Right to repair my motor?

[Marke]

*sigh* Is it compulsory to become a fucking drama queen upon purchase of an eBike? Or is it contagious and it's spreading from the Levo owners?

You're not being fucked over. A reconditioned motor will be built to the exact same spec as a new one. In fact, my recon motor has outlasted my original motor by some considerable margin. Will it last the winter? I neither know nor care. It's under warranty.


The vast majority of them will see nothing dirtier than a cycle lane. There are motors out there at many thousands of commuting miles that have never failed.
The usage that we put our bikes through is the exception, not the norm.

Now you know your motor is only IP54 are you going to continue to knowingly expose to conditions that exceed that rating? If so, you are guilty of contributory negligence and as such outside the warranty conditions.

*Sigh* not sure why you insist on defending the indefensible with no evidence to support your arguments. It feels like you are being contrarian for the sake of it.

They are not reconditioned unless you can prove it. A large number of bikes will see muddy conditions - that's why they are called mountain bikes. I don't consider riding an emtb offroad negligent.

I consider the fact that none of the manufacturers is willing to sell spares extremely unreasonable and have highlighted it as such. You are entitled to your opinion. If they sell spares we can collectively run our bikes indefinitely - if not it could well be very expensive/ impossible. I am highlighting this to make others aware of the situation, nothing more.

 

[Doomanic]

They are not reconditioned unless you can prove it.

I think you mean they they may not be reconditioned unless I can prove it which is unlikely as I doubt Bosch will advertise the fact. Just as you can't prove they they chuck them away, unless you've got photos of the Bosch Motor Mountain you'd like to share?

As for being contrary, this is a discussion forum. I have a different viewpoint to you, get over it.

 

[SquireRides]

I don't see how the desire to recycle and not throw-away motors can be reconciled with a desire to always get a brand new motor for warranty repairs...

A repair is a repair. I wouldn't assume all brand spanking new parts.

 

[Marke]

I think you mean they they may not be reconditioned unless I can prove it which is unlikely as I doubt Bosch will advertise the fact. Just as you can't prove they they chuck them away, unless you've got photos of the Bosch Motor Mountain you'd like to share?

As for being contrary, this is a discussion forum. I have a different viewpoint to you, get over it.

I would fight for your right to have a different view point - but all i want is some spares and a manual for my bicycle

 

[Norange]

Could be a number of things affecting this, based on my manufacturing experience.

Bike manufacturers looking to control the repair process. To me that makes sense if assembly is critical for IP rating. I can repair a Garmin, don't think they'd sell me parts and cct diagrams though.

Not enough demand for spares, none of us has any clue on actual failure rates or causes, apart from the odd trade member who couldn't share that info.

Not enough prep on the service side. This is where I hope things could improve, so more training and spares to distribution.

Remember that most are not competent in repairing this kind of equipment.

 

[SquireRides]

Question: Has anyone actually tried an out-of-warranty replacement/repair from Bosch?

EUR700 sounds steep, but that's a new motor. I wonder if in practice the response is you pay for labor/delivery and get a refurb unit. Or at least a refurb at substantially less than EUR700.

Are we worried about a theoretical situation thanks to a few bike shops who are warning that out-of-warranty *might* mean paying for a new motor?

 

[Bearing Man]

Can't find anything on the Bosch and Trek websites that says anything about refurbishment. I've heard/ read unsubstantiated comments but never seen any hard evidence either. If my new (no problems yet) motor fails within 2 years i'd like a new replacement one not a refurbished one. Also, if bosch are refurbishing them why can't they share they're how to guide and parts lists, why are they charging 700+ euros for what will sometimes be minor out of warranty repairs..... i reckon they're chucking them in the bin (happy to be proved wrong).

I have taken some older motors apart and they have had green pen over the top of the original blue marker pen used for quality control, showing the motor has either been totally checked twice or refurbished. Two of the internal bearings had different colour seals too. Again, I have never seen these coloured seals on un-touched motors.
You can also tell if the motor has been apart by the feel of the self threading screws that hold the right hand motor casing on, and the motors with double pen markings had much freer case screws.

 

[Marke]

I have taken some older motors apart and they have had green pen over the top of the original blue marker pen used for quality control, showing the motor has either been totally checked twice or refurbished. Two of the internal bearings had different colour seals too. Again, I have never seen these coloured seals on un-touched motors.
You can also tell if the motor has been apart by the feel of the self threading screws that hold the right hand motor casing on, and the motors with double pen markings had much freer case screws.

You learn something new every day, i stand corrected. Thanks for that.

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

At least in the electronics world “service spare” is synonymous for refurb. It is a serviceable part nothing says it must be new. If you get a hard drive or smartphone replaced under warranty it’s very likely to be a refurb in my experience unless it is less that 30 days old. Your used part failed and is being replaced with a like serviceable rebuilt part.

 

[Marke]

So it looks like bosch are refurbishing their motors but are unwilling to provide us the customer with the spares to do it ourselves. They must even have a procedures manuals to diagnose and fix common problems in order to train their staff.

Under these circumstances we end up paying 700+ euros (the cost of a refurbished motor), for even the most minor out of warranty repair. When they stop offering this generous out of warranty service our bikes become papeweights. I wouldnt be surprised if other manufacturers adopted a similar approach .

 

[SquireRides]

@Marke I don't think we have any evidence your nightmare scenario is reality. I'm honestly interested if anyone has been asked to pay EUR700 for a replacement motor in practice.

 

[Marke]

@Marke I don't think we have any evidence your nightmare scenario is reality. I'm honestly interested if anyone has been asked to pay EUR700 for a replacement motor in practice.

sources :
Performanceline bearings who has posted in this thread and has created a business repairing out of warranty motors.
Price list : https://rower.com.pl/download/bosh ebike.pdf
Google search : a very useful internet search engine will reveal numerous articles on this. try searching for "bosch ebike motor repair".
Local bike shop : ask them how much it costs to repair the motor out of warranty and don't get fobbed off.

I'd love for you to prove me wrong discover that all the manufacturers warranty the motors indefinately and repair them for free but i doubt it.

 

[Doomanic]

You’ve countered your own argument. Minor repairs are covered by Bearing Bloke, so you shouldn’t need to spend €700 for a trivial problem.
Electronics are a stumbling block, but I’m sure someone will come along and be able to refurb PCBs. In fact, I’m capable of doing so and have access to the right equipment but absolutely no interest in doing it at this time. I’ve turned a hobby into a business before and it ruined the hobby for me. Never again.

 

[SquireRides]

Understood.... but for all the worry about after-warranty repairs, has anyone been charged EUR700 for a replacement due to wear and tear like the bearing?

Sure, there's a price list. And if you destroy your motor in a bash or drop in in a lake, your LBS is going to charge you that much for parts.

But I'm still not sure anyone's been charged EUR700 for a refurbed motor because the bearing started grinding.

@BearingMan probably knows...

 

[Marke]

Understood.... but for all the worry about after-warranty repairs, has anyone been charged EUR700 for a replacement due to wear and tear like the bearing?

Sure, there's a price list. And if you destroy your motor in a bash or drop in in a lake, your LBS is going to charge you that much for parts.

But I'm still not sure anyone's been charged EUR700 for a refurbed motor because the bearing started grinding.

@BearingMan probably knows...

Have a google

 

[SquireRides]

Have a google

Honestly, I have! Just now and quite often when I was worried about my CX failing after 1200 miles. All I can find is F.U.D.

Let's not go around in circles, because I do understand the pain. I'd rather it was LBS or home-serviceable. I'd rather Bosch were clear if they do have a post-warranty refurb replacement plan for less than list price of a new motor.

But, I've decided I'm not going to lose sleep about it unless I hear of actual real people who have actually really been stiffed by Bosch for a post-warranty replacement due to something as trivial as a bearing...

 

[LawmanMtb]

Saving this thread for future reference

 

[Bearing Man]

Understood.... but for all the worry about after-warranty repairs, has anyone been charged EUR700 for a replacement due to wear and tear like the bearing?

Sure, there's a price list. And if you destroy your motor in a bash or drop in in a lake, your LBS is going to charge you that much for parts.

But I'm still not sure anyone's been charged EUR700 for a refurbed motor because the bearing started grinding.

@BearingMan probably knows...

Bosch would have a real problem doing what you ask any cheaper than 500 to 700 Pounds/Euros.
If a motor fails outside of warranty, the majority of LBS's don't have the parts, equipment, tooling or knowledge to repair these motors. (I am not saying they can't, I am saying, they are not currently geared up for this).
So, the motor has to go back, either to Bosch or Magura for a service exchange.
In order for a company to offer a service exchange they must ensure the replacement motor is 100% fit for service.
Looking at the quality and quantity of parts inside a Bosch motor that would require replacing (Even at the prices Bosch pay for their parts!), I am personally amazed that the motors are as cheap as they are!
Anyway, in answer to the original question: Customers generally tell me that they were asked to pay around £500 for a "new" (service replacement) motor, plus labour to remove and refit.

 

[sparkyveg]

As the weather worsens i find myself wondering when (not if) the motor on my beloved trek powerfly will fail. I reckon most mechanical things fail eventually.

My next thought is how outrageous it is that none of the motor manufacturers sell spare parts for their motors. I can buy spares for all manner of electical gizmos - why not my motor? Why will i be forced to buy a whole new motor at 700+ euros or go to a 3rd party who can repair some of the faults?

The ability to buy spares for my motor and work on it when it fails will have a strong influence on my next ebike purchase.

What does everyone else think?

you can get bearings for most motors from performanceline bearings

 

[ccrdave]

I’ve turned a hobby into a business before and it ruined the hobby for me. Never again.

Oh Aint that the truth!!!

 

[Bearing Man]

Just so you know guys, performancelinebearings.com have come a long way in the last year. Apart from just bearings, we now have a comprehensive stock of new and used parts, motors, ancillaries etc. Our new website will be coming soon, but if you need anything for a Bosch motor, sensors, gears, crankshafts, motor cases or a whole motor etc. We probably have it. Our repair service also incorporates all the lessons we have learnt on how things should be done to extract the optimum efficiency and longevity from these motors. On the electronics side, we can now repair dead batteries (not burnt out or water filled!) and we have a prototype circuit board that is bluetooth controlled and open source. Watch this space! And thank you all for your support

 

[ChrisB NZ]

Just so you know guys, performancelinebearings.com have come a long way in the last year. Apart from just bearings, we now have a comprehensive stock of new and used parts, motors, ancillaries etc. Our new website will be coming soon, but if you need anything for a Bosch motor, sensors, gears, crankshafts, motor cases or a whole motor etc. We probably have it. Our repair service also incorporates all the lessons we have learnt on how things should be done to extract the optimum efficiency and longevity from these motors. On the electronics side, we can now repair dead batteries (not burnt out or water filled!) and we have a prototype circuit board that is bluetooth controlled and open source. Watch this space! And thank you all for your support

Nice. Any plans to do the same for Shimano motors?

 

[Chieftain]

Can't find anything on the Bosch and Trek websites that says anything about refurbishment. I've heard/ read unsubstantiated comments but never seen any hard evidence either. If my new (no problems yet) motor fails within 2 years i'd like a new replacement one not a refurbished one. Also, if bosch are refurbishing them why can't they share they're how to guide and parts lists, why are they charging 700+ euros for what will sometimes be minor out of warranty repairs..... i reckon they're chucking them in the bin (happy to be proved wrong).

I think that manufactures have to have a remanufacturing program in order to get approved to sell there equipment, I know that car manu have too and it’s a percentage of the vehicle parts. Also most are held to producing spare parts for ten years.

 

[Bearing Man]

Nice. Any plans to do the same for Shimano motors?

Yes, we will be starting the Shimano later this year.

 

[33red]

In Quebec it looks like no shop can touch a motor. I was talking with the manager and he said his training was, unbolt, ship. If you have good consumer protection i guess you could build a case. Sending a registered letter asking what you want and if they refuse sue them. Lots of assles for a maybe result. I heard the same about Shimano and Giant(Yamaha). How nany kms do you have?

 

[Gary]

Yes, we will be starting the Shimano later this year.

Brilliant news.
Wish you well with your plans.
I think i may well become one of your most regular customers

 

[Tribey]

Yes, we will be starting the Shimano later this year.

Good man.

Fantastic business opportunity for a quickly growing market. Good luck to you.

 

[Russell]

Good man. Will you be able to delete the display or maybe even make different ultra minimalist (battery only) display?

 

[Beezerk]

Just so you know guys, performancelinebearings.com have come a long way in the last year. Apart from just bearings, we now have a comprehensive stock of new and used parts, motors, ancillaries etc. Our new website will be coming soon, but if you need anything for a Bosch motor, sensors, gears, crankshafts, motor cases or a whole motor etc. We probably have it. Our repair service also incorporates all the lessons we have learnt on how things should be done to extract the optimum efficiency and longevity from these motors. On the electronics side, we can now repair dead batteries (not burnt out or water filled!) and we have a prototype circuit board that is bluetooth controlled and open source. Watch this space! And thank you all for your support

Excellent stuff, I was thinking the other day there seems to be a gap in the market for electric bike spares and repairs, specially given how popular they will be in the future.
Hope it all works out well mate ?