Should I top up my battery before a ride?

[dOOg]

Hi new to the EMTB world. I have been using my new levo regularly so have been keeping the battery fully charged.

I wondering... Is it ok or is there any point to top up the charge before I go for a ride if say it hasn't been used for a day?

I understand it's best to let the battery settle after charging before riding.

Thanks

 

[MrBrownstone]

Whatever you do, do not overthink the whole battery charging thing. I ride my BMC pretty much every day for the last 6 months since I bought it. Some days I use 1-2 bars and some days like today I used 4 bars. I charge to full EVERY day that I use it even if I only used one bar and the next ride may only require 2 bars. No issues. There have been a few times when I didn’t ride it for a few days but I still had it at full charge from after my previous ride.

 

[steve_sordy]

Before I ride I fully charge the bike, but the after the ride I leave it until the next time. If it was almost fully discharged, I'd give it an hour to get it up to 50-60% and then leave it until next time. I believe that batteries will not be harmed for being left 100% charged, but only for a short while, maybe a day or two. If I was going to leave the bike for a week or more, I'd ensure the battery was in the 50-80% range.
I don't claim to fully understand the reasons, but I think it's something to do with the voltage potential across the terminals causing corrosion (maybe I made that up, not sure).
There are some real experts on here, so listen to them.

 

[MrBrownstone]

Stopped thinking (worrying) about it. I top mine up to 100% after almost every ride.
Tomorrows ride might be 15 miles, but it might be 45 miles.
Been getting out more and more on the unassisted bike lately, so the e-Whyte is sat for a few days at 100%, but at least I know it is there, topped off ready for action if I need it.
The thought of getting caught out by a half charged battery, out weighs any concerns I have of a few percent quicker battery deterioration. But if I do will just have to pedal harder.

Not going to let 1% or 2% quicker deterioration get in the way of a maxed out e-ride when it takes my fancy.

YES^^^^^and if the battery goes to shit in a year I’ll just buy another. If I can afford an ebike I can afford a battery haha. It’s not like I’m spending money on upgrades for a heavy bike that’ll still be heavy if I throw money at it. It’s gotta motor, an awesome motor, weight is a big nothing to me.?

 

[dOOg]

Cool that's great. Thanks for the replies. There is a lot of money involved in EMTB, just want to make sure I get the most out of it.

 

[LAWHITEY]

Umm good thread, I was wondering the same, I went out on my first ride on my new bike last and used one full bar and as I pulled up at home the second bar went off (so 2 full bars). My thought was 3 bars left what's the point in charging, I'll be going out again tomorrow and doing a similar distance so should get away with those 3 bars. Then I'll fully charge it after that ride, am I wrong? there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast info of the correct procedure apart from not sticking it straight on charge when you've finished riding.

 

[R120]

There are only three main things to remember with battery charging that you should follow IMO, though of course you can get as anal as you want about taking care of it and there is plenty of in-depth info on the forum about that. Also most brands have pretty comprehensive guidelines in the manuals.

First is that if you dont plan on using the bike for a while, best to leave the battery at about 60-70% charge as this is generally what most brands recommend if the battery is being stored for a while.

The second is that its better not to charge the battery straight after using it, wait an hour or so for it to cool down etc if needed - I tend to charge mine overnight using a timer plug set to the appropriate charge time, which leads me on to the next point.

Dont leave it charging for too long, once its fully charged, even though most chargers have some sort of automatic shut off when the battery is charged, it can still lead to problems with the charger/battery.

I dont know much about batteries on a technical level, but I have read most of the guidelines from the various manufacturers on them, and the above covers the basics.

 

[LAWHITEY]

There are only three main things to remember with battery charging that you should follow IMO, though of course you can get as anal as you want about taking care of it and there is plenty of in-depth info on the forum about that. Also most brands have pretty comprehensive guidelines in the manuals.

First is that if you dont plan on using the bike for a while, best to leave the battery at about 60-70% charge as this is generally what most brands recommend if the battery is being stored for a while.

The second is that its better not to charge the battery straight after using it, wait an hour or so for it to cool down etc if needed - I tend to charge mine overnight using a timer plug set to the appropriate charge time, which leads me on to the next point.

Dont leave it charging for too long, once its fully charged, even though most chargers have some sort of automatic shut off when the battery is charged, it can still lead to problems with the charger/battery.

I dont know much about batteries on a technical level, but I have read most of the guidelines from the various manufacturers on them, and the above covers the basics.

For some reason I knew all that, can't remember how, I must have read the manual
What do you think about my point though of trying to get two rides out of the battery rather than charge up to 100% again when I still have 3 bars left.

 

[R120]

I do that pretty often, my local quick loop is 12/13 miles and I can do it in an hour using about 25% battery, if I am going to do same the next day I dont bother charging the battery.

Just dont leave the battery fully drained for a prolonged period.

 

[LAWHITEY]

I do that pretty often, my local quick loop is 12/13 miles and I can do it in an hour using about 25% battery, if I am going to do same the next day I dont bother charging the battery.

Just dont leave the battery fully drained for a prolonged period.

Yes just what I wanted to hear, no I'll be sensible and fully charge after when I think is best, can't ever see me leaving it uncharged for too long, this 6 month of the year I'll get out 3 times a week, winter half at least once probably twice a week, so no prolonged time of leaving the battery without charge.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

I definitely wouldn't "top off" the battery. I ride pretty regularly and only charge mine if I don't think I have enough battery for the next ride.

 

[dOOg]

I definitely wouldn't "top off" the battery. I ride pretty regularly and only charge mine if I don't think I have enough battery for the next ride.

Hi, why wouldn't you top off the battery before a ride? Is it bad for the battery?

 

[wepn]

Hi, why wouldn't you top off the battery before a ride? Is it bad for the battery?

Definitely charge before a ride not after *. Leaving a battery fully charged for any extended period has an increasing, accumulative detrimental affect on calendar ageing.That affect is magnified with temperature increase. I'm a repetitive bastard I know but I'll say it again - it's not the end of the world if you kick your battery around just expect it to kick you back a bit.

* If it's well under 50% after your ride, charge to around 50% then complete the charge to either 80% or 100% before your next ride.

 

[salko]

I recently bought this wifi smart switch which I'm using for bike charging, I can start to charge the bike remotely via app no matter where I am, I can set on/off timer or schedule, also monitor charge power & consumption, it is inexpensive and very helpful little gadget for my needs of charging the bike ...
I always charge my bike to 70-75% for regular daily rides and even if there is a week or more without riding I won't worry that much, if I plan a longer ride I charge it to 100% up to about a day before ride.

AFAIK these are the main causes which will make battery lifetime shorter and should be avoided as much as you can:

• leaving the battery full or deeply discharged for longer periods of time
• leaving/storing the battery (full) on higher (above ~30°C) or lower temperatures (below ~5°C)
• charging the battery right after a ride when the battery is hot (some batteries may have safety system which will prevent from charging until they cool down)
• regular discharging below 20%
• multiple top-ups
• high ambient temperature while charging
• the faster (high amp) charging - if you have a option charge the battery with lower amps charger when you don't need the battery soon ...

There are many of you who will say "I charge it to 100% after every ride, even leave at 100% for week(s) and had 0 issues". Yes, short term you will have no issues, but long term you may get multiple times less cycle count out of it as you could expect from such battery with just a little bit of care. At the end it's always your choice what you will do.

 

[dOOg]

I recently bought this wifi smart switch which I'm using for bike charging, I can start to charge the bike remotely via app no matter where I am, I can set on/off timer or schedule, also monitor charge power & consumption, it is inexpensive and very helpful little gadget for my needs of charging the bike ...
I always charge my bike to 70-75% for regular daily rides and even if there is a week or more without riding I won't worry that much, if I plan a longer ride I charge it to 100% up to about a day before ride.

AFAIK these are the main causes which will make battery lifetime shorter and should be avoided as much as you can:

• leaving the battery full or deeply discharged for longer periods of time
• leaving/storing the battery (full) on higher (above ~30°C) or lower temperatures (below ~5°C)
• charging the battery right after a ride when the battery is hot (some batteries may have safety system which will prevent from charging until they cool down)
• regular discharging below 20%
• multiple top-ups
• high ambient temperature while charging
• the faster (high amp) charging - if you have a option charge the battery with lower amps charger when you don't need the battery soon ...

There are many of you who will say "I charge it to 100% after every ride, even leave at 100% for week(s) and had 0 issues". Yes, short term you will have no issues, but long term you may get multiple times less cycle count out of it as you could expect from such battery with just a little bit of care. At the end it's always your choice what you will do.

That's a good idea with the smart switch. I was looking at timer plugs last night and one of those came up. I like this approach ?

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Hi, why wouldn't you top off the battery before a ride? Is it bad for the battery?

It just comes down to what works best for me. I generally get two or three rides out of a charge, so don’t charge it unless I think I will need it for the next ride. Then I will charge to 100% and unplug the charger once the LEDs show that the battery is fully charged. Unless I forget, but the charger does supposedly turn itself off. I know the LED on the charger goes off.

 

[Kilham5]

Charge , Ride , Repeat ...

I might put that on a t-shirt

 

[LAWHITEY]

I recently bought this wifi smart switch which I'm using for bike charging, I can start to charge the bike remotely via app no matter where I am, I can set on/off timer or schedule, also monitor charge power & consumption, it is inexpensive and very helpful little gadget for my needs of charging the bike ...
I always charge my bike to 70-75% for regular daily rides and even if there is a week or more without riding I won't worry that much, if I plan a longer ride I charge it to 100% up to about a day before ride.

AFAIK these are the main causes which will make battery lifetime shorter and should be avoided as much as you can:

• leaving the battery full or deeply discharged for longer periods of time
• leaving/storing the battery (full) on higher (above ~30°C) or lower temperatures (below ~5°C)
• charging the battery right after a ride when the battery is hot (some batteries may have safety system which will prevent from charging until they cool down)
• regular discharging below 20%
• multiple top-ups
• high ambient temperature while charging
• the faster (high amp) charging - if you have a option charge the battery with lower amps charger when you don't need the battery soon ...

There are many of you who will say "I charge it to 100% after every ride, even leave at 100% for week(s) and had 0 issues". Yes, short term you will have no issues, but long term you may get multiple times less cycle count out of it as you could expect from such battery with just a little bit of care. At the end it's always your choice what you will do.

First off not having a go and making out to be any kind of expert but a couple of things from your post. I don't understand the point of when you say you charge only charge up to 75% if these batteries are like any other modern day battery don't they get a memory and get used to being charged to only that point of which you always charge, giving the optimum use of the battery a shorter life span and not getting the full 100% use of the life of the battery. Another point of don't regularly discharge to below 20%, why? Ok don't constantly let your battery get to 0% when out riding every time, but the manufacturers give you that other 20% for a reason. So are you saying if you are out on a ride and see you have 25% left you are going to head home with that 5% battery to not get into the remaining 20%? seems daft in my opinion. The batteries have been built to get the full use out of them, Ok we all need to be careful of how we look after them ie like you say don't charge straight after a ride and don't leave discharged for long periods, but use them how they were meant to be used and developed by Shimano/Bosch etc, for longer rides in the saddle.

 

[wepn]

First off not having a go and making out to be any kind of expert but a couple of things from your post. I don't understand the point of when you say you charge only charge up to 75% if these batteries are like any other modern day battery don't they get a memory and get used to being charged to only that point of which you always charge, giving the optimum use of the battery a shorter life span and not getting the full 100% use of the life of the battery. Another point of don't regularly discharge to below 20%, why? Ok don't constantly let your battery get to 0% when out riding every time, but the manufacturers give you that other 20% for a reason. So are you saying if you are out on a ride and see you have 25% left you are going to head home with that 5% battery to not get into the remaining 20%? seems daft in my opinion. The batteries have been built to get the full use out of them, Ok we all need to be careful of how we look after them ie like you say don't charge straight after a ride and don't leave discharged for long periods, but use them how they were meant to be used and developed by Shimano/Bosch etc, for longer rides in the saddle.

salco knows what he’s talking about. Of course it’s up to you if you find it easier or more convenient, go ahead and charge to 100% after your ride. It’s actually easier and more convenient for me to charge to 50% after my ride then to whatever I need before my ride. I’ve done a few thousand kilometres and my displayed battery health is the same as it was on day 1 - not that it’s significant.

 

[salko]

First off not having a go and making out to be any kind of expert but a couple of things from your post. I don't understand the point of when you say you charge only charge up to 75% if these batteries are like any other modern day battery don't they get a memory and get used to being charged to only that point of which you always charge, giving the optimum use of the battery a shorter life span and not getting the full 100% use of the life of the battery.

I'm no battery expert also, but the memory affect is tendency of nickel-cadmium and nickel-metal-hydride batteries. Lithium-ion batteries, such is also Specialized 700Wh battery and many if not all other ebike batteries, have no memory effect. Although it is recommended to charge the battery fully every once in a while to allow BMS to balance the cells which is usually executed when the battery is (almost) full.

Another point of don't regularly discharge to below 20%, why? Ok don't constantly let your battery get to 0% when out riding every time, but the manufacturers give you that other 20% for a reason. So are you saying if you are out on a ride and see you have 25% left you are going to head home with that 5% battery to not get into the remaining 20%?

Of course not. Will go below 20% if needed, but not on regular basis. If I see I have 60% left and will need max. 50% for my next ride I will rather top it up than leave it and go for a ride and end up with 5-10% remaining ... These bateries are "most comfortable" (and have highest lifespan) being between 20-80% of charge.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Here's a surplus of information for you:

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

 

[LAWHITEY]

Here's a surplus of information for you:

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

Interesting read, although more for the use of laptops and mobile phones.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Interesting read, although more for the use of laptops and mobile phones.

I was wondering whether that would get said.

Please note that a lot of the information on that site is specific to "EV", where EV = Electric Vehicles (and also satellites). The battery chemistry is the same, no matter whether it's your mobile phone or your Tesla.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Let's not bring my (non-existent) Tesla into this!

 

[LAWHITEY]

I was wondering whether that would get said.

Please note that a lot of the information on that site is specific to "EV", where EV = Electric Vehicles (and also satellites). The battery chemistry is the same, no matter whether it's your mobile phone or your Tesla.

How did you know i had a Tesla???

 

[kevinlongisland]

DOOg, I think the answer to your question is based on your desired goal. I’ll split the desired goal into two camps, that are both evident in the replies here in your post.

A) Those who want to maximize fun, not worry, and for some, spending $1200 on a new battery is no big deal.

B) Those of us who want to maximize the lifespan of an expensive part, are techies, or simply enjoy maintenance and taking care of our tech.

If you’re A, then don’t worry. Charge it and ride.

If you’re B, it’s well worth your time reading the article GrahamPaul posted from Battery University.

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

Here are some key pieces of information from that article that all lithium battery owners should be aware of;

“Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell (full charge) typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell (80% charge), the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell (70% charge) should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell (60% charge) should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles."*

and:

"Estimated recoverable capacity when storing Li-ion for one year at various temperatures and capacities.
Temperature----stored at 40% charge----stored at 100% charge
0°C ----98% (after 1 year) ----94% (after 1 year)
25°C ----96% (after 1 year) ----80% (after 1 year)
40°C ----85% (after 1 year) ----65% (after 1 year)"
Note at 25°C (77°F), the battery loses 16% capacity after a year if you keep it fully charged all the time, compared to keeping it in a "storage" mode. This is hugely important to me as I'd like to keep the full capacity of my battery and therefor the full range of my bike, as long as possible.

I’ve been working directly with lithium based batteries for at least a decade now and I’ve seen in person how badly the performance and capacity of lithium batteries drops off when they are frequently charged to 4.20 volts/100% capacity, run down to 0% capacity, and stored at high capacities (90 to 100% charge). In some applications this is necessary. For most of us here, we can avoid this type of use and extend the life of our batteries. If you’re A type rider, charge, ride, don’t worry. If you’re B type rider, it’s probably worth your time reading the article, investing in a wall timer, and developing the habits to maintain your battery for longevity.

Hope this helps!

*% charge added by me via info found here: Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

 

[dOOg]

DOOg, I think the answer to your question is based on your desired goal. I’ll split the desired goal into two camps, that are both evident in the replies here in your post.

A) Those who want to maximize fun, not worry, and for some, spending $1200 on a new battery is no big deal.

B) Those of us who want to maximize the lifespan of an expensive part, are techies, or simply enjoy maintenance and taking care of our tech.

If you’re A, then don’t worry. Charge it and ride.

If you’re B, it’s well worth your time reading the article GrahamPaul posted from Battery University.

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

I believe this is the key piece of information from that article that all lithium battery owners should be aware of;

“Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell (full charge) typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell (80% charge), the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell (70% charge) should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell (60% charge) should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.”*

I’ve been working directly with lithium based batteries for at least a decade now and I’ve seen in person how badly the performance and capacity of lithium batteries drops off when they are not taken care of. If you’re A type rider, charge, ride, don’t worry. If you’re B type rider, it’s probably worth your time reading the article, investing in a wall timer, and developing the habits to maintain your battery for longevity.

Hope this helps!

*% charge added by me via info found here: Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

I'm definitely a B type of person. I do like to look after my gear.

That is a big difference in cycles between fully charged an 80%.

I have had a look at that article but I'll dig in further.

So...
- Always fully charging isn't best practice for longevity of the battery even with daily use.
- Only fully charge if you need to for a big ride.
- Never leave your battery low for any length of time.
- If the battery is going to be out of use for a while, store with around 60% charge.

My smart power monitor plug arrived today ?

Thanks for all the info an thoughts.

It seems that batteries don't like being under stress and need time to settle after changing and riding.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

I recently bought this wifi smart switch which I'm using for bike charging, I can start to charge the bike remotely via app no matter where I am, I can set on/off timer or schedule, also monitor charge power & consumption, it is inexpensive and very helpful little gadget for my needs of charging the bike ...

Can you set it turn off after a certain number of watts pass through it? Kind of like a smart Kill-A-Watt?

 

[salko]

No. But you can simply calculate the time when you need it to switch off to have desired % of charge.

 

[Sapientiea]

I always store the battery at around 40-60% charge for the very reasons you are describing. If I need to ride the next day I use a timer to charge while i am sleeping (if in save location!) or I just wake up and plug it in that morning.