RIP Orbea WILD FS h20

[EnnisTheMenace]

Really happy I that I had all that ride wrap applied to my frame so it wouldn't get scratched!

 

[Jfive]

Holy cow! I hope you're alright. How did that happen? I don't recall ever seeing a seat tube break.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

Holy cow! I hope you're alright. How did that happen? I don't recall ever seeing a seat tube break.

Yeah I am fine thanks!
It looks like metal fatigue to me, it snapped going uphill thankfully, now let's see what Orbea say.

 

[Mikerb]

Yeah I am fine thanks!
It looks like metal fatigue to me, it snapped going uphill thankfully, now let's see what Orbea say.

its a tube join with a non existant weld..........that would worry me in terms of other welds on the bike.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

might have to get a rise and sell it when/if warranty comes through.

 

[InRustWeTrust]

well that sucks, how old is the bike?

I have a friend who broke the chain stay on his 3 week old rise and orbea did not accept the complaint.
ended up having to order a new chain stay from orbea and pay him self full price and change it himself

so dont expect to much help from orbea

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

14 months, have my mate who works at a dealer sending in pics for warranty to start of the process. Just sold my spare bike so feeling a little blue starting the season with no steed. I am worried if they will replace it and or if they have any stock to replace it with.

But it's a really odd fracture no signs of exterior impact or force etc.

 

[Mikerb]

14 months, have my mate who works at a dealer sending in pics for warranty to start of the process. Just sold my spare bike so feeling a little blue starting the season with no steed. I am worried if they will replace it and or if they have any stock to replace it with.

But it's a really odd fracture no signs of exterior impact or force etc.

I have been sceptical of the Orbea "flat/invisible" welds coming as I do from the school that judges the quality of the weld by the way it looks. There should be penetration of both faces being jointed without any undercut and sufficient volume of weld to ensure strength. Sure you can grind down the weld to make is smoother but the more material you remove the weaker the joint becomes...which somewhat defeats the object!
The picture of the separated joint here shows no sign of a weld at all. If a poor weld breaks it either cracks in the middle (not enough weld material added) or it cracks where it joins one section of the joint,,,due to undercutting the material. There is no sign of weld material at all on the failed joint...almost as though it has been soldered rather than welded!!

The front triangle mostly has to a bsorb compressive forces except at the BB where it also has to withstand torsional forces from the cranks. The seat tube on the Wild is used to transfer the rear triangle deflection to the shock absorber and takes the full force of that deflection if the shock bottoms out. Where the seat tube joins the BB arrangement therefore needs a very strong weld to withstand boththe force of the rear triangle deflection and torsional forces.

Sorry to add to your woes but this is more than a frame failure in my opinion. It is a design fault.

 

[Mteam]

Heres an image of that area of an aluminium model that I found on the web, They've smoothed off that weld pretty well, looks like they might take too much material off/or not have enough weld in that spot in the first place.

 

[Mikerb]

Heres an image of that area of an aluminium model that I found on the web, They've smoothed off that weld pretty well, looks like they might take too much material off/or not have enough weld in that spot in the first place.

View attachment 84887

form over function. The fillet weld above that area is a proper weld.....but not wide enough!

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

Good news They are sending a new frame.

Now all I need to figure out is should I but an Orbea Rise m 20 at 25% discountand sell the wild FS when the frame is swapped or just keep it.

I am really on the fence after trying my mates rise

 

[jbrown15]

Good news They are sending a new frame.

Now all I need to figure out is should I but an Orbea Rise m 20 at 25% discountand sell the wild FS when the frame is swapped or just keep it.

I am really on the fence after trying my mates rise

View attachment 84984

I had the same issue, but I stopped riding my bike as soon as I saw the crack in the frame at that same spot. Orbea let me upgrade my alloy frame to a full carbon for a very reasonable fee. That's what I would recommend you do, I have the Wild and my buddy has the Rise. I would still personally get the Wild. The carbon frame is also 3lbs lighter than the alloy frame and you can see where it's built stronger with more material on the carbon frame verse the alloy frame in the areas that that alloy frames have been failing.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

I had the same issue, but I stopped riding my bike as soon as I saw the crack in the frame at that same spot. Orbea let me upgrade my alloy frame to a full carbon for a very reasonable fee. That's what I would recommend you do, I have the Wild and my buddy has the Rise. I would still personally get the Wild. The carbon frame is also 3lbs lighter than the alloy frame and you can see where it's built stronger with more material on the carbon frame verse the alloy frame in the areas that that alloy frames have been failing.

Will get my bike dealer to ask them, I didn't notice any crack until... POP

 

[jbrown15]

Will get my bike dealer to ask them, I didn't notice any crack until... POP

word to the wise, I had another member upgrade his frame too and his dealer tried to make a profit off of the replacement frame to him.

For some reason some dealers feel the need to try to make money on the replacement upgrade from Orbea. You will have to pay labour to swap the frame as warranty doesn’t cover labour, but it’s still worth the upgrade in my honest opinion.

here’s my upgraded replacement frame all built up.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

word to the wise, I had another member upgrade his frame too and his dealer tried to make a profit off of the replacement frame to him.

For some reason some dealers feel the need to try to make money on the replacement upgrade from Orbea. You will have to pay labour to swap the frame as warranty doesn’t cover labour, but it’s still worth the upgrade in my honest opinion.

here’s my upgraded replacement frame all built up.

View attachment 84994 View attachment 84995 View attachment 84996

What an absolute sled that is! love it!

Yeah the dealer is a friend of mine so doubt he will try and do one over on me

As for labour...

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

No carbon upgrade available for me :/

 

[jbrown15]

No carbon upgrade available for me :/

Is that what your LBS is telling you or Orbea is telling you that? If it's your dealer telling you that I call BS, all they have to do is ask Orbea, there is zero reason for Orbea to say no.

If the dealer is the issue contact Orbea directly explaining that your frame has cracked and you'd like to upgrade to a full carbon.
FYI there's a Facebook page for Wild FS's and in the last two days two members have posted pictures of their allow frames completely snapped in two pieces just about the motor.

Full disclosure I work at the shop, when my frame cracked I used the live online chat with Orbea. Sent them a few pictures of the crack, they said that they'd send a complete replacement frame. I said could I upgrade to a full carbon and if yes what would the cost be, and they said no problem and told me what the cost was to upgrade. It was that simple, so unless Orbea is out of frames I can't see why they'd say no.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

Is that what your LBS is telling you or Orbea is telling you that? If it's your dealer telling you that I call BS, all they have to do is ask Orbea, there is zero reason for Orbea to say no.

If the dealer is the issue contact Orbea directly explaining that your frame has cracked and you'd like to upgrade to a full carbon.
FYI there's a Facebook page for Wild FS's and in the last two days two members have posted pictures of their allow frames completely snapped in two pieces just about the motor.

Full disclosure I work at the shop, when my frame cracked I used the live online chat with Orbea. Sent them a few pictures of the crack, they said that they'd send a complete replacement frame. I said could I upgrade to a full carbon and if yes what would the cost be, and they said no problem and told me what the cost was to upgrade. It was that simple, so unless Orbea is out of frames I can't see why they'd say no.

This is what my mate reported back to me

 

[Micheal Edwards]

The carbon frames are bomb proof. Shame the alloy one’s are faulty. Hope the new Rise H15 frame is strong as I’ve ordered one

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Good news They are sending a new frame.

Now all I need to figure out is should I but an Orbea Rise m 20 at 25% discountand sell the wild FS when the frame is swapped or just keep it.

I am really on the fence after trying my mates rise

View attachment 84984

High Rock Ruti

Buy the new Rise and you've already answered your own question about keeping a "spare" bike for just this scenario. I've got 4 e bikes and the 5th on the way, I've had two bikes out of commission at least twice, road the third bike. Bikes become un-ridable not just from breaking also from part shortages, waited a month on brake rotors and pads last year.

I'm really glad to hear that Orbea is standing behind there bike, at least this time.

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[1oldfart]

What was the weight of that Ebike?

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

about 26 kg for alloy hah :/

 

[Mikerb]

Its bad enough there breaking but a figure we will never get but would be intresting is what percentage of alloy frames are breaking in this spot compared to the amount sold
Are they all going to eventually break ? or just a bad few .

I pointed out earlier in the thread that I believe it is a design fault. The leverage of the rear suspension is anchored just a bove that tube join. A strong weld or better still additional frame members joining the BB area with that leverage point should be a ble to hold it but a bottom out on the suspension will exert a lot of force to pull the seat tube upwards away from the bb area. At the same time the BB area of the frame is subject to torsional stresses which could crack the weld there.
Just my opinion but I would not buy one!

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

Yes i read the threads it doesnt change my post

I have already bought one as have others so without being rude it really doesnt matter if you would or wouldnt buy one ,
Theres a weld there joining the seat tube to the BB area as with loads of other frames of different makes and models with the same shock location it should obviously as you said be of different design thicker more weld or whatever but it isnt .

I am in the process of contacting Orbea for some answers on the situation and also airing my concerns over personal injury if the failure should happen and cause such an event mid ride
I will post my replys from orbea here as im sure they will want personally injury claims falling at there feet over a product that may or may not be fit for purpose
In the mean time i will ride the bike as per usual and keep a very close eye on the area in question .

Good stuff, keep us posted

 

[jbrown15]

Just an update direct from orbea


Thank you for contacting Orbea, Paul!

Regarding to your concern about a possible frameset breakage in your Orbea Wild FS, I can see that you have a 2021 model.

Over the years, we have strengthened the frameset in order to avoid these breakages, and warranty claims statistics shows is working correctly. This is why we would recommend you to do not be worried about a possible breakage.

For the moment, our Wild FS carbon frameset is not for sale separately.

Best regards,



I have messaged them back saying I will keep all written correspondence with them just in case of any future problems with the frame or personal injury resulting from a frame failure.

Keep in mind that the pictures shown with the frames completely cracked don't happen overnight. If you inspect the frame after cleaning which is something that I recommend everyone one does, you could catch it before it cracked like some of the pictures posted.

If the frame is damaged you'll see a crack in the paint. It's not going to just snap during a ride out of no where. And now you know exactly where to inspect the frame.

It's unfortunate that it can happen, but all frames from all manufactures can and do break. I think it speaks more about the company and how they handle it. And in my experience Orbea was excellent to deal with on my warranted frame.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

They sent a full frame as replacement, good thing too since I just found a crack in the chain stay where the brake hose enters it on the old ones.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

Did you take a picture as a reference is always nice , and some where else to check twice now after it has had a beating

Here you go

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

I really hope all this is sorted on the 2022 model all though I might start looking for another bike as the 455 reach on the large runs a bit hot and cold for me.

 

[EnnisTheMenace]

Cheers
very helpful

Just checked mine it has a hairline crack in the same area
FFS .

Good thing you checked could be a in for a very bad time if they snap at high speed