So do we like these new lite bikes?

[John_A]

Was just about to pull the trigger on a Jam2 6.9, my first proper EMTB and decided not to and wait to see what comes out in 2023. It seems the market is going to be flooded with low weight (relatively), low powered bikes. While I can see the attraction, I think I'd still prefer a full-fat EMTB. What are people's thoughts? Is it going to all go lite?

 

[Bummers]

It's just more choice for different situations. A full fat suits me far more than a low powered small battery lite e-bike does. If however I was much fitter and enjoyed the grind then lite emtb would really appeal.

 

[steve_sordy]

I have only ever tried one "low powered" bike and that was a Kellys (Theos i50, I think). It had the low power Shimano motor on it, a 60Nm torque one. It did everything I wanted it to do on the trail I did in France, and I was very impressed with it. It altered my opinion about less than full fat bikes. I would prefer to give one a proper try on my home trail before flashing the cash though.

 

[Stihldog]

I like the EXE and if I was fit and lived elsewhere this would be the perfect bike. But I’m not and I don’t. The 625w gen4 Bosch Rail “Tank” is my daily ride.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Horses for courses I'm afraid. What you need is one of each as neither touches the sides of the other category niche.

 

[fodmtb]

Defiantly recommend you demo both offerings. Only you can chose what you like best.
I was full fat initially for three years but then went SL and prefer it.. But thats just what I like

 

[John_A]

Horses for courses I'm afraid. What you need is one of each as neither touches the sides of the other category niche.

Like your thinking

 

[2WheelsNot4]

I think its the evolution of the genera. They're clearly been feedback from riders about full fatties being too heavy and the market is trying to address those issues.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Actually the FF's are not too heavy, they are just a combination of parts that are needed for the extra loads incurred and to carry a motor and energy storage big enough to move our fat arses uphill. If you want a true light weight then its purely gravity power which means no motor and battery and by consequence much lighter engineered frames and running gear.

That then leaves why a lightweight category after all they are maybe only 7 pints of beer lighter. An awful lot of us are probably at least 10 pints over weight so could we simply go on our own personal diets ? Maybe but physics and when man made the wheel with almost frictionless bearings, then he changed the script somewhat of what is needed to move weight uphill.

I digress, owning both forms, a FF and Lightweight, they are very different and do fill a category of their own. Which do I prefer, well I like them both and now I have both, I'm not going to pick one as they are very different. What I have done though is sell all my analogue bikes. The lightweight does everything the analogue did and gives me a smile when I get to the top of the hill puffing away as usual, but having swapped km average speeds to mph average speeds I got to enjoy 60% more scenery.

 

[Gyre]

Until a big revolution in battery energy density occurs and trickles down to eMTBs, we'll continue to see at least FF and lightweight branches on the eMTB tree for the foreseeable future (i.e. it isn't going to "go all lite").

As far as which way to go, it's just a matter of knowing yourself.

I just took my KSL on Lower Rock Creek - a long technical trail that I've never tried on an eMTB before - and to me it handled like a regular MTB. When I arrived at the bottom after sunset with my car miles away and thousands of feet above me, having the help to get back quickly in the dark and cold was amazing.

That said, power and range matters. It's much harder to do uphill tech without the power of an FF, and FFs make it easier to ride to distant trailheads without using a car.

 

[irie]

.

It's much harder to do uphill tech without the power of an FF, and FFs make it easier to ride to distant trailheads without using a car.

This ^^^

It's a trade off.

 

[Pdoz]

My prediction is that jam 2 is going to be an orphan in a year , which is about how long it'll take you to know if you want a powerful or light bike, and I suspect by then we will have the option of a light powerful bike.

That jam is heavy amongst the heavy bikes, yet doesn't have a particularly large battery or long travel suspension. In the nicest possible way....WTF was Focus thinking?

 

[Zimmerframe]

My prediction is that jam 2 is going to be an orphan in a year , which is about how long it'll take you to know if you want a powerful or light bike, and I suspect by then we will have the option of a light powerful bike.

That jam is heavy amongst the heavy bikes, yet doesn't have a particularly large battery or long travel suspension. In the nicest possible way....WTF was Focus thinking?

It is heavy. But then it has Mary's as standard and everything else is well spec'd for the price.

At the same time, once you're on it, it hides it's weight incredibly well and feels light, agile and very fast. It's also very neutral and confidence inspiring and has magic abilities (I fall off about 1 once every 1000km's on the Jam compared to about once every 20km's on the Kenevo).

I keep thinking I want a lightweight .. But then I enjoy EMTB mode and know I'd miss that on a lightweight and I'm still not convinced that for how I ride, a lightweight would be any better/faster/more fun (for me).

 

[Zimmerframe]

Personally for the OP, I think he's made a mistake. Too often with bikes and the way they're sold, we always think the next latest and greatest thing is just around the corner which will transform how we ride. The reality is that it's always evolution and not revolution and often it's just a change in compromises.

By not getting his Jam2 now, he's going to miss out on smiles per miles. We only live once. What will next year bring ? Yup, the 6.9 will have the 750wh battery and smart system . Will that make any difference to his rides ? Probably not, unless he wants to go a long way or do a lot of fast long climbs - which he's previously said he wouldn't be.

Yes, a lightweight should in theory be "lighter" .. so it will be easier to move around when not on it and to a degree, when on it. But it will have less power and a smaller battery - You're electing to do more work yourself - that's a choice. It also won't be as stable and forgiving when descending.

Is that "better" ? Worth waiting for ? Depends on what you want really. Will we have dozens of full power 20 and 21kg full power bikes next year ? Yes, if you want delicate tyres, small brakes, skinny droppers, trail wheels and less capable suspension. Batteries aren't suddenly going to halve in weight for the same power. Motors won't suddenly halve in mass. An ep8 is only about 30% heavier than a Fazua or a TQ. Components generally get stronger, more rigid, have in built wifi and satellite and get heavier. Frames won't suddenly only weigh 100g.

 

[RustyMTB]

Love my Jam2, all the way until I get to a locked gate.

 

[Streddaz]

Was just about to pull the trigger on a Jam2 6.9, my first proper EMTB and decided not to and wait to see what comes out in 2023. It seems the market is going to be flooded with low weight (relatively), low powered bikes. While I can see the attraction, I think I'd still prefer a full-fat EMTB. What are people's thoughts? Is it going to all go lite?

I think it all comes down to what you are expecting from a bike and that can be several deciding factors.

Your fitness: Are you already a fit, confident rider on a non-Emtb? A light weight Ebike is more suited to someone that just wants a bit more assistance on the climbs and who his looking at extending a ride that they would have done on a non-Emtb. A Full Fat bike is more suited to someone that just wants to get to the top as fast as possible and plough through everything on the way back down.

Do you want it to feel more like a non-Ebike? The lightweight bikes do feel closer to a non-Ebike, more poppy and easier to move around on the trail and in the air. The Full Fat bikes tend to be more stable at speed and plough through a lot of chunder easier.

I have a Levo SL and love it. I can definitely feel the weight difference compared to my 13kg Norco Sight, but it feels a lot more manoeuvrable and playful that a few Full Fats that I've ridden.

 

[Doomanic]

I was full fat initially for three years but then went SL and prefer it.. But thats just what I like

4 years on FFs, and a year on an SL. I know which I prefer.

 

[Waynemarlow]

4 years on FFs, and a year on an SL. I know which I prefer.

You tend to do a lot more bike park downhill type of riding ? Are you saying that the SL is now your preferred stead ?

 

[yorkshire89]

Totally depends on the rider, try both and see what you prefer.

If sometimes you don't have alot of time to ride, or want to get loads of descending in a day, full fat works best.. But it's heavier and not quite as flickable as a lighter weight ebike. Not always a bad thing depending on the trails you ride though.

I ride in golfie Scotland once a month or so. The climb from town to the top is around 1300ft. It's usually a good 60-80 mins on a normal bike. I can do it in 17 mins on a full power ebike (using steeper tracks up). It's crazy how much riding you can get in a short time. It does use about 25% battery though so I do have a second for bigger days.

Even on more local stuff with a ~100m climb, you just get lap after lap in. Sometimes overtaking the same people on the same climb twice. FF is quite addictive and I'm not sure I'd want a lightweight, I do ride my normal bike a fair amount still though...

 

[Mteam]

agree with pretty much everything written by everyone above , in an ideal world you'd probably have both types of bike, but if you can only have one then I suspect a full fat fulfils more people needs more of the time.

I have fuel exe and an orbea wild fs - I'm trying to decide if I should get rid of the wild fs, but I think on those days that yorkshire89 above talks about when you just want to smash out laps, then they're pretty good.

 

[Doomanic]

You tend to do a lot more bike park downhill type of riding ? Are you saying that the SL is now your preferred stead ?

Yes; the benefits on the downs more than outweigh the pain of the ups.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes; the benefits on the downs more than outweigh the pain of the ups.

I'm presuming you use multiple batteries ?

 

[Doomanic]

I have a range extender, so 480Wh total.

 

[steve_sordy]

My prediction is that jam 2 is going to be an orphan in a year , which is about how long it'll take you to know if you want a powerful or light bike, and I suspect by then we will have the option of a light powerful bike.

That jam is heavy amongst the heavy bikes, yet doesn't have a particularly large battery or long travel suspension. In the nicest possible way....WTF was Focus thinking?

My 2019 Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE (carbon framed 29er) weighed 20.4kg (with pedals, heavier grips and tyres). It had the 378Whr battery in the frame and for longer rides I could add another 378Whr to the down tube (another 2.2kg). The motor was the Shimano e8000 with 70Nm never gave me a problem.

The bike was an absolute delight to ride and was my first emtb. I did 3500 miles on it before getting a very good price for it. I have fond memories of that bike. I doubt I would buy one of the new Focus bikes that are heavier than my old bike with the extra 2.2kg battery fitted and a smaller battery too!

 

[Pdoz]

My 2019 Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE (carbon framed 29er) weighed 20.4kg (with pedals, heavier grips and tyres). It had the 378Whr battery in the frame and for longer rides I could add another 378Whr to the down tube (another 2.2kg). The motor was the Shimano e8000 with 70Nm never gave me a problem.

The bike was an absolute delight to ride and was my first emtb. I did 3500 miles on it before getting a very good price for it. I have fond memories of that bike. I doubt I would buy one of the new Focus bikes that are heavier than my old bike with the extra 2.2kg battery fitted and a smaller battery too!

The original jam 2 was ahead of its time, Imagine where we would be if focus had persevered with the design instead of chasing big whatevers!

Feb 2019 , on our way back from a 45 km ride with 100 other ebikes. My daughter managed the trip including 1200 m climbing WITHOUT the range extender! I still have that 2018 giant on the right, but rarely ride it because my levo SL is so much more fun

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The original jam 2 was ahead of its time, Imagine where we would be if focus had persevered with the design instead of chasing big whatevers!

There was just no real market for it back then. everyone wanted full power and big batteries. Ironically many people say the new Focus Jam SL look like an Orbea Rise... But the Orbea Rise was similar to the OG Focus Jam lightweight (motor / fixed small internal battery / super light concept)

I really like the lightweight ebikes going down, but I find that I actually really enjoy steep, technical climbs that I find i can only achieve on a full power bike. I get as much enjoyment now tacking steep rock slabs, or riding off piste up stupidly tough climbs and i can only do this on FF.

 

[Zimmerframe]

There was just no real market for it back then. everyone wanted full power and big batteries. Ironically many people say the new Focus Jam SL look like an Orbea Rise... But the Orbea Rise was similar to the OG Focus Jam lightweight!!

The rise wasn't "like" the Orignal Jam SL .. it was pretty much a complete copy of a JAM SL ..

It is funny how times/marketing/desires/belief's vary what we want .. we're all as bad as each other ! :-D

 

[militantmandy]

Depends what you want. My ebike miles are on my own, usually after work. My local climb is an hour on a normal bike. With the eeb I want to bang out as many laps as possible in a short time frame, so full fat makes more sense. I've ridden a Levo SL a fair bit. Great bike, but just too slow uphill for my needs.

 

[MarkE192]

I agree with millitantmandy. For me its not only where you ride but who you are riding with. I went from Levo to levo SL to Kenevo SL. I was riding riding mostly by myself or with my wife and found I enjoyed riding the SL more than the FF Levo. Then my buddies pick up FF bikes and when riding with them I could not keep up and if I worked hard enough to try I was so tired I was not enjoying my time on the bike. Now I am fortunate enough to have both. If I am riding by myself or with my wife I always gravitate to my SL. If I go out with my buddies I grab my FF. IF was forced to only have 1 I would probably keep the FF as it has the most versatility for where and who I ride with. Hopefully I won't have to make that choice any time soon!!

 

[Binhill1]

Was just about to pull the trigger on a Jam2 6.9, my first proper EMTB and decided not to and wait to see what comes out in 2023. It seems the market is going to be flooded with low weight (relatively), low powered bikes. While I can see the attraction, I think I'd still prefer a full-fat EMTB. What are people's thoughts? Is it going to all go lite?

Age and type of riding a factor for many. Yesterday i met two people I used to cycle with who are in their late 40s . They were on borrowed ebikes a one off trial for them. They both ride Nicolai Geometron bikes very high spec . They both thought too heavy on Ebike and can't throw them about like their normal bikes. Seen some serious riding pictures on this forum. So they would agree on the lighter Ebike idea.