Right to repair my motor?

[Marke]

As the weather worsens i find myself wondering when (not if) the motor on my beloved trek powerfly will fail. I reckon most mechanical things fail eventually.

My next thought is how outrageous it is that none of the motor manufacturers sell spare parts for their motors. I can buy spares for all manner of electical gizmos - why not my motor? Why will i be forced to buy a whole new motor at 700+ euros or go to a 3rd party who can repair some of the faults?

The ability to buy spares for my motor and work on it when it fails will have a strong influence on my next ebike purchase.

What does everyone else think?

 

[R120]

I might be wrong, but i think Bosch motors are actually the ones which are easiest to get parts for, and also repairable by a good shop, mainly because they have been around in one form or another for a while.

We are seeing the slow but steady growth of 3rd part specialists in motor work, e.g @Bearing Man who is a member on here and knows the motor inside and out

 

[Marke]

I am almost certain you are wrong. I have seen no evidence of any manufacturer supplying spares for their motor. A few coulda shoulda mights but no hard evidence. The third parties only do bearing replacement which are not sourced from the manufacturers.

 

[Bearing Man]

I might be wrong, but i think Bosch motors are actually the ones which are easiest to get parts for, and also repairable by a good shop, mainly because they have been around in one form or another for a while.

We are seeing the slow but steady growth of 3rd part specialists in motor work, e.g @Bearing Man who is a member on here and knows the motor inside and out

I have to agree with Marke, I think that if you are capable, you should be able to repair things if you want. And he is also correct in the fact that no motor parts are available from manufacturers, especially Bosch. That is why we started Performance Line Bearings in the first place

 

[R120]

Ahh my bad - i didn't mean get the parts consumer direct, but to shops. I was under the impression that an authorised bosch dealer can undertake repairs, whereas with Shimano/Brose if something goes wrong they pretty much just swap out the motor.

 

[R120]

And totally agree that its very frustrating more elements are consumer serviceable

 

[Doomanic]

The ability to buy spares for my motor and work on it when it fails will have a strong influence on my next ebike purchase.

You'll be going back to clockwork in that case.
The Bosch Warranty is a rolling 2 years; it resets after each claim so unless you are very unlucky you'll never need to pay for a repair anyway.

 

[Bearing Man]

You'll be going back to clockwork in that case.
The Bosch Warranty is a rolling 2 years; it resets after each claim so unless you are very unlucky you'll never need to pay for a repair anyway.

Is it not an initial 2 year warranty and then 12 months on any replacement parts? That is what I am led to believe?

 

[Chez]

Recently noticed bearing rumble on my Bosch motor , I had new motor fitted feb 2017 and enquired at dealers if I could have new motor on rolling warranty , they replaced the motor in 3 days and charged me labour and postage ? didn’t mind the cost ,great service

 

[Marke]

You'll be going back to clockwork in that case.
The Bosch Warranty is a rolling 2 years; it resets after each claim so unless you are very unlucky you'll never need to pay for a repair anyway.

I think its a very poor state of affairs that i need to hope my motor never lasts more than 2 years.

 

[steve_sordy]

If what I read is correct, Bosch replace the motors without much of a problem. From a consumer viewpoint that is great, but why do they do it? My view is that they want the whole motor back so they can completely understand the modes of failure. They do this so that they can build a better motor for this new market called eBike. I am a total newbie to eBikes, so new that I don't even have one yet (about to though - one test ride away), but I've read a lot and talked a lot and while Bosch motors are common and have their big fans, they are overdue a relaunch.

 

[R120]

Its a bit of both, but fundamentally in this day and age its cheaper for a corporation to just replace a part than pay a mechanic for many hours work to try and fix it.

 

[Doomanic]

Is it not an initial 2 year warranty and then 12 months on any replacement parts? That is what I am led to believe?

Both dealers I have asked have said it's a rolling 2 years on Bosch motors and batteries.

 

[Doomanic]

Recently noticed bearing rumble on my Bosch motor , I had new motor fitted feb 2017 and enquired at dealers if I could have new motor on rolling warranty , they replaced the motor in 3 days and charged me labour and postage ? didn’t mind the cost ,great service

They shouldn't have charged anything; the dealers I've spoken to said Bosch covers the costs.

Out of interest, how much was it?

 

[Marke]

I am hoping my £5k+ bicycle is going to last at least a decade and there is a chance at some point i might like to sell it and it may have many owners. The warranty is not transferable (certainly for bosch). The 2 year warranty is rubbish.

I have a part number for every single minute part on my KTM dirtbike, I can download a parts list and a repair manual free as a pdf and purchase every part on line. KTM make a lot of money selling spares. Last year they sold 700,000 ebikes in Germany alone. IMHO the manufacturers should pull their fingers out.

 

[Marke]

If what I read is correct, Bosch replace the motors without much of a problem. From a consumer viewpoint that is great, but why do they do it? My view is that they want the whole motor back so they can completely understand the modes of failure. They do this so that they can build a better motor for this new market called eBike. I am a total newbie to eBikes, so new that I don't even have one yet (about to though - one test ride away), but I've read a lot and talked a lot and while Bosch motors are common and have their big fans, they are overdue a relaunch.

If it's older than 2 years they'll replace it no problem ....and charge you 700+ euros

 

[Slowroller]

I am hoping my £5k+ bicycle is going to last at least a decade

I think that is going to be a fantasy unless you never ride it. Proprietary batteries will be the biggest issue, followed by finding old motors or someone to rebuild them when they croak, fix software gremlins, what have you. Until they get old enough to be vintage and collectible, old bikes aren't worth much in todays market considering how fast it changes with all of the "standards", I think it will be even worse for ebikes.

My guess will be the bike company's solutions to a broken motor will be a warranty replacement, or out of warranty discount on one. Once you get past a certain age, they'll just shrug.

 

[Bearing Man]

I have now spoken to several people who have had new motors fitted. They all reported that they have been told 12 months warranty on their replacement motor. Bosch state on their website:
"Bosch grants the manufacturer a warranty for the entire system. Please ask your retailer about the conditions of the relevant manufacturer"
So this would look like it's up to the bike manufacturer what he wants to give you!!?? So, it maybe that some people are getting 12 months and some 24 months.
Is there a Bosch dealer reading this that can clarify this?

 

[R120]

The thing that actually interests me is when they bring out new motors will they fit in existing frames? Shimano has done this with the e7000 motor, in that it shares the mounts of the e8000 motor. If an when they bring out an e8000.2/e9000 i hope it can be retrofitted.

 

[Marke]

I think that is going to be a fantasy unless you never ride it. Proprietary batteries will be the biggest issue, followed by finding old motors or someone to rebuild them when they croak, fix software gremlins, what have you. Until they get old enough to be vintage and collectible, old bikes aren't worth much in todays market considering how fast it changes with all of the "standards", I think it will be even worse for ebikes.

My guess will be the bike company's solutions to a broken motor will be a warranty replacement, or out of warranty discount on one. Once you get past a certain age, they'll just shrug.

You might be right with less popular models but im hoping the sheer volumes the more popular manufacturers sell will force them to provide support. Bosch (for example) are selling 100,000's of units which could mean a very large number of angry customers. How would you feel if you received a shrug?

 

[Doomanic]

they have been told 12 months warranty on their replacement motor.

If the bike is less than 12 months old at failure (like mine was) that's less warranty than you get with from new, which they can't legally do. If they were told balance of existing warranty or 12 months, whichever is greater, it would be legal.

 

[Mabman]

Seems like the biggest problem are the bb bearings wearing out and there is a guy online that has video's and parts to solve that issue for the home mechanic.

Electrical issues generally are tracked to something relatively simple up to a new control board and quite frankly are out of the mental reach of most home mechanics skill set. It really helps to do some study on how eBike systems work I have found.

Personally I use motors that I can disassemble for maintenance issues. To date my only issues have been with bearings, axle ones in V1 and bb in my TSDZ2 mid drive. Both replaced with far superior quality bearings and I expect a much longer time between services.

 

[Marke]

Seems like the biggest problem are the bb bearings wearing out and there is a guy online that has video's and parts to solve that issue for the home mechanic.

Electrical issues generally are tracked to something relatively simple up to a new control board and quite frankly are out of the mental reach of most home mechanics skill set. It really helps to do some study on how eBike systems work I have found.

Personally I use motors that I can disassemble for maintenance issues. To date my only issues have been with bearings, axle ones in V1 and bb in my TSDZ2 mid drive. Both replaced with far superior quality bearings and I expect a much longer time between services.

If we had some kind of workshop repair manual like i have for my motorcycle i think itd be much easier. I think the third parties have done a great job given the complete lack of support we/ they receive from the manufacturers. If a electrical component fails (including circuit boards) it could be diagnosed and replaced. No need to replace the whole motor at great expense. Also its not exactly environmentally friendly to keep chucking these motors away without even attempting to repair them

 

[Doomanic]

They aren’t chucked away. Any replacement Bosch motor is a service exchange.

 

[Marke]

They aren’t chucked away. Any replacement Bosch motor is a service exchange.

Can't find anything on the Bosch and Trek websites that says anything about refurbishment. I've heard/ read unsubstantiated comments but never seen any hard evidence either. If my new (no problems yet) motor fails within 2 years i'd like a new replacement one not a refurbished one. Also, if bosch are refurbishing them why can't they share they're how to guide and parts lists, why are they charging 700+ euros for what will sometimes be minor out of warranty repairs..... i reckon they're chucking them in the bin (happy to be proved wrong).

 

[Doomanic]

HollandBikeShop used to offer service exchange motors but don't seem to any more. My google-fu has failed me at this point but as I'm off work I've got all day to keep looking.
I do know that my local Bosch Service Centre return all the fucked motors to Bosch.

If my new (no problems yet) motor fails within 2 years i'd like a new replacement one not a refurbished one.

So would I, but ultimately I'll take what I'm offered.

why can't they share they're how to guide and parts lists

Why should they? They don't even acknowledge there's a problem with dirt ingress due to the dodgy design which is why you see motors covered in crap being exchanged with no questions asked.

why are they charging 700+ euros for what will sometimes be minor out of warranty repairs

Because they can and because they don't want to acknowledge the dirt ingress issue.

Have you ever bought a starter motor or alternator for a car? They are service exchange too, but you'd be hard pressed to spot it by looking at them.

 

[Marke]

HollandBikeShop used to offer service exchange motors but don't seem to any more. My google-fu has failed me at this point but as I'm off work I've got all day to keep looking.
I do know that my local Bosch Service Centre return all the fucked motors to Bosch.

So would I, but ultimately I'll take what I'm offered.

Why should they? They don't even acknowledge there's a problem with dirt ingress due to the dodgy design which is why you see motors covered in crap being exchanged with no questions asked.

Because they can and because they don't want to acknowledge the dirt ingress issue.

Have you ever bought a starter motor or alternator for a car? They are service exchange too, but you'd be hard pressed to spot it by looking at them.

I don't take what I'm offered if I'm being f'd over. The motor manufactures cannot persist with this, last year 700,000 ebikes where sold in Germany alone. A very large number of these motors will eventually fail - as all things mechanical do.

Don't know about starter motors but maybe theyre not great analogy as they don't cost 700 euros and (perhaps) are less complicated. I still think they're chucking the failed motors in the bin

 

[SquireRides]

"Why should they? They don't even acknowledge there's a problem with dirt ingress due to the dodgy design which is why you see motors covered in crap being exchanged with no questions asked."

With a bit of digging I discovered the CX motor is only rated to IP54 level. This is pretty poor for a mountain bike. It means it is not rated to stop dust/sand ingress, and is sealed for only light water spray at certain angles to the motor!

Of course, in practice this just means stuff will get past the seal and therefore you need to keep the area well greased and maintained as the next line of defense. But yeah, what bugs me is that the bearing is so hard to replace. A low IP rating is acceptable if the solution is that I buy a modestly priced bearing every 18 months or so to replace it myself. I could live with that.

 

[Doomanic]

I don't take what I'm offered if I'm being f'd over.

*sigh* Is it compulsory to become a fucking drama queen upon purchase of an eBike? Or is it contagious and it's spreading from the Levo owners?

You're not being fucked over. A reconditioned motor will be built to the exact same spec as a new one. In fact, my recon motor has outlasted my original motor by some considerable margin. Will it last the winter? I neither know nor care. It's under warranty.

last year 700,000 ebikes where sold in Germany alone.

The vast majority of them will see nothing dirtier than a cycle lane. There are motors out there at many thousands of commuting miles that have never failed.
The usage that we put our bikes through is the exception, not the norm.

Now you know your motor is only IP54 are you going to continue to knowingly expose to conditions that exceed that rating? If so, you are guilty of contributory negligence and as such outside the warranty conditions.

 

[SquireRides]

IP54 tells me a I should STOP:
- Cycling through the ford at the bottom of my favorite trail
- Cleaning it with a hose

And START:
- Regularly checking the seal and changing the grease behind it
- Using a sponge and bucket