So I started to crave a 'normal' bike....

[Northumbrian]

.

I think one of the main issues with E-Bikes is learning not to use the motor modes like gears, if you use the gears as normal, using the full range and really trying to replicate how you would ride on a normal make it makes quite a difference - so for example if you are pushing a high gear in a low cadence on Turbo and hit the limiter you will really feel it, but if you are in trail, or ECO, and pushing a higher cadence its less noticeable, at least to me.

But thats the beauty of them is that they have a different place for different folks, and the ability to go exploring on them is one of the best aspects.

Couldn’t agree more !

 

[Kernow]

It's not often I have to disagree but I do on this. I can only go by my experience but on my e sentier I literally spent just short of £100 changing tyres to thinner and less knobbly as to make a difference and it may have made a slight difference...maybe....but defiantly nothing really noticeable and feels like a waste of money to have done it. Literally hit 15mph and pedalling like mad and the motor resistance is that much sometimes when I'm in the swing of full on aggression pedalling stood up it can nearly OTB me when motor kicks out and then it hits the treacle....

You need to derestrict it , you’ll never progress if your cut out unbalances you on every little spin up and don’t worry you won’t be pedaling everywhere at 25-30 mph like a motorbike . That’s a myth , it’s only 250 w and doesn’t give endless power to double speed

 

[Slowroller]

It's only 250w on the label , there's a bunch more under the hood lol

 

[khorn]

It's only 250w on the label , there's a bunch more under the hood lol

Agree, companies are really cheating regarding nominal effect. Test of a 2017 Levo have shown that it produced around 660 watts of continuous power - A nice double up + according to a class 1 Ebike ?

Karsten

 

[Dax]

You need to derestrict it , you’ll never progress if your cut out unbalances you on every little spin up and don’t worry you won’t be pedaling everywhere at 25-30 mph like a motorbike . That’s a myth , it’s only 250 w and doesn’t give endless power to double speed

This sounds like a technique error rather than needing more speed. If you need to crank really hard into a jump, look at jumping technique.

 

[R120]

Intersting to see on the new ask embn vid how Chris Smith admits he and Sam Pilgrim de restrict their bikes when riding big jumps.

 

[Deleted member 1275]

First rule of little black box club is we don't talk about little black box club

Motors

Thanks R120. Apologies - I had completely missed that whole section of the forum!! Doh!

 

[Gary]

This sounds like a technique error rather than needing more speed. If you need to crank really hard into a jump, look at jumping technique.

Depends on the jump and where it is. There's no way you'd ever clear the first straight jumps on my local BMX track on a restricted Emtb.
Jumps on a downslope aren't a problem restricted as you hold speed fine, jumps on the flat or with a flat run in after the roll in are.
Emtbs are also awful on tight technical dirt jump trails - but de-restricting them wouldn't help this.

I have very good jumping technique BTW.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Intersting to see on the new ask embn vid how Chris Smith admits he and Sam Pilgrim de restrict their bikes when riding big jumps.

I can see why. Never gave this a second thought until on my second ride out, first decent gap jump i had to miss it because i couldn't get enough speed to clear it. (flat run in)

 

[Gary]

Intersting to see on the new ask embn vid how Chris Smith admits he and Sam Pilgrim de restrict their bikes when riding big jumps.

Interesting thing for me in that episde was how much of a tool Steve was. Firstly about the guy asking how to do the boner drop and saying DON'T DO IT!, then answering another question saying you shouldn't be climbing an Emtb stood up. and then worst of all butting in and belittling Chris for giving decent advice on how to lift the rear end. His advice as usual was terrible. Such a shame he never embraced jumping back when he was a younger man and a very fast Downhill racer and now obviously feels too old to learn. Even with 3 of the UKs best jumpers/coaches working alongside him.

 

[Krisj]

'Nuff said really

I Second that dude
That’s one sick video

 

[Gary]

Tea drinking quiet spoken little guy Ben Reid is one sick dude

 

[Bongofish]

So here she is. I'm impressed by her looks . Changed the pedals over and took all the safety reflectors off etc etc. Just been out for 2 mins on her and boy....riding an e bike has really made me forget what riding a non e bike is like again. Having to use gears properly , no assistance etc etc. I only round round my estate and got a bit of a sweat on...haha. I'll have a little bit longer on it tomorrow and make sure tyre pressures are spot on etc etc. I think she's a cracking looking bike. Breaks are really soft though so not sure if they just need a lot longer to bed in or whether I'll need to take it to get them bled. Get some new tyres on it and new bar and grips and then next year upgrade the forks and brakes and should be a sweet little project ?

 

[Bongofish]

P.s I can already tell a non e bike won't replace my e bike. But I am stoked to have a little work horse when I want to keep my best safe and out of all the winter salt and grime on some days and to have an upgrade project.

 

[Dax]

Depends on the jump and where it is. There's no way you'd ever clear the first straight jumps on my local BMX track on a restricted Emtb.

And yet you would clear them on a regular bike? Is that because the regular bike is half the weight, so needs less momentum to jump, or you can crank your regular bike faster without hitting treacle?

I think the feeling of hitting treacle is a psychological issue, have a regular bike in the same gear as the ebike at 15mph, it will feel the same, at least for shimano and browse. I agree the bosch system is flawed.

 

[clay walker]

I Second that dude
That’s one sick video

That dude is a bad ass

 

[Gary]

And yet you would clear them on a regular bike? Is that because the regular bike is half the weight, so needs less momentum to jump, or you can crank your regular bike faster without hitting treacle?

Like I've already said, it depends on the jump (and the gradient between them).
Take my local BMX track for instance. Start hill> tripple (single roller to step-up double) > double > bigger double - flat inbetween and usually into a headwind. On my BMX or 4X bike the line is an all our sprint at aguess hitting all transitions somewhere between 25-30mph. Just not do-able on a 48lb Emtb restricted to 14.5mph assist.
another example. Local dirt jumps, one line is a flat pedal at about 20-22mph ish into a roller/speed jump then a shallow bowl into the line of tight steep tombstone doubles. holding momentum into the speed jump then getting sufficient pump after it and getting through the entire line just isn't anywhere near as easily do-able as on a bmx or DJ bike. Not impossible but the effort you have to put into pumping and lifting the bike is horrendous.
and a third example. Trail centre RED descents like you find at places like Glentress, Ae Forest etc., They're on the whole flat AF bermed hardpack sprint fests but have lots of jumps, a lot of those jumps are best hit at above 17mph... I can't actually be arsed finishing this example.. .hopefully you'll get it by now.

I think the feeling of hitting treacle is a psychological issue, have a regular bike in the same gear as the ebike at 15mph, it will feel the same, at least for shimano and browse. I agree the bosch system is flawed.

I ride my Emtb switched OFF a lot. it's not psycological. it weighs 17-25lb more than my other non-Emtbs. it's 13lb heavier than my DH bikes FFS. Above 14.5mph restricted it accelerates like a towing dead pig behind you on the flat. "Accelerates" being the key word here. holding 17mph on the flat isn't difficult. Sprinting to 25-30 is.

I didn't mention "treacle" once! The "treacle" feeling is IMO a phenomenon caused by weak riders and super draggy tyres. (with the Shimano motor anyway). I run fast rolling tyres on my Emtb and ride normal bikes a lot so i'm not weak.

Gearing isn't the issue either. My Cadence range is huge and I generally don't change gear at all jumping, descenting trail centres or at the BMX track on a non Ebike

Don't get me wrong. My Emtb is awesome at almost all mtb riding but it's certainly not without it's flaws. And I wouldn't ever pretend otherwise.

Disclaimer: I haven't ever ridden a Bosch motor so have no idea what motor drag feels like

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Intersting to see on the new ask embn vid how Chris Smith admits he and Sam Pilgrim de restrict their bikes when riding big jumps.

Interesting thing for me in that episde was how much of a tool Steve was. Firstly about the guy asking how to do the boner drop and saying DON'T DO IT!, then answering another question saying you shouldn't be climbing an Emtb stood up. and then worst of all butting in and belittling Chris for giving decent advice on how to lift the rear end. His advice as usual was terrible. Such a shame he never embraced jumping back when he was a younger man and a very fast Downhill racer and now obviously feels too old to learn. Even with 3 of the UKs best jumpers/coaches working alongside him.

Dude so true. Just watching the new chat video. He keeps on interrupting all the time when Chris was making some really good points. Nearly commented on the video to say so.

 

[Northumbrian]

I ride my Emtb switched OFF a lot. it's not psycological. it weighs 17-25lb more than my other non-Emtbs. it's 13lb heavier than my DH bikes FFS. Above 14.5mph restricted it accelerates like a towing dead pig behind you on the flat. "Accelerates" being the key word here. holding 17mph on the flat isn't difficult. Sprinting to 25-30 is.

I didn't mention "treacle" once! The "treacle" feeling is IMO a phenomenon caused by weak riders and super draggy tyres. (with the Shimano motor anyway). I run fast rolling tyres on my Emtb and ride normal bikes a lot so i'm not weak.

Gearing isn't the issue either. My Cadence range is huge and I generally don't change gear at all jumping, descenting trail centres or at the BMX track on a non Ebike

Don't get me wrong. My Emtb is awesome at almost all mtb riding but it's certainly not without it's flaws. And I wouldn't ever pretend otherwise.

Agree with the “treacle” syndrome ....when I’m fresh I don’t feel the 15mph barrier so much, further into the ride it starts to become more and more noticeable, this is due to fairly strong legs but lacking in stamina.

I do think however there is an element of psyhcology, I think my brain struggles to calibrate different levels of assist, example. I set off in eco and my brain must benchmark to a normal bike and I think eco is sooooo easy ( compared to no assist on my traditional mtb.)
Ride in Trail mode for a while, drop into Eco and it feels like I’m dragging that dead pig again.....not soooo easy now!!
So, like I say my brain can’t calibrate, probs due to it being 60yrs old and worn out....( just like my legs)
Anyhows....That’s how I see it !

 

[John_A]

Just found this thread. Coming from riding ‘proper’ bikes years ago, I thought I’d try an ebike as a way to get back in to it now I’m not so fit. However, a few months ago I bought a Whyte 529 hardtail and the Orbea Rise sits in the garage looking sorry for itself! Seriously thing about selling it and getting an Oiz or maybe an Occam. Just back from 20 miles in the rain and really feel good about myself, hills are a slog, it that’s all part of the fun!

 

[Julie_X1]

@Bongofish maybe the answer is to go and hire or demo regular bikes every once in a while. It’s a lot cheaper than buying, you can try all sorts of different types and flavours and it will give you an idea if there really is room in your life for one.

It’s a slippery slope though, folk seem to have just one bike or they have a number of bikes don’t see many with just two!

That’s also what I’m planning to do. Seems like I’ve caught the N + 1 bug too.

I recently was able to demo a couple of bikes I was curious about, and it reinforced that, although they were good bikes, I preferred my own. Parking lot try outs are probably not enough to get a good flavour, so I likely will rent on occasion when I travel to get that taste!

EDIT: Oh and in regards to the original question, I did buy an analogue after my e-bike. It was an unplanned, spontaneous decision as a result of the incredible sales that started in the spring and a test ride that blew me away. The analogue is a very different type of bike though. Very light and nimble. A very different but oh so fun in different ways experience.

I hope to never be without an e-mtb. But I’d also love to always have an analogue bike.

 

[Julie_X1]

Just found this thread. Coming from riding ‘proper’ bikes years ago, I thought I’d try an ebike as a way to get back in to it now I’m not so fit. However, a few months ago I bought a Whyte 529 hardtail and the Orbea Rise sits in the garage looking sorry for itself! Seriously thing about selling it and getting an Oiz or maybe an Occam. Just back from 20 miles in the rain and really feel good about myself, hills are a slog, it that’s all part of the fun!

An Oiz is what I ended up getting. I absolutely adore that bike.

Test ride both!

 

[John_A]

An Oiz is what I ended up getting. I absolutely adore that bike.

Test ride both!

The Oiz is probably the main contender. It’s a lovely looking bike

 

[militantmandy]

Best to have both. I wouldn't sell my Privateer. It's amazing for uplift, holidays, munros, hike a bike etc.