Shocked...amazed... disillusioned

[taxidriver50005]

Well I'm new to these forums and embt in general,
I have been looking into getting 2 bikes for me and the wife nothink to serious me 54 wife 52 but wanted something that would allow in to learn and no be to restrictive in the future, I generally keep things a long time and try to buy something that will last.
I settled on a full suspension mid drive bike as the best option.
I am SHOCKED at how unreliable these seem to be judging by the forums on motors on here.
I'm AMAZED at how well you all seam to take it that buying a ebike that may break down the day you buy it is normal.
I'm DISILLUSIONED at the thought that this was going to be a good idea.
I can't believe that bearing failure is happening on nearly new motors due to water ingress,surly this is a simple engineering fix.
Battery failure simply shouldn't happen, my prius battery is warranted for 15 years unlimited mileage and if it were to fail costs a little more than the cost of a Bosch power tube.
I would love to see a pole on all the motors reliability, failures, expected mileage, what happens when these are out of warranty will they be worthless, at the moment there is a high demand and most people will not have looked into running costs for the future, once the word is out on these and warrenty has expired resale prices will tumble.
I can't believe the manufacturers can not make these reliable, we are all quick to slag off Chinese build quality but are bafang any worse than Bosch Shimano ECT. At least they are cheap to start off with...you could almost buy a complete bafang engined bike cheaper than a replacement battery for the big brands.

 

[RazorBlade]

Well I'm new to these forums and embt in general,
I have been looking into getting 2 bikes for me and the wife nothink to serious me 54 wife 52 but wanted something that would allow in to learn and no be to restrictive in the future, I generally keep things a long time and try to buy something that will last.
I settled on a full suspension mid drive bike as the best option.
I am SHOCKED at how unreliable these seem to be judging by the forums on motors on here.
I'm AMAZED at how well you all seam to take it that buying a ebike that may break down the day you buy it is normal.
I'm DISILLUSIONED at the thought that this was going to be a good idea.
I can't believe that bearing failure is happening on nearly new motors due to water ingress,surly this is a simple engineering fix.
Battery failure simply shouldn't happen, my prius battery is warranted for 15 years unlimited mileage and if it were to fail costs a little more than the cost of a Bosch power tube.
I would love to see a pole on all the motors reliability, failures, expected mileage, what happens when these are out of warranty will they be worthless, at the moment there is a high demand and most people will not have looked into running costs for the future, once the word is out on these and warrenty has expired resale prices will tumble.
I can't believe the manufacturers can not make these reliable, we are all quick to slag off Chinese build quality but are bafang any worse than Bosch Shimano ECT. At least they are cheap to start off with...you could almost buy a complete bafang engined bike cheaper than a replacement battery for the big brands.

I think you are missing a major point, plenty of folks have these bikes and have no issues.

We don't start posts saying my bikes fine today and worked as normal. We don't need help with that, so you only get discussion when products go wrong.

 

[taxidriver50005]

I think you are missing a major point, plenty of folks have these bikes and have no issues.

We don't start posts saying my bikes fine today and worked as normal. We don't need help with that, so you only get discussion when products go wrong.

That's why I would love to see pole on reliability or unreliability on all motor types,these are expensive toys and plenty of people would like to know what there getting into before taking the plunge, another thing of a pole is it points out strengths and weaknesses in certain motors and manufacturers can take note they are falling behind and need improvement.

 

[Cbmojo]

That's why I would love to see pole on reliability or unreliability on all motor types,these are expensive toys and plenty of people would like to know what there getting into before taking the plunge, another thing of a pole is it points out strengths and weaknesses in certain motors and manufacturers can take note they are falling behind and need improvement.

Shimano is rock solid...I have 2 bikes with e8000 and never a problem...I ride hard and they are they are both de-restricted

so there you go!!

 

[luna87824]

Shimano is rock solid...I have 2 bikes with e8000 and never a problem...I ride hard and they are they are both de-restricted

so there you go!!

How do you put up with the annoying whining noise the motor makes?

 

[taxidriver50005]

Shimano is rock solid...I have 2 bikes with e8000 and never a problem...I ride hard and they are they are both de-restricted

so there you go!!

Cheers

Shimano is rock solid...I have 2 bikes with e8000 and never a problem...I ride hard and they are they are both de-restricted

so there you go!!

Cheers Cbmojo, it's nice to see there is at least 2 bikes out there that haven't had 3 or 4 replacement engines.
The problem with reading these forums is you get a very one sided opinion on reliability on these, as RazerBlade said nobody Wright to say there bike switched on OK today but as a newbie all we see is my bike never switched on again today and this can be very off putting for people coming into embt.

 

[DrStupid]

How do you put up with the annoying whining noise the motor makes?

When it stops making noise, its broke. The noise is good..That's how I deal with it.

 

[DrStupid]

I've had 3 bikes for over a year, and no motor troubles. I treat one of them very badly.

 

[MitchF]

Not sure if E-bikes are right for you fella.
Shocked and disillusioned already and you haven’t bought one yet.

Forums generally have more horror stories than praise , its the nature of the internet.

Maybe you should take more time to research , good luck ??

 

[Cbmojo]

Cheers

Cheers Cbmojo, it's nice to see there is at least 2 bikes out there that haven't had 3 or 4 replacement engines.
The problem with reading these forums is you get a very one sided opinion on reliability on these, as RazerBlade said nobody Wright to say there bike switched on OK today but as a newbie all we see is my bike never switched on again today and this can be very off putting for people coming into embt.

The thing is you happen to be in a year where 2 primary manufactures have updated motors. Bosch Gen 4 and Brose S-mag...both are in the first year of production so there is bound to be issues. They are both solid companies and will get the bugs out but that takes a little time. People say the e8000 is starting to be dated...I say its tested and proven and on an ebike reliability is extremely important to up the fun factor. I have had too many bikes that I am messing with the components and sitting in the shop. Motor choice is so subjective and as long as I can adjust mine to my riding style I will take reliability over torque...just my 2 cents

 

[urastus]

I agree with you. They are fun but I bought before I knew this side of them. It isn't just the motors - speed sensor and battery too. I've had my fair share of speed sensor issues very early. Most people seem prepared to defend them, which I find strange. Why would a manufacturer change if everyone is happy and no one is complaining? I'm enjoying mine and now that I have it I'll ride it as much as I can before the two years are up. Out of curiosity has anyone got over 5000km (not road duty)? Also, shimano have their fair share of breakdowns too - usually the main bearings. Everyone I know with emtb has had issues. It would be good to have a poll on who doesn't have issues; eg anyone out there with original motor over 5,000km used as an mtb? I've only heard of this with commuters.

 

[Cbmojo]

Sure...so does my car! ...thats part of ownership. The more tech and moving parts the more potential issues thats basic engineering.
Nothing that you bang up and down mountains in dirt and rain 20 times a month is going to be without issues. One should have realistic expectations.

 

[Gary]

I have been looking into getting 2 bikes for me and the wife nothink to serious me 54 wife 52 but wanted something that would allow in to learn and no be to restrictive in the future, I generally keep things a long time and try to buy something that will last.

I am SHOCKED at how unreliable these seem to be judging by the forums on motors on here.
I'm AMAZED at how well you all seam to take it that buying a ebike that may break down the day you buy it is normal.
I'm DISILLUSIONED at the thought that this was going to be a good idea.

Get a couple of normal bikes. 54 isn't too old to learn without a motor. And to be perfectly honest you'll learn good basic skills quicker on a lighter normal bikes than 50lb Ebikes.

 

[taxidriver50005]

Get a couple of normal bikes. 54 isn't too old to learn without a motor. And to be perfectly honest you'll learn good basic skills quicker on a lighter normal bikes than 50lb Ebikes.

Already got a couple of normal bikes, also scorpa sy250 trials iron.... Throw that at rocks mud ect jet wash when done quick squirt of oil is all the maintenance it requires. I'm just trying to get a feel of how fragile Ebikes are, which brand motor stands out as a long term investment for reliability. Parts on the bike are interchangeable motors are not.

 

[MadsB]

Already got a couple of normal bikes, also scorpa sy250 trials iron.... Throw that at rocks mud ect jet wash when done quick squirt of oil is all the maintenance it requires. I'm just trying to get a feel of how fragile Ebikes are, which brand motor stands out as a long term investment for reliability. Parts on the bike are interchangeable motors are not.

If a motor breaks down in the warranty period, it’s should be replaced under warranty, that should provide some piece of mind no?

 

[Zimmerframe]

No idea if this helps or hinders you. My boring figures which should be taken with a lorry load of salt, logged over 12 months to give a decent window for accuracy.

2021 will be a Super EMTB year

Reading lots of posts about inferior or lack of seals on motors (and having experienced this myself) - realized how ridiculous this is since it is an easy design solution. Just look at fork, shock and dropper post stanchion seals - OK yeah there is a difference since the the motor shaft is...

www.emtbforums.com

I've stopped logging now as it served it's purpose for me - it's time consuming, very boring and very hypothetical.

Also to note, just before I stopped, Bosch Gen 4 had overtaken Brose. Not because of hardware failures, but software issues/error codes, which they're working on.

Also to note. With the Brose I logged all failures, no matter what. With the rest I didn't log if the motor has been de-restricted or knowingly tampered with.

 

[Gary]

Already got a couple of normal bikes, also scorpa sy250 trials iron.... Throw that at rocks mud ect jet wash when done quick squirt of oil is all the maintenance it requires. I'm just trying to get a feel of how fragile Ebikes are, which brand motor stands out as a long term investment for reliability. Parts on the bike are interchangeable motors are not.

Firstly, That's not all the maintenance a Scorpa needs. unless you don't actually ride it too much. and let's be honest here very few trials bike owners do anywhere near the mileage a keen cyclist does
Shimano STEPs motors are all interchangeable
But as said already above they're all warrantied for 2 years anyway

 

[taxidriver50005]

Firstly, That's not all the maintenance a Scorpa needs. unless you don't actually ride it too much. and let's be honest here very few trials bike owners do anywhere near the mileage a keen cyclist does
Shimano STEPs motors are all interchangeable
But as said already above they're all warrantied for 2 years anyway

My point is trials bike can be made reliable riding in harsh conditions ebike costing similar money I would hope would be the same

 

[taxidriver50005]

My point is trials bike can be made reliable riding in harsh conditions ebike costing similar money I would hope would be the same

Oh and in warranty isn't really the problem, I keep em a long time so out of warranty is the probl6

 

[Gary]

So simply ride them enough that you break one shitty unreliable motor each 18months or so to be replaced with a new motor and new warranty.

what's the engine warranty on your Scorpa?

I honestly wish folk would stop comparing their 150-250lb motorcycles to 50lb Eebs on here.

 

[taxidriver50005]

No idea if this helps or hinders you. My boring figures which should be taken with a lorry load of salt.

2021 will be a Super EMTB year

Reading lots of posts about inferior or lack of seals on motors (and having experienced this myself) - realized how ridiculous this is since it is an easy design solution. Just look at fork, shock and dropper post stanchion seals - OK yeah there is a difference since the the motor shaft is...

www.emtbforums.com

I've stopped logging now as it served it's purpose for me - it's time consuming, very boring and very hypothetical.

Also to note, just before I stopped, Bosch Gen 4 had overtaken Brose. Not because of hardware failures, but software issues/error codes, which they're working on.

Also to note. With the Brose I logged all failures, no matter what. With the rest I didn't log if the motor has been de-restricted or knowingly tampered with.

Just read through your post, perhaps some sort of logging or pole on here would help out newbie riders dipping there toes in for the first time, it's all very well Looking for information on these forums or even asking questions but if you ask somebody about a certain brands reliability you will always get a reply from somebody who is blinding loyal to that brand and swears he's never heard of any problems ever. Figures don't usually lie if there done properly

 

[Sam E180]

How do you put up with the annoying whining noise the motor makes?

The same way I put up with the whining of people who don’t “get” e-bikes ? my Bosch really isn’t intrusive, I forget it’s there almost straight away.

Get a demo ride, I tried 3 or 4 before settling on mine ?

 

[Gary]

Just read through your post, perhaps some sort of logging or pole on here would help out newbie riders dipping there toes in for the first time

how exactly would that help you out?

 

[taxidriver50005]

So simply ride them enough that you break one shitty unreliable motor each 18months or so to be replaced with a new motor and new warranty.

what's the engine warranty on your Scorpa?

I honestly wish folk would stop comparing their 150-250lb motorcycles to 50lb Eebs on here.

Warranty on scorpa as in all off rd bikes is a big fat zero,classed as competition bike . Now 19yrs old and had 1 set of main bearings 10 yrs ago.
I don't intend doing downhill comps or anything severe but embt are marketed to the public for general use and I would hope fit for purpose.
If I was doing comps and pushing the bike engine fail would be down to user abuse and would be expected.
Why do they suffer water ingress...there can only be 2 entry points 1 on each side of the crank I can't believe they can't seal them up properly

 

[taxidriver50005]

how exactly would that help you out?

If I was looking at a brose engined bike and it turned out engine failure was 5x that of yamaha I wouldn't be buying brose and then slagging emtbs off.

 

[steve_sordy]

Over 1600 miles here vast majority off road, been through two UK winters. Zero problems with my Shimano E8000 motor.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just read through your post, perhaps some sort of logging or pole on here would help out newbie riders dipping there toes in for the first time, it's all very well Looking for information on these forums or even asking questions but if you ask somebody about a certain brands reliability you will always get a reply from somebody who is blinding loyal to that brand and swears he's never heard of any problems ever. Figures don't usually lie if there done properly

If you take the time to read the threads as you say you have - to become "SHOCKED...AMAZED... DISILLUSIONED" .. then you'd also notice there are countless treads of polls trying to work out this information.

You'll also have no doubt also read, multiple times, how it doesn't actually work out with any accuracy whatsoever as a huge number of people who search out a forum are people who've broken something and want to know "how to fix it", "who else has the problem" or "just to complain in disgust that something broke". So the results will always be hugely skewed and massively inaccurate.

"and here we are live with Brian from the AA, so Brian, you see a lot of cars, what % were broken today ? 100% !! Blimey !! So basically cars are sh1t"

I tried it. It failed. So I did one privately and used external information to form a baseline and kept track of all users, their bikes, sexual preferences, pets, hair colour and which motors broke and didn't rather than just people who said theirs had broken.

I know it's quite normal to read all the failures and be surprised, but as others have said, people don't write every day "hey, my bike didn't break".

Hence, I'm not quite sure what you're after ? The information is there for you to read to give a realistic view of how things work or don't work. The bikes have warranties. Motors can be purchased outside of warranty if they break. Different people will ride differently and break things more than other people. The same with trials bikes. Blown motors in 2 weeks, snapped frames - it's all normal and happens.

You've read, jumped to a conclusion, posted a thread - searching for clarification or an alternative ? had alternatives ? argued against them ?

If you're worried that much that it "SHOCKs...AMAZE's... DISILLUSIONE's" you , just don't buy one. Simple. You wouldn't buy another product that you felt that way about and you wouldn't head off on a rant on an internet forum on "what laptop" to winge about it.

You've concluded a bafang is the way to go - buy a bafang ! no one will judge you, they're good too.

Just buy something which makes you happy that you're not worried about.

Or buy a couple of Decathlon E-st100's. They're cheap, simple, should last you forever and the parts costs peanuts - all factors which reduce worry.

 

[Gary]

If I was looking at a brose engined bike and it turned out engine failure was 5x that of yamaha I wouldn't be buying brose and then slagging emtbs off.

Which doesn't help in the slightest
There are hardly any good Yamaha motor bikes compared to Brose
infact I can only think of ONE capable enduro Emtb that even uses the Yamaha
Brose is probably the most common motor on here.
and you also know absolutely nothing about the riders or how the bikes have been used/treated

Take Steve above as an example
his 1600 trouble free off road miles are NOTHING like mine.
No shimano motor has ever lasted me that many off road miles without the main bearings going

You're completely wasting your time trying to analyse this and making a huge drama out of it.
just buy the bikes you actually want

 

[Gary]

"and here we are live with Brian from the AA, so Brian, you see a lot of cars, what % were broken today ? 100% !! Blimey !! So basically cars are sh1t"

Brian is a fucking legend!

 

[steve_sordy]

...........you also know absolutely nothing about the riders or how the bikes have been used/treated

Take Steve above as an example
his 1600 trouble free off road miles are NOTHING like mine.
No shimano motor has ever lasted me that many off road miles without the main bearings going
........

And thank God for that!
With my skill level, I'd be dead or in traction!