Skills advice...How to?

[Flog]

Hi All.
On todays ride, got myself up a fair old grass hill and went to see what was on the other side.... Yep, more grass and the downhill bit! If I was in the pub, I would say the angle was 90* degrees! But guessing about 55-60* - when I was traversing I hit my up hill pedal a fair few times.

So my question is.... How do I get down and how do I turn on a slope that steep. As a skier, I would just say start off, weight your uphill ski, off load to down hill, trust yourself and your skis and you will turn... I'm a pretty good skier and not a lot phases me. On me bike, jeeeeezzz, I got off, turned it around, remounted and traversed, repeat, repeat repeat and I was down.

Whats the go with steeps and turning??

 

[#lazy]

Drop your seat , get your arse over the back if it and keep your toes pointing up . If you need to break I use both but more pressure on the rear and try not to lock up and trust the bike ! Keep doing it and you’ll find your groove ?

 

[Gary]

Keep your weight low and centred. Not way off the back.
And use BOTH brakes properly. Ie. your front brake to slow Down. Rear to maintain speed. (as opposed to accelerating) and don't lock it. Unless you intentionally want to initiate a drift to turn or step the back end out.
Braking while turning reduces traction so try to scrub speed in a straight line.
If you maintain a neutral balanced position your wheels will also grip equally.
The turning part is all about good line choice, correct speed and comittment.
Traversing severe cambers you want to more weight on the outside of the bike. dropping the pedal that's towards the bottom of the hill increases grip and stability.. Once you get used to this you'll drop pedals less. But instinctively know when you need to.
As with skiing, the more you do it the quicker you'll get the hang of it. And as with learning skiing always look where you want to go.

 

[R120]

I would add trust the bike and the tyres, this is what they are designed to do, e.g your tires have big F off knobs on the side, use em! - i used to be a snowboard instructor, and i always told people the board has been designed to make it easy to do what its designed to do, all you have to do is trust it, relax, and apply the correct technique. The commonality between a lot of these sports is keeping your head up and looking forward to where you want to go, not at what's below you, weight centred, not getting tense, and going with it for once of a better phrase.

You tube is a goldmine of both good and bad advice, but generally speaking the GMBN stuff is really good, and I also quite like this guy

Rich Drew

 

[Flog]

Thanks for the theory. I appreciate this is hard to imagine and harder to try and explain, but
1/ What sort of angle are we looking at traversing down, and presuming after the turn we keep that angle of traverse going....
2/ Are we looking at quite a wide arc turn (lets call it a snow plough turn or more of a parallel sharp/tight turn??)
3/ What speed are we looking at to make the turn?
I know all will say to all the above..."You'll know when you do it...!!!" but just trying to save the dents and bruises!

 

[Gary]

4. STOP OVERTHINKING IT

 

[Flog]

 

[#lazy]

I thought he meant a step hill ?

 

[urastus]

Breaking things down and focusing on one thing at a time might help. #1 would probably be weight distribution? My understanding, and how I ride (and already mentioned by Garry above), is "light hands, heavy feet". It's a well used phrase in MTB. Basically, have all your weight on the pedals, your hands (regardless of the angle) should be weightless - no force pulling on the front of the bar, or pushing on the rear or top of the bar. I think the weight distribution would be the same in skiing (weight central)?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

So my question is.... How do I get down and how do I turn on a slope that steep...

Yes, don't over think things - when descending... muscle-memory is your best and only friend once you commit.

However, my suggestion is to FIRST develop this muscle memory gradually before you tackle very steep extreme descends. Without prior experience to draw upon, that's when over-reasoning can kick-in and it's not a good place to be. You can think things through however, over progressive training sessions BUT the idea is to develop a 'feel' for it, so that you can switch-off thinking and switch-on instinct once you've launched yourself past the point of no return in an actual run.

• If you are a beginner (otherwise ignore the rest), start on a descending hill section that you know you can tackle then gradually find steeper and steeper sections as your skills and confidence increase.

• The repositioning of WHERE you "rest" your body weight against the bike will change it's handling dramatically. Standing, places your weight low on the crank axle (or BB) of your bike frame. Your leading and trailing foot should be approx 3 and 9 o'clock with pliable bent knees. I cringe when I see riders standup with one foot down (6 o'clock).
Remaining seated places your weight higher up on the saddle obviously, but also onto the handlebars if you have to prop yourself up. There are also short slow-speed descends and long high-speed descends and the technique or advice you get will obviously vary depending on who you're talking to. Not knowing when you can sit and when you really have to stand (or even when the saddle really has to be dropped), is a recipe for disaster.

For short very steep descends, stand up and get your butt off and behind the saddle. If you have a dropper post, drop your saddle height beforehand. It's still doable if you don't, as long as you don't have a beer belly. How far behind the saddle you move all depends - and you'll only know this instinctively if you've gradually progressed to the level you're attempting. I've seen guys who regularly do almost-vertical long drops with tyre marks on their crotches.

For long sustained descends, you can't always remain standing so you'll have to sit every now and then. A dropped saddle will obviously help lower your CG but it's not always necessary. Just sit as far back as you can to minimise propping yourself up too much from the handlebars. Stand where you need to, and then sit back down again whenever - for the long haul.

Brake Control:
Don't assume that every MTBiker knows how to hold handlebars properly. You cannot be supple and relaxed with the brakes if you're holding the bar grips incorrectly. So index fingers relaxed and over the brake levers, the rest on the grips - you can "white-knuckle" those all you like when holding-on for dear life... but the braking index fingers must remain relaxed and supple... especially if you unintentionally go airborne and land on the front wheel. I've seen too many videos of riders locking up the front brakes when their front end hits the ground... the sudden impact causing them to suddenly grip the bars harder - brakes included.

Learning Curve varies from person to person:
Naturally gifted beginners will just 'jump straight in' and pull things off first time, as if they've been doing it for years. Others need practice, practice, practice. Which reminds me of an acquaintance who basically went riding along with a group, without having any experience regarding just about all of the points mentioned above. Despite all efforts to persuade him to take the 'by-pass' on certain steep sections, he just felt he needed to go for it. Eventually he ended up unconscious at the bottom of a long drop, with a taco front wheel, with blood frothing from his mouth. Not much fun for him when he woke up, nor the rest of the group who had to slowly walk him out (and the broken bike) for about a mile out of a deep valley.

Turning? Down a 55-60° slope? I'm assuming it's a grassy hill and not an established trail... so I probably won't attempt something that steep to begin with - especially if the only way to get down it requires turning. Grass will be hiding some nasty surprises too. If I did, I would pick the most gentle slope and go straight down - but slow with continual brake scrub, not allowing the bike to speed-up right from the start.

 

[Flog]

Turning? Down a 55-60° slope? I'm assuming it's a grassy hill and not an established trail... so I probably won't attempt something that steep to begin with -

Exactly that - its not a run, just a field on an angle... a hill!! I think if it was a 'run' it would be easier to follow as you're told where to turn and then you can adjust speed to accommodate the corners.
Thank you for the advice and encouragement, I'll go and practice, will try and take some pics and post.
Thanks and have a good day.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Keep your weight low and centred. Not way off the back.
And use BOTH brakes properly. Ie. your front brake to slow Down. Rear to maintain speed. (as opposed to accelerating) and don't lock it. Unless you intentionally want to initiate a drift to turn or step the back end out.

All hail the grumpy one !

Over my last 18 months of intensive crashing learning I seem to have developed some bad "defensive" riding techniques. I must be pretty close to triple figures on OTB, so I seem to have slowly worked my body position back too far on steep descents and developed a technique of brake bias towards the rear so I don't flip over the front.

Today ... I had his words in my head "och, ya we big nosed to55er, git ya weyet duwn un use the front brake to take yar speid orf"

What a revelation. On a 28% downhill where I normally OTB at least twice, I could actually control my speed, turn .. and stay on the bike !

Merci for the tips ! Keep it up and don't be so grumpy about it.

 

[Gary]

Mon. Uh've OTB'd hunners ay tiymes. Ye dinnae progress withoot pooshin yer limits

Ps. Ah dinnae ivur go oan thon inturnet if uh'm feelin grumpy or down.
it's too fu ay whiny pricks thut ull jist drag ye doon furthur

 

[Hobo Mikey]

Just go straight down balls out.