Sad day for my Decoy

[baldiebenty]

2020 29er Base or whatever they were called back then.
Over the weekend I noticed quite a lot of play in the bikes backend, most probably because I've been riding another bike quite a bit that hasn't got anywhere near the miles on it that my Decoy has. So I noticed the difference in "feel". There was also a knocking sound which I hadn't heard before.
I traced the play back to the lower link axle bearings and after stripping it down I've found that the bearings themselves are moving in the frame, neither bearing is seized but the drive side one is able to move to and fro about a mm and rotate within the shell in the frame. I replaced these bearings about 12-18 months ago and now I'm nervous I did something wrong
YT have asked me to send the bike back for them to look at but it's near 4 years old and I don't have very high hopes I've attached a couple of photos that show as best I can the movement available.
Check your bearings folks! Even those pesky ones hidden away from sight.

 

[baldiebenty]

Unfortunately the pivot link moves quite a bit, feels a bit like the bike has a hinge in the middle, if I carry on riding it it'll just get worse. If YT refuse the warranty I'm not sure what I'll do, I'm pretty gutted really as it's been my favourite bike by a long way.

 

[baldiebenty]

I pulled out the bearings last night and found that the inner sleeve (not the one that is meant to come out with the bearings) is able to rotate, is that normal? I would have thought that would be bonded to the carbon.
I also tried putting the bearings back in with some retaining compound to see if that would help but the bearings were pretty easy to push back in, could almost do it with my thumbs so I think they've been moving for a while and worn/ovalized the frame seating, gotta clean it all up properly and pack it off back to YT now

 

[doochenozzle]

How did you press the bearings back into the frame when you serviced it? I’ve only done bearings on one frame and used the green loctite to bond the outer race to the alloy frame. No idea if there’s a carbon equivalent to the green stuff.

 

[wenna]

Worst case you have to use some shims around the outside of the new bearings. Don´t know if it´s possible to go up one size on the bearing.

 

[baldiebenty]

How did you press the bearings back into the frame when you serviced it? I’ve only done bearings on one frame and used the green loctite to bond the outer race to the alloy frame. No idea if there’s a carbon equivalent to the green stuff.

I've got a cheap press, basically a threaded rod and 2 bars along with the correct size presses. I've tried some green loctite that I had already, I did a bit of research and apparently it should be fine with the carbon, I'm waiting as long as possible before giving them a wiggle to see if it helps. If it does I can do that every now and again if YT aren't any help.
I never figured out how to get the bearings out of the link itself though, they're blind and interior facing and there doesn't seem any room to do much

 

[baldiebenty]

Worst case you have to use some shims around the outside of the new bearings. Don´t know if it´s possible to go up one size on the bearing.

Yeah, I have thought about that, need to have a look to see if there is one with a 1mm bigger outer diameter and the same interior

 

[Beaker2135]

That frame looks battered. I’m guessing it’s at the end of its useful life
I hope YT see it differently and you get it sorted in some way or another

 

[baldiebenty]

I've got a cheap press, basically a threaded rod and 2 bars along with the correct size presses. I've tried some green loctite that I had already, I did a bit of research and apparently it should be fine with the carbon, I'm waiting as long as possible before giving them a wiggle to see if it helps. If it does I can do that every now and again if YT aren't any help.
I never figured out how to get the bearings out of the link itself though, they're blind and interior facing and there doesn't seem any room to do much

Yeah, it didn't work

 

[baldiebenty]

That frame looks battered. I’m guessing it’s at the end of its useful life
I hope YT see it differently and you get it sorted in some way or another

It's certainly been enjoyed although something of what you can see might be a bit of duck tape I use to cover up the port where the gear cable used to feed in since I fitted AXS. Mechanically I've looked after it, I don't spend much time on polishing it though. More than 4k miles and still on the original motor

 

[baldiebenty]

In a surprise turn of events (to me anyway) YT are warranty replacing the main frame although I'm quite hurt that they described other bits of the bike as "quite worn out" but I've agreed to let them sort the other bits out as there was nothing in their list that I couldn't look at and say "yup, I was gonna have to sort that out soon"
Result, yay!

 

[Beaker2135]

Result

 

[baldiebenty]

Indeed, apparently they've agreed because the inner sleeve of the pivot has detached from the frame.
Unfortunately, you have to pull at least one bearing out to check that but if possible anyone with a similar age decoy (2020) might find it worthwhile checking theirs.

 

[Joelowden]

Just to add to this, if anyone has a similar problem with turning bearings in the frame I've had good success with Loctite 660. This is a retaining compound recommended by PYGA bikes when I had a similar problem.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Indeed, apparently they've agreed because the inner sleeve of the pivot has detached from the frame.
Unfortunately, you have to pull at least one bearing out to check that but if possible anyone with a similar age decoy (2020) might find it worthwhile checking theirs.

Right on! Just saw the thread. Good info. I was figuring they'd help out. Ive found YT very helpful and super ez to correspond with

 

[baldiebenty]

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
YT have been back in touch and they've got the new frame BUT they now say they found cracks in the battery & mounting plates (which they have sent photos of and it doesn't look great) BUT they are currently saying I have to buy a new battery.
Now, I'm on the list for the big battery so I do not want to have to pay out 500 quid for a small one on top of 500 quid for service work being done.
They've said they think it's from the bike being used with the battery loose, partly because I had tape on the upper portion of the battery, this was there to block the gaps around the battery to prevent water getting in as I had tried some stick on foam but the bike wouldn't then start. I had had problems with the bike not starting and had to faff with the battery positioning for a while to make it work, if the battery had been loose it just wouldn't have run
Apparently they're so shocking at getting the big batteries through that I will be waiting until the end of the year (estimated )

 

[Dirtnvert]

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
YT have been back in touch and they've got the new frame BUT they now say they found cracks in the battery & mounting plates (which they have sent photos of and it doesn't look great) BUT they are currently saying I have to buy a new battery.
Now, I'm on the list for the big battery so I do not want to have to pay out 500 quid for a small one on top of 500 quid for service work being done.
They've said they think it's from the bike being used with the battery loose, partly because I had tape on the upper portion of the battery, this was there to block the gaps around the battery to prevent water getting in as I had tried some stick on foam but the bike wouldn't then start. I had had problems with the bike not starting and had to faff with the battery positioning for a while to make it work, if the battery had been loose it just wouldn't have run
Apparently they're so shocking at getting the big batteries through that I will be waiting until the end of the year (estimated )

Im not sure how someone could ride it with a loose battery. Did you explain that it was never loose and your adjustment care and tape to prevent water ingress? Maybe they saw that the battery had been moved in the bracket and assumed it was loose rather thsn you making the adjustment for a better connection. I thought about getting the 720w but lately im leaning toward having 2 x 540w set up. Saves a bit of weight for most of my days with just the 540 and its a better price. 2 x 540 isnt much more than a 720. Maybe they can cut you a deal on 2 x 540 after your adjustment explaination.
Also at 500 for labour i'd just do it myself

 

[baldiebenty]

Good point about the 2 batteries... That's worth thinking about 1Kw rather than 720 and I can get the 2nd later.
Yeah, I have explained about the tape but the usual support guy is away I think so they're being a bit slower responding.
The 500 included parts, eg. Cassette, chain ring, new shaft for rear shock & service, wheel bearings etc.
I'm not complaining about that bit as I went through their list and most of it I already knew I would have to do in the near-ish future anyway, I figured might as well get it done while they have the bike.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Good point about the 2 batteries... That's worth thinking about 1Kw rather than 720 and I can get the 2nd later.
Yeah, I have explained about the tape but the usual support guy is away I think so they're being a bit slower responding.
The 500 included parts, eg. Cassette, chain ring, new shaft for rear shock & service, wheel bearings etc.
I'm not complaining about that bit as I went through their list and most of it I already knew I would have to do in the near-ish future anyway, I figured might as well get it done while they have the bike.

Oh, thats a great deal for all those parts and the labour. Plus you're getting a new main frame. Good luck with the battery

 

[wenna]

I always use loctite on the battery bolts. If the battery is allowed movement the plastic mounts will likely crack eventually.

 

[baldiebenty]

Just had a reply from them, they won't send me the old battery as it's a safety risk, which I'm a bit sulky about as it is mine after all.
Apparently the bolts can feel tight with an Allen key but still allow some movement if not tightened to the correct torque with a torque wrench.
Now, I'm pretty sure I did them up to higher than the stated torque but I admit after a few months I stopped using a torque wrench and just did them up until they were tight enough to have some concern about rounding out the bolts

 

[Dirtnvert]

Well it is what it is. Newer frame, than yours wouldve been without a warrantee issue, and newer battery, than your used battery with whatever degradation it had , for 500. That should add a few yrs of riding to your decoy and I guess piece of mind has a price and its 500quid in this case, or 500 plus tourque wrench price

 

[baldiebenty]

I've got at least 3 torque wrenches all the way up to a big beastie for use on a car. It never felt like the recommended torque was tight enough, let's just say I was never shy of cranking those bolts down.
It's not like I or anyone can prove that the fault lies in the manufacturing/design. Or indeed even if you do so that you DID use a torque wrench. Thinking about it the design does make it rather susceptible to this sort of problem as the battery is hanging.
Has anyone else had similar issues?

 

[Chrysaor]

The 720wh range is nice but the handling is much better with the 540wh. I found the front really heavy with the former

 

[baldiebenty]

Yeah, I'm kind of thinking about sucking it up on a new 540 and then maybe get a 2nd later. Forget about the 720, I could always just organise myself to head back to the car and swap over

 

[Dirtnvert]

I rarely take my battery out. Whsn i instsll it i just crank it tight. Ive never used a torque wrench. Its never been loose anytime i go to take it out. After almost 6 yrs maybe i should check it. I wouldnt think that issue should happen

 

[baldiebenty]

I used to take mine out to charge after every ride, I always thought of it as being a theft deterrent. Then I started getting problems starting the bike up (after about 2 or 3 years) I think the terminals on the battery had worn and I had to get it in a particular position before it'd work. At that point I clamped it in tight and left it, I hadn't had another start up problem since.
YT said it could feel tight but still have enough movement to cause the cracking so, yeah. It might be worth checking yours.
Does strike me as a bit of a design flaw though.

 

[divit]

Looking at post about YT emtb, potentially looking at a core 5, if Canyon dont replace battery or buy the bike back. Had a yt capra, had no issues with it, whats the overall opinion of the emtbs from yt, good, bad , indifferent?

 

[baldiebenty]

I still love mine, I was gutted when I thought I might have to replace it.
Now she's back and as good as new
Although the paintwork on the replacement frame isn't as good, it's already chipped in a couple of little spots so invisiframe might be in order which I never bothered with before.