S-Works Levo or X01 AXS Bullit

[DJ57UMP]

Fairly simple quesiton. Both bikes are about £11,500 after negotiations.

Levo has bigger battery.
Levo is ready to ride - I'd want to change the post on the Bullit.
Levo implies you're an Audi driver and I'm not.
If you were to cut me in half I'd have a SC logo running through me so Specialized is a tough move...

Thoughts?

 

[Doomanic]

Brose motor > Shimano motor and, more importantly, Spesh warranty > Shimano warranty.

 

[DJ57UMP]

Brose motor > Shimano motor and, more importantly, Spesh warranty > Shimano warranty.

I can accept the idea that the Brose Motor might be better than the Shimano but in my experience, the warranty from Shimano was spot on - they swapped out my motor without a quibble.

And whilst I know Berkshire Turbo do a 2 hour turnaround on the motor to the best of my knowledge these are the only guys that do - so I kind of have to disregard that and think I'd be supported by Specialized and their stores tend to pe a little poor in my experience.

 

[Mteam]

From those two - the Levo - just because the motor is better (more powerful and quieter) and battery is larger - but with no overall weight penalty compared to the bullit.

As an aside - I had a ride on a mates 2022 turbo levo expert the other week, it was nice, the motor is v quiet , but not as strong as the bosch cx4 motor. It rode nicely enough, but IMO not so much better than other much cheaper bikes to justify the additional costs.

 

[DJ57UMP]

From those two - the Levo - just because the motor is better (more powerful and quieter) and battery is larger - but with no overall weight penalty compared to the bullit.

As an aside - I had a ride on a mates 2022 turbo levo expert the other week, it was nice, the motor is v quiet , but not as strong as the bosch cx4 motor. It rode nicely enough, but IMO not so much better than other much cheaper bikes to justify the additional costs.

The additional cost is pure vanity on my part - 100% agree there are just as good rides for half the price.

 

[Dave_B]

LEVO !

 

[Dave_B]

Bigger, Better, Faster, Stronger

 

[Dave_B]

Berkshire is only a few hours away Dave, so you get a new motor on the same day, NOT the case with Shimano as we both well know.

Adjustable geo on the levo. Can go to 170mm
bigger battery
better battery tech (battery condition remains 100% after loads of charge cycles, NOT the case for Shimano)
quiet(er) ride
better tech integration
no need for any screens hanging off the bars
just use your Garmin watch to track rides
Mission Control App is great and simple to use to tune modes
and IMHO, the rear suspension feels so much better than the Heckler (even with a rough tune after 2 rides it feels great)
FOX38 is very nice

 

[Dave_B]

all you need to do is change the wheels over to your Nextie i9's and you are golden.

 

[R120]

I don’t think that out in the real world having the Shimano or Brose motor makes any difference to your riding experience, but the larger Spesh battery and the systems more efficient use of the battery is the biggest differential between the two systems.

IMO the choice should be primarily based on which bike fundamentally hits the mark for the riding you do and the spec/geo you want from a bike.

if the bigger range offered by the Spesh would be of real benefit to you then that would probably sway my decision.

 

[DJ57UMP]

I don’t think that out in the real world having the Shimano or Brose motor makes any difference to your riding experience, but the larger Spesh battery and the systems more efficient use of the battery is the biggest differential between the two systems.

IMO the choice should be primarily based on which bike fundamentally hits the mark for the riding you do and the spec/geo you want from a bike.

if the bigger range offered by the Spesh would be of real benefit to you then that would probably sway my decision.

I've currently got a Heckler and Heckler MX - very different bikes. But what I wanted was a longer travel bike to compliment the mid-travel MX.

I started looking at the Levo because it's hard not to BUT I think I need to think about what I actually want and that's a mid-travel bike and a long travel - so that's the Heckler MX and Bullit I think.

So you are right - go for what you want/need

 

[Underblu]

I haven’t checked out an S-works but I preferred the feel of my Heckler MX-S over the Levo SLs I’ve tried. And I’m not talking about the motor difference but rather a tactile thing.

Also the Santa Cruz Heckler MX-S is around 45lbs which is considerably lighter than most other full power ebikes. No sure the weight of the Bullit vs the turbo Levo but that would be something to consider as well.

 

[MrSimmo]

Get both!

 

[JetSetDemo]

I have both! Well sort of I have a 2019 carbon expert Levo and a 2021 Bullet XT.

I had always wanted a SC and when the bullet came out I had it bad for one. I also had a gen 1 Levo not long after they came out and had the gen2 so did have some loyalty to Specialized, my last analog bike was a Camber 29.

I could not find a gen3 Levo when they came out which kind of made it easier to justify the switch to the bullet. So I got one in April.

there is no getting away from it the Brose and 700w totally wins over the EP8 and the 630w. The power, feel and most important the range are just all better. I see lots of posts talking about feel and natural response but honestly the motor and delivery just feels better to me on the Levo.

I had decided to sell my bullet and look for a gen 3 Levo however I e had a change of heart and realised that I can live with the powers delivery if only I could get more range, solution was get a second battery, that’s not been an easy task but now accomplished. Now I am happy.

well sort of, I still want the gen3 Levo but really don’t like the looks of the S works but like the Black expert. Im going to get rid of the 2019 Levo and pick up a Gen3 after Christmas is out of the way.

So have both of you Can or the Levo if you want powers and range or the bullet with a second battery and then you negate the range issue and it’s like a Santa Cruz!!!

 

[DJ57UMP]

I have both! Well sort of I have a 2019 carbon expert Levo and a 2021 Bullet XT.

I had always wanted a SC and when the bullet came out I had it bad for one. I also had a gen 1 Levo not long after they came out and had the gen2 so did have some loyalty to Specialized, my last analog bike was a Camber 29.

I could not find a gen3 Levo when they came out which kind of made it easier to justify the switch to the bullet. So I got one in April.

there is no getting away from it the Brose and 700w totally wins over the EP8 and the 630w. The power, feel and most important the range are just all better. I see lots of posts talking about feel and natural response but honestly the motor and delivery just feels better to me on the Levo.

I had decided to sell my bullet and look for a gen 3 Levo however I e had a change of heart and realised that I can live with the powers delivery if only I could get more range, solution was get a second battery, that’s not been an easy task but now accomplished. Now I am happy.

well sort of, I still want the gen3 Levo but really don’t like the looks of the S works but like the Black expert. Im going to get rid of the 2019 Levo and pick up a Gen3 after Christmas is out of the way.

So have both of you Can or the Levo if you want powers and range or the bullet with a second battery and then you negate the range issue and it’s like a Santa Cruz!!!

Also not sure I'm being fair to the bikes. I wanted the Bullit for the extra travel - so in fairness a better comparison might be Turbo Kenevo or Bullit.

But where I am is I'll keep my Heckler MX and get the Bullit.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Also not sure I'm being fair to the bikes. I wanted the Bullit for the extra travel - so in fairness a better comparison might be Turbo Kenevo or Bullit.

But where I am is I'll keep my Heckler MX and get the Bullit.

What about the Yeti? Maybe one to consider.

 

[DJ57UMP]

What about the Yeti? Maybe one to consider.

I really wanted not to like the look of the Yeti - then I watched your video and one or two others and was sold on it.

The problem is I really didn't like the spec for the money

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I really wanted not to like the look of the Yeti - then I watched your video and one or two others and was sold on it.

The problem is I really didn't like the spec for the money

Yeah I remember now you mentioning it It sure it a lot of cash. Is it that far off the Bullit in terms of spec/ pricing?

 

[DJ57UMP]

Yeah I remember now you mentioning it It sure it a lot of cash. Is it that far off the Bullit in terms of spec/ pricing?

Probably not to be honest. The list on the Bullit is £11.5k where the Yeti is £12. Then I think most would say the X01 AXS mech is higher spec than the XT. But the killer for me is you need to add another grand to the Yeti for the carbon wheels.

I just don't get a £12k bike with DT 1700 wheels - A DT350 hub and ally rims..? Just makes the bike look cheap to me

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

DT HXC Carbon 29" 1898g
DT EX1700 29" 1993g

Only 95g heavier between the DT HXC Carbon wheelset and the EX1700, I don't mind the 350 hub to be fair. But I haven't tried the SC wheel sets to compare.

Not trying to justify the cost at all here btw, 5 figures for bikes is a shit load of cash. I was curious as to the actual differences between the hybrid carbon wheels and the EX1700's

 

[DJ57UMP]

DT HXC Carbon 29" 1898g
DT EX1700 29" 1993g

Only 95g heavier between the DT HXC Carbon wheelset and the EX1700, I don't mind the 350 hub to be fair. But I haven't tried the SC wheel sets to compare.

Not trying to justify the cost at all here btw, 5 figures for bikes is a shit load of cash. I was curious as to the actual differences between the hybrid carbon wheels and the EX1700's

You're right about the cost - it is silly money and as already pointed out you don't get £5k to £7k worth more fun over a cheaper bike!

I've never ridden the HXC's. I have ridden the 1700's and wasn't a fan.

But at the same time wheel weight isn't really what I'm looking at when I go carbon. Being a bigger lad I want a stiff wheel... I can feel ally wheels flex under me when I stamp on the pedals - not sure that makes sense.

I get it could be in my head but every carbon wheelset I've had have felt more connected to the ground and accurate that the alloys they replaced. And I've played with everything from Chinese Nextie imports (love them) to Enve M730's and now the DH Reserves.

And for what it's worth the Nexties on my Heckler MX are probably stiffer than the SC Reserves on the Heckler - if you're interested

 

[R120]

It’s a shame they don’t sell the SCOR in the UK, I reckon the LT version would tick all your boxes with enough change to your preferred wheels etc.

22kg with 720 battery and EP8

New EMTB - SCOAR 4060Z

Looks interesting, a side brand out of BMC. 720wh battery, EP8, tow versions based off same frame 140/150mm and a 160/170. Prizing looks very competitive too https://www.scor-mtb.com/scor-mtb-bikes.html https://m.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-scor-4060.html

www.emtbforums.com

 

[mfa81]

You're right about the cost - it is silly money and as already pointed out you don't get £5k to £7k worth more fun over a cheaper bike!

I've never ridden the HXC's. I have ridden the 1700's and wasn't a fan.

But at the same time wheel weight isn't really what I'm looking at when I go carbon. Being a bigger lad I want a stiff wheel... I can feel ally wheels flex under me when I stamp on the pedals - not sure that makes sense.

I get it could be in my head but every carbon wheelset I've had have felt more connected to the ground and accurate that the alloys they replaced. And I've played with everything from Chinese Nextie imports (love them) to Enve M730's and now the DH Reserves.

And for what it's worth the Nexties on my Heckler MX are probably stiffer than the SC Reserves on the Heckler - if you're interested

One could say the shock as also cheaper on the SC, but other than that SC comes with carbon wheels, lifetime no questions asked warranty, axs drivetrain which would be more expensive to replace vs getting an axs dropped which it’s missing since it comes with a fox. The question is if there would be a big difference between mx or full 29” yeti. Anyway, for that price I’d like to see x01 axs drivetrain on the yeti, not so much carbon wheels since yeti for whatever reason decided to use exc instead of hxc and also I’d probably get something other than DT anyway, but the non axs drivetrain is kinda hard to swallow for the price.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Fairly simple quesiton. Both bikes are about £11,500 after negotiations.

Levo has bigger battery.
Levo is ready to ride - I'd want to change the post on the Bullit.
Levo implies you're an Audi driver and I'm not.
If you were to cut me in half I'd have a SC logo running through me so Specialized is a tough move...

Thoughts?

High Rock Ruti

First AXS my dropper is the best I've ever owned by some margin, however the derailleur is still upwards of $700 USD, I break one derailleur per bike per year, I just send the Shimano derailleur back no note no RMA they send a new derailleur back last one took 3 months.

I own the 2022 levo pro, lost the first motor at 600 miles, the motors are still shit, my 2016 Pivot Shuttle with E8000 and di2 with 3K miles runs and shifts better than any of the other 4 bikes I own. I'd live to have AXS shifting but too spendy for my abuse. The levo is the best riding bike I ever ridden. Specialized stands behind there bikes absolutely so I ride a spare and get a new motor under warranty, just the cost of participation.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Motoxfreak]

I always own at least one ebike and a backup. I had sold a bike and only had a 2020 Sworks which I LOVE. I thought a great back up would be to have a bit more suspension with the Bullit which got great reviews. Bought the XT coil build Bullit and rode it a few times. Did not like the way the motor responded, or the power it generated. The bike did also not seem as poppy as the Levo. The 2020 Sworks was head and shoulders above the Santa Cruz. I was so so disappointed and sold it within two days since ya cant take them back. did more research and decided on a 2022 3 gen Levo Expert. Set it up and rode it today. BEST DECISION ever! I absolutely loved it. It handles great and is nearly silent. It is even better than the Sworks. Got most of my parts swapped over and hit some twisties and it was almost as if I was glued to the ground. Went to the jumps and it just flies so balanced. I have owned all the other motors and by far this is the best one, even up against the Bosch which I had in my Trek Rail 9.7 and My Orbea FS Wild. Today when I was riding with a group, my friend who also owns a Bullit asked me what mode I was in and when I told him ECO, he was a bit disbelieving. Anyway, long story short, I had him ride my 2022 Levo Expert and he admitted also that the bike is much stronger than his and that the power comes on in such a natural way. The Bullit has a drag to it when you stop pedaling and then start again. Anyway, the point is that my not is big time for the Levo 2022 especially. You wont be disappointed.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

I always own at least one ebike and a backup. I had sold a bike and only had a 2020 Sworks which I LOVE. I thought a great back up would be to have a bit more suspension with the Bullit which got great reviews. Bought the XT coil build Bullit and rode it a few times. Did not like the way the motor responded, or the power it generated. The bike did also not seem as poppy as the Levo. The 2020 Sworks was head and shoulders above the Santa Cruz. I was so so disappointed and sold it within two days since ya cant take them back. did more research and decided on a 2022 3 gen Levo Expert. Set it up and rode it today. BEST DECISION ever! I absolutely loved it. It handles great and is nearly silent. It is even better than the Sworks. Got most of my parts swapped over and hit some twisties and it was almost as if I was glued to the ground. Went to the jumps and it just flies so balanced. I have owned all the other motors and by far this is the best one, even up against the Bosch which I had in my Trek Rail 9.7 and My Orbea FS Wild. Today when I was riding with a group, my friend who also owns a Bullit asked me what mode I was in and when I told him ECO, he was a bit disbelieving. Anyway, long story short, I had him ride my 2022 Levo Expert and he admitted also that the bike is much stronger than his and that the power comes on in such a natural way. The Bullit has a drag to it when you stop pedaling and then start again. Anyway, the point is that my not is big time for the Levo 2022 especially. You wont be disappointed.

High Rock Ruti

I have a rail 9.8 an Orbea fs team aqmf and the 22 levo pro. Great minds think alike. Recently had the Orbea rebuilt new bearings brakes drive train and suspension. The shop sent the Fox suspenders to Fox a move I highly recommend. Well the 36's were bent $600 to repair or $800 for 38's.... easy decision. The bike rides nice really nice. One day I took a friend from the bike shop riding I rode the Levo Pro he started on the Orbea at mid point we switched bikes, sorry to say we both preferred the Orbea. Now it's important to point out this was tight curving flow trail no rock no jumps just blast away trying not to clip the bar ends on trees. It was really eye opening to ride one right after the other, you should try it. So I've been riding the Orbea lately. Here's the trails in the National Seashore in Truro Massachusetts.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[GeorgesEBike]

I have both bikes and love them both. As an entire package both bikes are pretty close. I did swap the Fox Transfer for a AXS dropper on the Bullit and want to also swap out the Rockshox Shock for a Fox X2 which puts both bikes around the same price. The Brose motor does pull harder than the Shimano EP8 but I don't think by much. The Bullit is more capable than the Levo hands down. Both bikes have similar geometry and reach so really comfortable on both. The fit and finish is excellent on both bikes. I don't think you could go wrong picking either bike.