Shimano Battery Issue (refused warranty claim) where do i stand?

[LAWHITEY]

Hoping for some feedback on this please, where do i go next. Have been in discussion with Chain Reaction regarding a warranty claim for the following.
I have a Vitus E Sommet (bought Sept 2023) and have been having issues with the 630wh battery. The issue started after only approx 13 charging cycles, the battery goes down gradually and as expected in nice percentage increments from 100% to the 20% point, (I have this linked to my Garmin which shows me the actual percentage rather than relying on the 5 x 20%bars on the Shimano display) once it gets to the 20% point it drops off a cliff down to 3%, within the space of like 500m and this isn't going uphill either, this is mainly going down hill with some flat as it's near the end of my ride where I have been making sure to do a route where I have no hills to get home (like I did the first time this happened when it caught me out). After reading online I can't see anyone else reporting this issue apart from someone that's had about 200 charge cycles, which might be expected although I think Shimano quotes 500 charge cycles before you start losing any drop in lifespan.

Initially CRC told me to check on the app that everything was up to date and it was but I was speaking to my local bike guy who is authorised for Shimano and Bosch and he said I could take it to him and he would do a diagnostic on the battery so I had some form of proof to send CRC. Diagnostic 1, everything was fine and no issues reported, after this he told me to go away and ride the bike again but bring it back with the battery nearly depleted and he would do a 2nd one. I did this and diagnostic 2 again showed no issues.

So i'm now at a loss as after sending CRC the diagnotics they have refused the claim (probably shouldnt have sent these). The low amount of charge cycles and actual use of the battery (about 450miles) there is no way it should be behaving how it is, the battery has always been stored and charged in my home, so the cold can't have done anything to this, what about these people that just leave the battery in the bike and charge in the garage where it's cold??. There was one point where I thought to take it back to default settings on the app and this still made no difference on that ride.

See below the response from CRC
I'm afraid as the reports show me no issues with your battery we wouldn't be looking to progress your claim. There are many factors the weather being one that can affect your battery's performance and it's imperative that it is stored as per the manufacturers guides.

My best suggestion is to go back to your dealer and see if they are willing to raise a claim for you, as we would have to get the whole bike back as are not able to accept battery returns on their own.

Ok, when this first happened it was in November so might have been a bit cold, i understand the cold might do something but dropping instantly from 20% - 3%, this can't be normal.
This has put me off the Shimano set up and now and im looking at a new Bosch powered or Giant bike but i obvioulsy can't sell the bike with the battery how it is?

Sorry its a bit long winded, but is my next port of call going direct to Shimano seeing as CRC has fobbed me off? Or anyone want to buy a cheap lightly used E Sommet

 

[Growmac]

I had a similar issue and was similarly fobbed off. I eventually went to small claims court. I’m not allowed to discuss the outcome, but I was happy.

 

[Bones]

If it's testing out ok then does it actually die and you end up walking or is the display just giving you duff info?
You need to know before you can go any further.
Don't always believe what it says, especially how many miles left.
I'm going to the bike shop on Thursday to try and get a warranty claim on a faulty battery.
Mine does completely die and it's me in walk mode!

 

[MattyB]

Hoping for some feedback on this please, where do i go next. Have been in discussion with Chain Reaction regarding a warranty claim for the following.
I have a Vitus E Sommet (bought Sept 2023) and have been having issues with the 630wh battery. The issue started after only approx 13 charging cycles, the battery goes down gradually and as expected in nice percentage increments from 100% to the 20% point, (I have this linked to my Garmin which shows me the actual percentage rather than relying on the 5 x 20%bars on the Shimano display) once it gets to the 20% point it drops off a cliff down to 3%, within the space of like 500m and this isn't going uphill either, this is mainly going down hill with some flat as it's near the end of my ride where I have been making sure to do a route where I have no hills to get home (like I did the first time this happened when it caught me out). After reading online I can't see anyone else reporting this issue apart from someone that's had about 200 charge cycles, which might be expected although I think Shimano quotes 500 charge cycles before you start losing any drop in lifespan.

Initially CRC told me to check on the app that everything was up to date and it was but I was speaking to my local bike guy who is authorised for Shimano and Bosch and he said I could take it to him and he would do a diagnostic on the battery so I had some form of proof to send CRC. Diagnostic 1, everything was fine and no issues reported, after this he told me to go away and ride the bike again but bring it back with the battery nearly depleted and he would do a 2nd one. I did this and diagnostic 2 again showed no issues.

So i'm now at a loss as after sending CRC the diagnotics they have refused the claim (probably shouldnt have sent these). The low amount of charge cycles and actual use of the battery (about 450miles) there is no way it should be behaving how it is, the battery has always been stored and charged in my home, so the cold can't have done anything to this, what about these people that just leave the battery in the bike and charge in the garage where it's cold??. There was one point where I thought to take it back to default settings on the app and this still made no difference on that ride.

See below the response from CRC
I'm afraid as the reports show me no issues with your battery we wouldn't be looking to progress your claim. There are many factors the weather being one that can affect your battery's performance and it's imperative that it is stored as per the manufacturers guides.

My best suggestion is to go back to your dealer and see if they are willing to raise a claim for you, as we would have to get the whole bike back as are not able to accept battery returns on their own.

Ok, when this first happened it was in November so might have been a bit cold, i understand the cold might do something but dropping instantly from 20% - 3%, this can't be normal.
This has put me off the Shimano set up and now and im looking at a new Bosch powered or Giant bike but i obvioulsy can't sell the bike with the battery how it is?

Sorry its a bit long winded, but is my next port of call going direct to Shimano seeing as CRC has fobbed me off? Or anyone want to buy a cheap lightly used E Sommet

How many miles of range and metres of elevation are you getting out of the bike before it goes flat? It may just be that the sensing of the battery voltage (which I'm guessing they use to estimate % capacity remaining) is wrong for some reason.

 

[LAWHITEY]

If it's testing out ok then does it actually die and you end up walking or is the display just giving you duff info?
You need to know before you can go any further.
Don't always believe what it says, especially how many miles left.
I'm going to the bike shop on Thursday to try and get a warranty claim on a faulty battery.
Mine does completely die and it's me in walk mode!

AHH you know what, I haven't actually ridden it until dead, it once went from 3% down to 1% but I was yards from home when that happened. What percentage does yours get to when it completely dies?

 

[LAWHITEY]

How many miles of range and metres of elevation are you getting out of the bike before it goes flat? It may just be that the sensing of the battery voltage (which I'm guessing they use to estimate % capacity remaining) is wrong for some reason.

The first ride it happened was 23 mile 2200ft of elevation, 2nd ride was 17 mile 2000ft, 3rd ride was 15 mile 1700ft and the last one was 18 mile 2100ft, the first 3 was riding a mixture of trail and boost the last one I purposely stayed in trail for 90% of the ride to see if that made a difference, also to give you and idea I'm in the high 18 stones fully kitted up.

 

[LAWHITEY]

I had a similar issue and was similarly fobbed off. I eventually went to small claims court. I’m not allowed to discuss the outcome, but I was happy.

Ah that's great news for you, assume you can't say if it was CRC??

 

[Bones]

AHH you know what, I haven't actually ridden it until dead, it once went from 3% down to 1% but I was yards from home when that happened. What percentage does yours get to when it completely dies?

Deader than a dead thing

 

[Mrj35]

The first ride it happened was 23 mile 2200ft of elevation, 2nd ride was 17 mile 2000ft, 3rd ride was 15 mile 1700ft and the last one was 18 mile 2100ft, the first 3 was riding a mixture of trail and boost the last one I purposely stayed in trail for 90% of the ride to see if that made a difference, also to give you and idea I'm in the high 18 stones fully kitted up.

it can depend on the type of riding too. Like if its very technical steep climbs for 2000ft your battery may drain in <10 miles. Test it on the exact same route and power output 5 times and take the average.

 

[Growmac]

Ah that's great news for you, assume you can't say if it was CRC??

No it wasn't CRC. It went to arbitration and the outcome is under NDA.

 

[robbydobs]

My older BT-E8010 batteries did the same thing. I captured the battery state with a Garmin 830...

Battery laster 1hr28.
Last 20% lasted only 7 minutes or so.
As you can see from the below times, the last 4% vanished in seconds.

This is a summer evening, with temp of around 19 deg C

I think the battery management system is just rubbish. When the battery is under load, I guess the voltage drops, so the BMS thinks the battery is empty. I'd imagine switching to eco would make it last longer.

Here are the whole ride stats...

Distance 11.45 mi
Time 1:34:53
Avg Speed 7.2 mph
Total Ascent 986 m

Here's another ride, same thing happened except battery quickly went from 7% to 0% in seconds...
Distance 10.39 mi
Time 1:34:03
Avg Speed 6.6 mph
Total Ascent 869 m

 

[LAWHITEY]

View attachment 133987
Deader than a dead thing

Oh right and thats on a Bosch, thought you meant same issue on Shimano, so they all have the same problems !!!

 

[LAWHITEY]

My older BT-E8010 batteries did the same thing. I captured the battery state with a Garmin 830...

Battery laster 1hr28.
Last 20% lasted only 7 minutes or so.
As you can see from the below times, the last 4% vanished in seconds.

This is a summer evening, with temp of around 19 deg C

I think the battery management system is just rubbish. When the battery is under load, I guess the voltage drops, so the BMS thinks the battery is empty. I'd imagine switching to eco would make it last longer.

View attachment 134007


Here are the whole ride stats...

Distance 11.45 mi
Time 1:34:53
Avg Speed 7.2 mph
Total Ascent 986 m

View attachment 134008



Here's another ride, same thing happened except battery quickly went from 7% to 0% in seconds...
Distance 10.39 mi
Time 1:34:03
Avg Speed 6.6 mph
Total Ascent 869 m

View attachment 134009

Thanks fo rthe detail, at least you were managing to get down to 7% before it went.

 

[Bones]

Oh right and thats on a Bosch, thought you meant same issue on Shimano, so they all have the same problems !!!

Yes it's Bosch. But I was getting at wether the display was giving you the correct info.

 

[G-Sport]

My Specialized is similar to this and has been since new. When it gets to 13% it is essentially empty, won't do anything over Eco and when I have had to carry on it cuts out entirely soon after.
This is inherent to all L-ion batteries to a certain extent. The voltage drops quickly at the start from eg. 4.25V to about 4V, then slowly drops down in a linear way to around 3V and then starts going off a cliff.
Battery monitoring goes off voltage and it is very hard to be accurate at the top and bottom. As the voltage drops, to get the same power you have to draw more current, so the battery really starts to struggle at the end.
Some brands, and some individual batteries may do better on keeping the reported percentage accurate, but I doubt your battery is really "faulty" as such.

 

[James_C]

I'd second that. Mine goes downhill rapidly about 18%. You can't expect the battery to give full power to the motor until its at 0%. I don't think any battery would work like that?

If you regularly use the whole battery perhaps consider a range extender or even 2nd battery.

 

[LAWHITEY]

My Specialized is similar to this and has been since new. When it gets to 13% it is essentially empty, won't do anything over Eco and when I have had to carry on it cuts out entirely soon after.
This is inherent to all L-ion batteries to a certain extent. The voltage drops quickly at the start from eg. 4.25V to about 4V, then slowly drops down in a linear way to around 3V and then starts going off a cliff.
Battery monitoring goes off voltage and it is very hard to be accurate at the top and bottom. As the voltage drops, to get the same power you have to draw more current, so the battery really starts to struggle at the end.
Some brands, and some individual batteries may do better on keeping the reported percentage accurate, but I doubt your battery is really "faulty" as such.

No way should that be happening from new, my previous shimano (not EP8) was absolutly fine and and always got the full use of the battery down to low% under 5%, the new bike EP8 bike/battery has also been fine up until that initial time it happened.

 

[LAWHITEY]

I'd second that. Mine goes downhill rapidly about 18%. You can't expect the battery to give full power to the motor until its at 0%. I don't think any battery would work like that?

If you regularly use the whole battery perhaps consider a range extender or even 2nd battery.

Glad mine isnt the only one then but this cant be normal, are you refering to any type of battery, imagine if all the mobile phones of this world has the same characteristic?? So in the real world this means if i buy a new bike im definatly going to need a 750wh battery to expect to get the full range that i would expect out of a 630wh battery.

 

[B1rdie]

Measuring battery charge with the accuracy you desire is not possible, shimano gives a clue when they decide to use the five bar indication instead of a percentage. To know if a battery is not working properly it should be tested by dedicated precision workbench by a dealer.
You may get reliable information about the capacity of shimano battery with third party software like ST unlocker. Mine are both at 84% after five years of use.

 

[G-Sport]

Glad mine isnt the only one then but this cant be normal, are you refering to any type of battery, imagine if all the mobile phones of this world has the same characteristic?? So in the real world this means if i buy a new bike im definatly going to need a 750wh battery to expect to get the full range that i would expect out of a 630wh battery.

My phone does this too. When it gets down to 15% or so that last 15% goes much faster than the first 15% did. When it gets to 5% it is moments from shutting down.

This graph isn't the best but it gives an idea. That last 15% or so is far from linear and predictions are hard to make. You DO still get all the energy claimed, but you probably had a lot more at the start than it seemed.
So I often find that 100% to 80% seems to take longer than 80% to 60%, which in turn is longer than 60% to 40%. I always work on wanting to get home with 20% left to be safe (or accept I may have to do all the work back up the hill home). So 60% is my half-way point.

 

[irie]

I always work on wanting to get home with 20% left to be safe (or accept I may have to do all the work back up the hill home). So 60% is my half-way point.

When my Bosch battery gets down to 20% I know that I have to get back to base PDQ, that last 20% disappears very quickly.

 

[Tubby G]

Same here, 20% is my alarm call to start heading back to the car. That’s on both Bosch and Shimano batteries. It’s rare I’d finish a ride with less than 15% as I know there’s only a few miles left in the tank

 

[robbydobs]

I'm no electronics engineer, but you'd think there would be some way to take this into account when displaying the percentage. We've all figured it out, so why can't the battery management system? Just mark the current 20% as 10% or something and scale everything from that leaving a bit left over.

Reminds me of those progress bars in Windows...

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Hoping for some feedback on this please, where do i go next. Have been in discussion with Chain Reaction regarding a warranty claim for the following.
I have a Vitus E Sommet (bought Sept 2023) and have been having issues with the 630wh battery. The issue started after only approx 13 charging cycles, the battery goes down gradually and as expected in nice percentage increments from 100% to the 20% point, (I have this linked to my Garmin which shows me the actual percentage rather than relying on the 5 x 20%bars on the Shimano display) once it gets to the 20% point it drops off a cliff down to 3%, within the space of like 500m and this isn't going uphill either, this is mainly going down hill with some flat as it's near the end of my ride where I have been making sure to do a route where I have no hills to get home (like I did the first time this happened when it caught me out). After reading online I can't see anyone else reporting this issue apart from someone that's had about 200 charge cycles, which might be expected although I think Shimano quotes 500 charge cycles before you start losing any drop in lifespan.

Initially CRC told me to check on the app that everything was up to date and it was but I was speaking to my local bike guy who is authorised for Shimano and Bosch and he said I could take it to him and he would do a diagnostic on the battery so I had some form of proof to send CRC. Diagnostic 1, everything was fine and no issues reported, after this he told me to go away and ride the bike again but bring it back with the battery nearly depleted and he would do a 2nd one. I did this and diagnostic 2 again showed no issues.

So i'm now at a loss as after sending CRC the diagnotics they have refused the claim (probably shouldnt have sent these). The low amount of charge cycles and actual use of the battery (about 450miles) there is no way it should be behaving how it is, the battery has always been stored and charged in my home, so the cold can't have done anything to this, what about these people that just leave the battery in the bike and charge in the garage where it's cold??. There was one point where I thought to take it back to default settings on the app and this still made no difference on that ride.

See below the response from CRC
I'm afraid as the reports show me no issues with your battery we wouldn't be looking to progress your claim. There are many factors the weather being one that can affect your battery's performance and it's imperative that it is stored as per the manufacturers guides.

My best suggestion is to go back to your dealer and see if they are willing to raise a claim for you, as we would have to get the whole bike back as are not able to accept battery returns on their own.

Ok, when this first happened it was in November so might have been a bit cold, i understand the cold might do something but dropping instantly from 20% - 3%, this can't be normal.
This has put me off the Shimano set up and now and im looking at a new Bosch powered or Giant bike but i obvioulsy can't sell the bike with the battery how it is?

Sorry its a bit long winded, but is my next port of call going direct to Shimano seeing as CRC has fobbed me off? Or anyone want to buy a cheap lightly used E Sommet

High Rock Ruti

Isn't your warranty in effect? Two years?
Do you live in a locality that has implied warranty Statutes? I've gotten two full refunds from specialized. Bought a new Specialized with the money I'm on motor number 4, it's ready to be replaced?

warm Regards Ruti

 

[16Rally]

This is straight out of: "Complete E-Bike Battery Care Guide"
(you can Google for the full article)

E-Bike Battery Best Practices

Keep Timing In Mind​

If you intend to use your bike soon after charging the battery, it’s fine to charge to 100%. If you cannot use it right after your charge, charging to approximately 80-90% can be beneficial. You can stop charging when the battery reaches the last stage (constant voltage mode if your battery has five LED bars to indicate the charge state) and then stop charging when it reaches the fifth bar, but it doesn’t need to be exact.

You can double the lifecycle of your battery by only charging it to 80%, so try to keep the state of charge between 20-80% where possible. A simple rule of thumb is that if you can drain the battery within an hour, it’s time to take a step back and consider whether you’re causing aggressive battery wear and tear. If your commute or riding pattern takes two to three hours before you can drain the battery to 10%, you’re fine. There are other cheaper options out there that do a similar job.

 

[pc1970]

My shimano steps battery would do same thing 40 miles on first 4 bars and the last 20% goes very fast. Overall I was very happy with the range so didnt take it any further. I also believe the first 20% used to last the longest but the could have been in my head (or in my legs )

 

[Cyclopath1000]

one of your small 3.6 v individual batteries is defective. there were discussions about this during the pandemic. there were and maybe are remanufacturers who could identify and replace the one or more single cells that are not holding charge.

 

[LAWHITEY]

High Rock Ruti

Isn't your warranty in effect? Two years?
Do you live in a locality that has implied warranty Statutes? I've gotten two full refunds from specialized. Bought a new Specialized with the money I'm on motor number 4, it's ready to be replaced?

warm Regards Ruti

Yes still got over 6 months left, obviously Specialized are better that Chain Reaction at honouring warranty.

 

[gsum]

I have exactly the same problem with my Shimano 360 Wh battery on my Rise and have been caught out a couple of times. As the the battery range is as expected I assume it is just poor range reporting.

 

[Scuirus]

The battery has to go trough a couple of complete charging/discharging cycles before the battery gauge learns the battery to be able to show correct SoC.