Selling an emtb - no warranty

[Born2ski691]

Dude,

Everything from taxes to regulations to how people view the world. They pay twice as much for sales tax, so the used market, bypassing sales tax, would be different. There are different warranty regulations (both for better and for worse), so again, the new/used equation changes.

If you're talking about EVs, all of that, plus the fact that infrastructure and spaces are radically different. You can drive between countries there faster than I can get to the next major city.

I’ve lived in Europe. I get all that. But what specific to emtb are you saying? Are UK (or EU) used prices as high as in the USA? Who in their right mind would take a risk on some internet stranger to save 10-20% off of a new, warranted bIke from a dealer?

Price for public EV charging is £0.70-£1/kWh. Even home charging is £0.35 unless you’re on an EV tariff. Somewhat different to $0.06/kWh. The infrastructure in the UK is massively inferior to the USA too.

US electric rates are NOT as you outline. Example, here in Massachusetts's we are charged $.25 per KWHr for the electric supply, plus 7-8 other "Delivery" line items (see attached - MY recent bill) which equate to maybe $.18 /KWHr for a total of ~$.43 / KWHr. Still 1/2 of your UK prices, but still WAY over your 6 cents so I wanted to point this out

 

[Born2ski691]

No way am I being mugged in to buying an electric car
Big con
I wouldn't even get to my brothers place just short of the Scottish border without having to fully recharge it again standing about for hours

Around here it gets cold in the winters often and e- vehicles absolutely suck on range when the temps get to single digits Fahrenheit

 

[Doomanic]

Here we pay 5.1 cents per KWH,

That’s what I was basing my post on.

 

[Paulquattro]

Assuming that I could afford to buy it of course.

And there's another topic cost
When one poster on here mentions he payed 28k second hand oh let me rephrase that ONLY 28k second hand there on another planet to the majority of this country and the normal persons income in the UK as it stands
i personally paid £4500 for my car 6 yrs ago and have spent on maintenance about £500 pounds in the last 50k miles obviously we have to include fuel but in this country (UK) electricity is so expensive especially at public chargers if and when you could find one working that is or use one without waiting that its the same cost on a 1000 mile run as my petrol car and half the journey time so as already said the Uk infrastructure isnt there or the EV price point for the majority in the UK .

 

[Paul Mac]

I think what we can glean from this thread regarding EVs is they're not for everyone at the moment.
But for those that live in a part of the country that has a good charger network and can charge at home on a cheap tariff, they are brilliant.
I am in that category and have owned an EV for the last 3 years, it is hands down the best motoring experience I have ever had and I would never go back to ICE.
But one size doesn't fit all.

 

[Doomanic]

But one size doesn't fit all.

So true.

I’d love a decent eCar but the cheapest Model 3 on autotrader isn’t much less than my annual take home. I could probably run to one of those Chinese MGs, at a push.

 

[The EMF]

Recently sold a 2018 Merida. 2nd motor on it with 2 months warranty left. Sold it for 35% of costs. Bikes will sell but you’ve got be realistic with the asking price

Totally agree

 

[Paul Mac]

So true.

I’d love a decent eCar but the cheapest Model 3 on autotrader isn’t much less than my annual take home. I could probably run to one of those Chinese MGs, at a push.

I made that mistake as well, I'm no big earner by any stretch, ignore the sticker price.
I worked it out on a monthly outlay.
If you cost it out over a 3 year PCP or lease and include the cheap running costs and lack of tax, servicing etc, it is actually cheaper than a middle of the road ICE car.

 

[Born2ski691]

Getting back on topic, maybe , I’d like to learn more about the pre-owned EMTB valuations/listing prices and sales prices.

Without positively knowing the history of let’s say a Trek 9.8, let’s say 2-3 years old and 500-1000 miles (or maybe 2k mi?), what % below new selling prices is the bike worth? Let’s take an $8500 (US$) new sales price bike equivalent but a couple generations older, would 35-45% be the right range?

 

[Paul Mac]

Getting back on topic, maybe , I’d like to learn more about the pre-owned EMTB valuations/listing prices and sales prices.

Without positively knowing the history of let’s say a Trek 9.8, let’s say 2-3 years old and 500-1000 miles (or maybe 2k mi?), what % below new selling prices is the bike worth? Let’s take an $8500 (US$) new sales price bike equivalent but a couple generations older, would 35-45% be the right range?

Yes sorry about getting sidetracked
I've sold a 2020 Trek Rail 9.8 with 2000 miles on new motor, 2 years old and out of warranty for £3600. Bought new for £5000 and sold in mid 2022.
I've just sold my 2022 Trek Rail 9.8 with 2700 miles, still with 12 months warranty left for £4250. Paid £7000 for it last year.
The price people are willing to pay for used now has dropped significantly

 

[Doomanic]

I can’t shift my 2020 2700 mile Rail 7 for even half price.

 

[MountainBoy]

I was shocked too.



They are, right now, in that process. Unlike the others where I have to figure out/buy the adapter, Tesla is retrofitting the adapter into the Superchargers.

Yes, that's a positive development so non-Tesla owners don't need to rely entirely on unreliable, expensive, and often oddly placed third-party charging networks, but my point was that Tesla will not open 100% of the Supercharge network to other auto brands - an EV road-tripper will only have access to all Superchargers if they have a Tesla. And the driver of a non-Tesla cannot avoid paying the monthly subscription if they want the same low charging price offered to everyone with a Tesla.

This makes sense considering that Tesla funded the Supercharger Network with car sales because they realized that trip charging was a basic need of their customers and other companies were not addressing this need for their customers. Sure, 95% of all charging happens at home or work, but most people still take road trips from time to time.

I love road-tripping in our Tesla!

 

[Born2ski691]

I can’t shift my 2020 2700 mile Rail 7 for even half price.

2700 miles…. Yea, I’d run from that… maybe 25% if I saw the bike. I’d expect a couple thousand in repairs really soon and with the new 7, gen 2 selling for $5k, it’s a hard proposition, isn’t it?

 

[Paul Mac]

I think part of the problem is us, expecting ultra low mileage bikes.
I think Bosch quotes about a 30k mile life for a motor and we're baulking at buying one with 2k on it.
It was same when I was into motorbikes, you were made to think your bike was high mileage at 3k miles, yet I still see 25 year old R1s still being ridden around

 

[1oldfart]

I think part of the problem is us, expecting ultra low mileage bikes.
I think Bosch quotes about a 30k mile life for a motor and we're baulking at buying one with 2k on it.
It was same when I was into motorbikes, you were made to think your bike was high mileage at 3k miles, yet I still see 25 year old R1s still being ridden around

I would see a low mileage as it might have been in the shop a lot.

 

[Doomanic]

If a Bosch motor gets replaced under warranty the mileage is reset to zero, so that nice shiny low mileage bike not might be exactly what it seems...

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

That's another reason not to buy second hand e-bikes if you can avoid it or have the possibility to buy new.

 

[Tooks]

I love e-mtbs, even used ones, and I also love EVs. Sorry!

I’ve considered selling my 2019 Focus Jam2, but I still enjoy riding it and it’s a good ‘back up bike’ should my Levo be out of action for whatever reason. Not sure what it’d fetch, probably not enough to make it worth my while.

It’s also a good loan bike if one of my brothers comes over for the weekend and we fancy a ride out.

On the EV thing, I’ve had one since 2014 in some shape or other, my wife has an EV now too. I cover about 26k miles a year in mine, and shock horror it’s not a Tesla.

I do 80% of my charging at home, on an E7 tariff @12p per kWh and have an Elli subscription for those longer beyond return range trips, drops the cost to circa 30p per kWh.

The Tesla network is good, my wife has a Tesla M3, but even that isn’t omni-present, but fortunately there are other rapid charger hubs coming online all over the UK every week.

I charge my e-bikes from my workshop solar setup though, even better!

As somebody else said earlier, they’re not for everybody, but they will work for an awful lot of people already, and the falling used prices on some models are making them more accessible all the time.

 

[Born2ski691]

That's another reason not to buy second hand e-bikes if you can avoid it or have the possibility to buy new.

Hence some of the the anxiety of buying used. Add to that the tech is improving rapidly, batteries have limited life and a LOT of battery 🪫 degradation is caused by poor charging and storage habits, one has to assume the battery is close to EOL.

 

[Born2ski691]

I love e-mtbs, even used ones, and I also love EVs. Sorry!

I’ve considered selling my 2019 Focus Jam2, but I still enjoy riding it and it’s a good ‘back up bike’ should my Levo be out of action for whatever reason. Not sure what it’d fetch, probably not enough to make it worth my while.

It’s also a good loan bike if one of my brothers comes over for the weekend and we fancy a ride out.

On the EV thing, I’ve had one since 2014 in some shape or other, my wife has an EV now too. I cover about 26k miles a year in mine, and shock horror it’s not a Tesla.

I do 80% of my charging at home, on an E7 tariff @12p per kWh and have an Elli subscription for those longer beyond return range trips, drops the cost to circa 30p per kWh.

The Tesla network is good, my wife has a Tesla M3, but even that isn’t omni-present, but fortunately there are other rapid charger hubs coming online all over the UK every week.

I charge my e-bikes from my workshop solar setup though, even better!

As somebody else said earlier, they’re not for everybody, but they will work for an awful lot of people already, and the falling used prices on some models are making them more accessible all the time.

I’d love an EV, but as someone who skis I’ve seen first hand how battery capacity is killed by cold winter mountain area temperatures.

 

[Tooks]

I’d love an EV, but as someone who skis I’ve seen first hand how battery capacity is killed by cold winter mountain area temperatures.

Yes, a cold battery has less capacity, but perhaps you’re making it more of an issue than it is?

I’ve driven my EVs in all weathers, including Nordic countries and to the Alps and back skiing.

One of the biggest adopters of EVs is Norway, a country known for its long cold winters, and they get along just fine.

My current EV seems to have a max range in the summer of around 260-280 miles, and about 20% less than that in a cold wet winter, so 208-224.

 

[MountainBoy]

I’d love an EV, but as someone who skis I’ve seen first hand how battery capacity is killed by cold winter mountain area temperatures.

As someone who puts their eMTB away in the winter months and switches to an avid storm/powder skier, and an owner of a Tesla AWD Model 3 for 5 years, I can tell you this EV is the best ski car I've ever had including Volvo's, VW's, and Subaru's. The reduced range in winter is not a problem because we are not driving hundreds of miles before/after skiing. Even if we did, a 20-minute rest break at a Supercharger to pee and get a coffee would zap another three hours travel time into the battery. Best of all, no ski car I've ever had is as planted on icy highways before they have been sanded, so I arrive to the ski area more relaxed and ready to enjoy the powder.

Media reports exaggerate both the amount of range reduction and of course whether it actually matters for the typical motorist. There is a concerted effort to make the public think EV's are not ready for prime time, but Tesla continues to expand their fast-charging network at a rapid pace even though most EV's are charged 95% of the time at regular Level 2 speeds at home or work, the same way most people here charge their eMTB's. Also, modern EV's have much more sophisticated battery temperature regulation using a liquid medium to transfer heat into/away from the battery as needed for optimum battery life and range.

Disclaimer: I've never owned one of the EV's with less advanced battery technology like a Nissan Leaf (no liquid thermal management system) or a Chevy Bolt EV (outdated prismatic cells). I imagine their shorter ranges and less sophisticated `battery management systems, coupled with inferior fast charging networks, could leave them wanting in frigid temperatures. Because I drive in the wide-open areas of the American West, I want an EV with at least 300+ miles of EPA rated range and a reliable fast charging network for longer road trips.

Fortunately, the same kind of negative propaganda has not been directed at eMTB's because they don't threaten big business interests like oil refiners, gas station chains, nationwide oil change franchises, auto dealership groups, auto manufacturers, auto parts suppliers, etc. eMTB's have actually increased business at local bike shops and the profits of bike manufacturers are way up. So eMTB's get relatively unbiased coverage most of the time, unlike their automotive counterparts.

 

[Born2ski691]

As someone who puts their eMTB away in the winter months and switches to an avid storm/powder skier, and an owner of a Tesla AWD Model 3 for 5 years, I can tell you this EV is the best ski car I've ever had including Volvo's, VW's, and Subaru's. The reduced range in winter is not a problem because we are not driving hundreds of miles before/after skiing. Even if we did, a 20-minute rest break at a Supercharger to pee and get a coffee would zap another three hours travel time into the battery. Best of all, no ski car I've ever had is as planted on icy highways before they have been sanded, so I arrive to the ski area more relaxed and ready to enjoy the powder.

Media reports exaggerate both the amount of range reduction and of course whether it actually matters for the typical motorist. There is a concerted effort to make the public think EV's are not ready for prime time, but Tesla continues to expand their fast-charging network at a rapid pace even though most EV's are charged 95% of the time at regular Level 2 speeds at home or work, the same way most people here charge their eMTB's. Also, modern EV's have much more sophisticated battery temperature regulation using a liquid medium to transfer heat into/away from the battery as needed for optimum battery life and range.

Disclaimer: I've never owned one of the EV's with less advanced battery technology like a Nissan Leaf (no liquid thermal management system) or a Chevy Bolt EV (outdated prismatic cells). I imagine their shorter ranges and less sophisticated `battery management systems, coupled with inferior fast charging networks, could leave them wanting in frigid temperatures. Because I drive in the wide-open areas of the American West, I want an EV with at least 300+ miles of EPA rated range and a reliable fast charging network for longer road trips.

Fortunately, the same kind of negative propaganda has not been directed at eMTB's because they don't threaten big business interests like oil refiners, gas station chains, nationwide oil change franchises, auto dealership groups, auto manufacturers, auto parts suppliers, etc. eMTB's have actually increased business at local bike shops and the profits of bike manufacturers are way up. So eMTB's get relatively unbiased coverage most of the time, unlike their automotive counterparts.

Great info. My experience is particular to park city and the Bolt or Volt so I guess it’s not apples to apples. My ex-in-laws had one and literally driving 4 miles into PC we’d loose 50% battery with temps in the single digits. Good to know Tesla is ahead of this curve, substantially.

 

[Born2ski691]

Great info. My experience is particular to park city and the Bolt or Volt so I guess it’s not apples to apples. My ex-in-laws had one and literally driving 4 miles into PC we’d loose 50% battery with temps in the single digits. Good to know Tesla is ahead of this curve, substantially.

Actually, I think it was the leaf but doesn’t matter…

 

[Tooks]

I think a lot of EV folklore is built on the Mk1 Leaf, it set a lot of internet hares off running and they’re taking a long time to track down!

Just about every EV on sale from Tesla and every other mainstream manufacturer will have heated and cooled battery packs with advanced battery management systems.

The exception is still the Mk2 Nissan Leaf, but the Ariya from the same manufacturer uses a actively cooled or heated pack, and has also ditched ChaDeMo for CCS2 as the rapid charging connector, which is the European standard now. It’s the Type2 connector for charging at home and the CCS2 for en-route rapid charging.

 

[SwampNut]

I thought the thread was about SELLING a bike, not buying one? I personally have purchased a used bike, and would do so again in certain circumstances. I've also sold more used bikes than I've bought. I'm unlikely to buy used in the future because I've moved to wanting the most updated bikes possible. But SELLING bikes is something I'll do, and have found it easy.

 

[Growmac]

I sold my Merida e160 at the point where it had just had a new motor. I figured that was going to be the best value for me and for a potential buyer as, while no warranty, at least there was a reasonable chance of them getting a good run from the new power unit. I also swapped the Zeb off my new Trek onto it as I prefer the Fox forks, and again, brand new components have to help.

I got £3,700 for it after 2 and a bit years and about 3,500 km. It was well looked after and had two batteries, one of which wasn't in great way. I think the buyer and I both got a pretty good deal.

 

[Jamie78]

As the title states, e-bike warranty is only 2-3 years on most for the e-parts while the frame would have a 10-lifetime warranty..

So for example my 3 year old rail with no current issues, only 1k on the clock, selling for around half the rrp, would you buy one? Would you be Comfortable enough to sell one on to a new owner?

Non e-bikes it’s easy get them serviced or even sell as a few jobs needed, but as we all know an e-bike could be fine today and have an error code tomorrow and then it’s expensive to fix compared to other bikes.

If you can’t sell it or choose not to, what do you do with it? Looking on ebay and other selling sites e-bikes don’t seem to sell, see the same ones month in month out, is there no buyer confidence in second hand e-bikes?

I just assumed when I got mine that I will have it basically forever. With warranties running out after two years for motors, I can't see any buyer interested in buying it.