Shimano e7000 steps?

[Bongofish]

Sorry this may have been mentioned before. But I'm a little confused by it....is this a downgrade to the e8000 steps? The new Vitus e sentier and e sommet both have the e7000 steps...but then when you go to the VR models it's the e8000 steps?

But I've just got a e sentier 2018 with the e8000 thas nearly £1000 less than the basic 2019 with the e7000?

Could anyone clear this up for me as to why the more expensive bikes have the cheaper motor, and in cheaper bikes from 2018 (alot cheaper!) Theyhave the e8000 system?

 

[Kangr]

Yes it is a downgrade.

 

[Gary]

@Bongofish - you basically got a massive bargain mate. By not swithering over what next years models might be like a lot of other foolish people.

 

[Bongofish]

That's a crazy downgrade....£800 more for a bike with a worse motor . And the e sommet is over 3k with the e7000 system. Just seems like the e bike production is going a bit backwards....more money for less motor...or maybe it's just me being negative. So many bikes cheaper out there still with the e8000 on the 2018 models ...

I was sure j would be upgrading to the e sommet next year...it seems not ?

 

[Kangr]

The e7000 was designed to be a cheaper alternative to the e8000 to enable more cost conscious bikes.
Shimano does tend to work this way, first they bring out there top level product the XTR level. then they trickle down the technology to more affordable levels like XT.

 

[Bongofish]

B

The e7000 was designed to be a cheaper alternative to the e8000 to enable more cost conscious bikes.
Shimano does tend to work this way, first they bring out there top level product the XTR level. then they trickle down the technology to more affordable levels like XT.

But how is this more affordable when they were selling bikes for the same price last year with the better motors? And there is lots of bikes cheaper than the new Vitus range with the better e8000 system. It just makes me wonder if these motors are cheaper but the price points haven't changed or increased....is this just another way to increase profits and the consumer gets less? ABIT disappointed on Vitus for the new e bikes. The non e bikes look great ?

 

[jonathan horticulturist]

@Bongofish - you basically got a massive bargain mate. By not swithering over what next years models might be like a lot of other foolish people.

Yes, I look sad and say D’oh...

 

[Gary]

What?

FFS mate.

You got a massive discount on your 2018 (not far off 30% incl BC discount). and it was pretty much bargain Emtb of the year.
All similarly spec'd competitors bikes last year were a LOT more expensive.


The 2018 E-Sentier VR was 2.9k retail, 2018 E-Sommet VR was 3.8k retail

 

[Bongofish]

What?

FFS mate.

You got a massive discount on your 2018 (not far off 30% incl BC discount). and it was pretty much bargain Emtb of the year.
All similarly spec'd competitors bikes last year were a LOT more expensive.


The 2018 E-Sentier VR was 2.9k retail, 2018 E-Sommet VR was 3.8k retail

Well maybe I just hit buying an e bike at the time when all the bargains where out...as paying £4k now for a e8000 system from Vitus on the e sommet opens up alot of other manufacturers as an option.

 

[Bongofish]

@Gary on the Vitus webpage it says the e sentier was originally £2499?...and the new Vitus is £2399 I believe but with a cheaper motor....

 

[Gary]

is this just another way to increase profits and the consumer gets less? ABIT disappointed on Vitus for the new e bikes.

What are you talking about mate
The 2019 E Sommet VR is listed on CRC as £3799. ONE hundred pounds more. with very similar spec. (pretty much everything has increased in price in the last couple of years here funnily enough)

Being CRC it will undoubtably be discounted at some point in it's life but the 10% BC discount no longer applies.

The E7000 isn't actually a huge downgrade. it's lighter and outputs 10nm less peak torque in boost but has the same battery (so in theory range could be better). and will suit plenty folk better than the E8000
Read a review of it before getting all indignant about your percieved "downgrade"

 

[Bongofish]

What are you talking about mate
The 2019 E Sommet VR is listed on CRC as £3799. ONE hundred pounds more. with very similar spec. (pretty much everything has increased in price in the last couple of years here funnily enough)

Being CRC it will undoubtably be discounted at some point in it's life but the 10% BC discount no longer applies.

The E7000 isn't actually a huge downgrade. it's lighter and outputs 10nm less peak torque in boost but has the same battery (so in theory range could be better). and will suit plenty folk better than the E8000
Read a review of it before getting all indignant about your percieved "downgrade"

I'm on about the e sentier I have. The new one is £100 cheaper than last year's model but has (by what alot of people say) a downgraded motor. I never pretend to know more than anyone here as a new enthusiastic rider. But so far even on this thread, people have said it's a downgrade. And my reasonable question was why would a bike like the e sentier which is roughly the same price as last year's model now have a downgraded motor. Simples. But honestly mate fair enough ....it was genuinely just a question and you have gave me your answer to that. I'll watch some YouTube videos and see what the actual comparisons are like between the two systems.

 

[knut7]

For trail riding I don't think the E7000 is much of a sacrifice. For riding up steep fire roads at max speed, or riding up a hill with kids in a wagon, the extra power of the E8000 is very nice to have though. I think it's interesting to see more proper emtbs with the E7000. Usually going E8000 to E7000 should mean more than £100 price reduction, but I guess Vitus was running really low prices for 2018 and was gonna increase them for 2019 anyway.

Edit: Oh, and it seems the brakes have been upgraded too. The MT520 is quite powerful.

 

[Gary]

There's plenty info on here about the E7000 [EDIT - speak of the devil ]

I'm guessing you're quite new to mtb in general? Most bike manufacturers will increase prices slightly year on year or make savings in spec level to retain the same pricing. Frames re-design is usually every few years and pricing often changes completely with the new model.
The difference in retail price between the 2018 and 2019 Lyrik (spec'd on the E-Sommet VR) is almost £100 alone. Shimano groupsets have all seen prce increases over the last couple of years, same with most components etc.

 

[Northumbrian]

Like Gary rightly states, the 7000 is more compact, lighter? And only 10Nm down on the 8000, so I wouldn’t call it a “downgrade” ...just not the” full fat” version, would suit explorer type riders IMO

Bongofish, like you I picked up a vr e Sentier for under £1800.... you can’t really judge it against next years prices....

The 2019 e Sommet VR is a bargain even at £3799 IMO .....and as I type I’m trying to work out how to find the £s to get one!

 

[Gary]

ike you I picked up a vr e Sentier for under £1800

To put that into perspective:
Replacement:
E8000 motor = £940
E8000 Battery = £600
E8000 display = £150
E8000 shifter = £100

You effectively got a very nicely spec'd hardtail for under a tenner

Oh... and the charger alone is £150 too

 

[Northumbrian]

To put that into perspective:
Replacement:
E8000 motor = £940
E8000 Battery = £600
E8000 display = £150
E8000 shifter = £100

You effectively got a very nicely spec'd hardtail for under a tenner

Oh... and the charger alone is £150 too

Cheers....need to show your calculations to my missus.... could bode well for negotiations with her regarding the Sommet !

 

[Bongofish]

To put that into perspective:
Replacement:
E8000 motor = £940
E8000 Battery = £600
E8000 display = £150
E8000 shifter = £100

You effectively got a very nicely spec'd hardtail for under a tenner

Oh... and the charger alone is £150 too

This is more the answser I was hoping to get so I understood. You always come through in the end @Gary haha. Yeh im new. Had road motorbikes and got a Carrera bike back in April and then a massive bug started that's just grown and grown. Gone from family rides to local park to rides out with some incredible riders in here and loving every second. I truly think I've found a genuine passion in MTB and eMTB and anything to help me understand and progress my knowledge and riding is always welcome ?

 

[Gary]

No worries mate.

also... there's quite a big queue of E8000 owners patiently waiting to 'downgrade' their E8000 shifter to get their grubby little paws on this E7000 model (me inluded)

E7000 is NEW... in some ways it's a compromise. in others it's an improvement.

 

[highpeakrider]

I do like that switch.

 

[Northumbrian]

No worries mate.

also... there's quite a big queue of E8000 owners patiently waiting to 'downgrade' their E8000 shifter to get their grubby little paws on this E7000 model (me inluded)

E7000 is NEW... in some ways it's a compromise. in others it's an improvement.

I downgraded further and went with the e6000 switch gear!

 

[Gary]

I'm on my second E8000... They're not too crash resilient

 

[R120]

I wouldn't call the e7000 a downgrade, in Shimanos own words its a motor designed for normal trail riding whereas the e8000 is for burlier riding, though obviously this is their marketing speak. They compare the e8000 to XT and the e7000 to SLX.

With Vitus there are two main things to consider - firstly the bikes are still bargains, secondly Brexit has fecked pretty much any industry bringing in bikes/parts/materials etc from abroad, so everything is going up in price. The bikes will be costing them more to make this year, and this is why in general we are seeing steer price increases than usual across the board on bikes and parts.

If i was looking at this years model, and thinking of using it as a base for a build, i would have no problems buying the e7000 model.

The Sentier is an odd one, in that i think last years VR Model will probably be the only time we see this bike from Vitus, it was an anomaly in the market to see such a relatively highly specced hardtail E-MTB, simply because most hardtail EMTBS are pitched at the leisure/entry level end of he market, with very few similarly specced hardtails out there. There is a reason the VR is the only 2018 bike left available to buy, as theres not much of a market for it. Shame as i love mine.

They have clearly repositioned the Sentier purely as an entry level e-mtb this year.

Personally i was disappointed to see Vitus not bring out an EMTB version of their 29'r Escarpe - if they bought out one with the E7000 motor i would be straight in!

I think we will be seeing some high end bikes with the e7000, as its more compact and lighter, and i am sure some clever things can be done with it

 

[Stevfro99]

This is more the answser I was hoping to get so I understood. You always come through in the end @Gary haha. Yeh im new. Had road motorbikes and got a Carrera bike back in April and then a massive bug started that's just grown and grown. Gone from family rides to local park to rides out with some incredible riders in here and loving every second. I truly think I've found a genuine passion in MTB and eMTB and anything to help me understand and progress my knowledge and riding is always welcome ?

Mate I'm super new to all this too. What should that matter tho.....everyone has to start somewhere. I'm just looking forward to meeting new people and getting out and seeing the country. After all surely that's what it's about.

 

[Tamas]

Just a few thoughts on the E7000. It is not lighter than the E8000 according to the specs, it's even a few grams heavier @2,88kg vs 2,8kg. Shimano describes it as "Lighter than DU-E6002".
The complete system can be lighter because with the E7000 Shimano also announced the 400Wh battery which weight ~0,5kg less than the 504Wh. Some of the E7000 bikes will come with the smaller battery and there might be some small price decrease for those compared to the 2018 E8000 bikes. Other than that, the manufacturers will 'eat up' the price difference between the motors.
I think the motor with the lower torque (power is rated the same 250W) can be sufficient for 80-90% of the riders - with proper gearing. Other than being cheaper (in theory) I see no benefits to it over the E8000... well, maybe the assist switch, but I'm fine with the SW-E6000.

 

[Tamas]

I think we will be seeing some high end bikes with the e7000, as its more compact and lighter, and i am sure some clever things can be done with it

It's a few grams heavier than the E8000, only the system weight with the 400Wh battery is lighter.

 

[jonathan horticulturist]

Biggest mistake I made this year was missing the Vitus E Sentier VR at £1800 by ONE DAY (was waiting for my brother’s exam results to see if he could afford it on credit with his EMA... next day, results came in, offer went away).

I imagine they won’t release any hardtail in the future with similar spec... in fact, I am betting they won’t release a hardtail with an E8000 motor.

 

[knut7]

Just a few thoughts on the E7000. It is not lighter than the E8000 according to the specs, it's even a few grams heavier @2,88kg vs 2,8kg. Shimano describes it as "Lighter than DU-E6002".
The complete system can be lighter because with the E7000 Shimano also announced the 400Wh battery which weight ~0,5kg less than the 504Wh. Some of the E7000 bikes will come with the smaller battery and there might be some small price decrease for those compared to the 2018 E8000 bikes. Other than that, the manufacturers will 'eat up' the price difference between the motors.
I think the motor with the lower torque (power is rated the same 250W) can be sufficient for 80-90% of the riders - with proper gearing. Other than being cheaper (in theory) I see no benefits to it over the E8000... well, maybe the assist switch, but I'm fine with the SW-E6000.

I believe the weight is the same, I've seen 2,8kg and 2,88kg for both.

On the Shimano Steps web site both are listed as 2,8kg. I guess the internals are pretty much the same.
E7000 e-Bike System – SHIMANO STEPS
E8000 e-Bike System – SHIMANO STEPS

I was hoping the E7000 would be smaller/lighter, but I guess being cheaper will do.

E7000 seems to be slightly more quiet, specs says "Noise level: -2 dB (vs E8000) ". And I like the balance between power and control for Boost-mode. The E8000 needs better resolution on the assistance tuning to acheive the same I think.

 

[Tamas]

I believe the weight is the same, I've seen 2,8kg and 2,88kg for both.

On the Shimano Steps web site both are listed as 2,8kg. I guess the internals are pretty much the same.
E7000 e-Bike System – SHIMANO STEPS
E8000 e-Bike System – SHIMANO STEPS

I was hoping the E7000 would be smaller/lighter, but I guess being cheaper will do.

E7000 seems to be slightly more quiet, specs says "Noise level: -2 dB (vs E8000) ". And I like the balance between power and control for Boost-mode. The E8000 needs better resolution on the assistance tuning to acheive the same I think.

Here they list it as "Average weight 2,88kg" (whatever that means) but the few grams doesn't make any difference they are the same. I didn't catch the -2 dB, less noise is always welcome.
DU-E7000

I think it will be popular, after a year with the E8000 I wouldn't hesitate to get it. I like the natural feeling of the Shimano. Boost on the E8000 is harder to control especially at low speed (as I remember it was improved in one of the firmware updates) but I'm running 99% Eco and Trail (Mid) so it doesn't matter to me.