace the 27.5 wheels on a 2020 27.5 YT Capra with 26" wheels
- If I were to replace a 30mm carbon rim wheelset with a 25mm Aluminium rim wheelset
- If I were to replace a set of 2.4 3C DD highroller II tyres with 2.4 DHF and 2.3 Minion SS in dual compond Exo
- If I were to fit a 2017 debonair spring to a 2020 Lyrik
- If i were to replace a coil shock with an air shock on a 170mm travel FS bike
- If I were to replace a 12 speed XT microspline drivetrain with a 10 speed SAINT HG drivetrain
- If I were to choose a frame one whole size smaller that the manufacturers recomended size for my height
- If I were to fit a fork (exactly same model) with a LONGER offset than it was spec'd with
- If I were to swap out a current top of the line Fox 36 for Lyrik
- If I were to swap my 32T chainring for a 36T (same model)
Samz101
Member
.play nicely girls! ?
Oooh Oooh .. I know this one ... it's a trick question ! I shall reveal no more though ..
That list is pointless and irrelevant and has nothing to do with that fork and you still can't answer the question.
Fox 36 grip 2 fork is better than the fox 38 grip 1.
I challenge anyone to prove to me that a 5 year old damper with no independent high-speed and low speed compression settings and a bunch of cost cutting design measures will outperform the Fox 36 factory/performance elite.
By your own logic nobody "needs" the Grip2 but the same logic says nobody "needs" 38mm stanchions either.
The difference is that nobody will be able to tell the difference between the 36 and 38 but it is widely known that everyone can feel the upgrade to the better damper. Nothing else in the fork has a bigger impact on feel than the damper.
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my list of questions to you was far from pointless or irellevant. It was an attempt to educate you. But you're a lost cause.
Continue moaning
on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and...
Continue moaning
on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and on and on and on...and...
Spend a bit of time reading suspension threads online or speaking to riders in real life and you'll very quickly realise just how few even have the vaguest clue how to set-up high and low speed damping independently. Never mind get the ultimate performance from the latest most sophisticated suspension designs. I'm not just talking about noobs or beginners here either. plenty actual senders (including full time pro riders) don't.
You seem to be saying you personally DO understand how to set-up the grip 2 well, but, if you were one of those less clued up riders, and about to hit a pro line with a bunch of 50-70ft jumps do you think you'd rather be doing it on a badly set-up 36mm stanchion fork with a Grip 2 damper or a well set-up 38mm stanchion fork with a grip 1 damper?
and (ignoring entirely the actual chassis difference) which of the two would give you most confidence?
Yes. it's marketing. Of course it is. but that still doesn't make the 36 Grip 2 fork the better choice (or even an upgrade of real value) for EVERYONE!
FWIW I have Zero interest in owning either fork
You seem to be saying you personally DO understand how to set-up the grip 2 well, but, if you were one of those less clued up riders, and about to hit a pro line with a bunch of 50-70ft jumps do you think you'd rather be doing it on a badly set-up 36mm stanchion fork with a Grip 2 damper or a well set-up 38mm stanchion fork with a grip 1 damper?
and (ignoring entirely the actual chassis difference) which of the two would give you most confidence?
Yes. it's marketing. Of course it is. but that still doesn't make the 36 Grip 2 fork the better choice (or even an upgrade of real value) for EVERYONE!
FWIW I have Zero interest in owning either fork
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TransAmMan
Active member
I think we have semantics at play here
A Fox 38 Grip fork is a LOWER spec (pricepoint) than a Fox 38 Grip2. I am sure we can all agree on that one
The question ultimately comes down to (and apply this to any bike) .. does the price warrant the part spec ?? One of the biggest knocks against the "Big S" is the price they charge for bikes with a LOT of house branded parts ... and that is a fair argument.
Not taking sides in this one (just reading with my popcorn bowl in front of me) .. but for the price being asked I would have expected to see a Fox 38 Grip2 fork offering on this bike (not getting into performance between both models)
I still think its a website error and will be updated ... but who knows.
A Fox 38 Grip fork is a LOWER spec (pricepoint) than a Fox 38 Grip2. I am sure we can all agree on that one
The question ultimately comes down to (and apply this to any bike) .. does the price warrant the part spec ?? One of the biggest knocks against the "Big S" is the price they charge for bikes with a LOT of house branded parts ... and that is a fair argument.
Not taking sides in this one (just reading with my popcorn bowl in front of me
) .. but for the price being asked I would have expected to see a Fox 38 Grip2 fork offering on this bike (not getting into performance between both models)I still think its a website error and will be updated ... but who knows.
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KenX
E*POWAH Master
...................
Ok. mate I'm stepping away from this thread and your bullshit now.
You clearly don't know half as much as you're trying to make out you do.
I think we have semantics at play here
A Fox 38 Grip fork is a LOWER spec (pricepoint) than a Fox 38 Grip2. I am sure we can all agree on that one
The question ultimately comes down to (and apply this to any bike) .. does the price warrant the part spec ?? One of the biggest knocks against the "Big S" is the price they charge for bikes with a LOT of house branded parts ... and that is a fair argument.
Not taking sides in this one (just reading with my popcorn bowl in front of me
I still think its a website error and will be updated ... but who knows.
I dont think its an error. The photos back up the description. Can clearly see the trail switch on the 38.
I sell, service and set-up Fox forks for a living you fecking tool
JMD
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