Reasonable Chain Wear?

[Blakey]

Hey gang,

I've had my new eBike for 2 months now. According to Strava I've done a smidge under 1000km on it. I've ridden it a lot and hard (for me, but I'm 52 so not crazy). Now the front chain and chain ring is broken.

The bike company who sold it to me took it in (I had to get it shipped, but that was free) and said:

We have checked over the bike and the chain is worn to 75% and also the chainring is worn. This is maintenance which is needed on the bike.

Replacement parts are:

Chainring - CW8045000 - £17.00 - On back order with Zyro till 23/12/2020
Chain - BE12TEP30 - £54.99


There will be a labour charge for doing the work.
LABOURREPLACECHAIN - £8.00
LABOURCHAINSETBB - £14.00

This would be £93.99 in total.

Are you happy to proceed please?

Well, I am not happy. Is this a reasonable amount of wear and tear on a bike which is new, but has done 1000km? I'm also not happy that they are saying the parts won't be there till Christmas which means no bike for about 2 months!

Thoughts on my next move?

Cheers!
Blakey

 

[Tim1023]

Hey gang,

I've had my new eBike for 2 months now. According to Strava I've done a smidge under 1000km on it. I've ridden it a lot and hard (for me, but I'm 52 so not crazy). Now the front chain and chain ring is broken.

The bike company who sold it to me took it in (I had to get it shipped, but that was free) and said:



Well, I am not happy. Is this a reasonable amount of wear and tear on a bike which is new, but has done 1000km? I'm also not happy that they are saying the parts won't be there till Christmas which means no bike for about 2 months!

Thoughts on my next move?

Cheers!
Blakey

My thoughts would be to source the ring and chain yourself and fit them at home if you feel up to it. Might also be cheaper. Google the parts to see if you could save some cash.
In terms of tools, you'd definitely need a chain breaker to get your new chain to the correct length. Getting the chain ring off on my Stumpjumper was pretty easy, if fiddly. Not sure what you'd need for your bike. If you name the bike, maybe someone could pitch in on that.

 

[Blakey]

Bike is a Cannondale Moterra 3 (full link in my Signature)

 

[Blakey]

Also, the bike had a terribly wobbly front chain ring (just fixed, not ridden since; see this post on another thread for video). Would you guys feel that would have contributed to the chain and chainring wear?

Thanks for any advice!
Blakey

 

[Pyr0]

I purchased a new chain and rear derailleur for my bike after about 5-600 km.

 

[Jamze]

Well, it wouldn't have helped if you did lots of miles with your chainring loose.

Given that they're waiting on the SRAM chainring anyway, I'd get it sent back (was it skipping?), check the chain wear and then sort yourself? They've quoted you for a £50 KMC e-bike chain. I've never felt the need to spend more than £15-20 on a chain.

 

[Blakey]

I purchased a new chain and rear derailleur for my bike after about 5-600 km.

Blimey that would be about once a month at my current usage! I hope that's not standard?

 

[Blakey]

Should any of this be covered under warranty, or are these things definitely "normal wear and tear" items?

 

[Jamze]

They're consumables unless there's an obvious manufacturing fault that you spot straight away. I get thousands of miles out of my drivetrains, so YMMV as they say.

 

[Blakey]

This is my first eMTB but I've had thousands and thousands of miles on previous bikes without ever replacing a chainring and very rarely having to replace a chain.

Is this just a case of the extra wear of an eMTB or have I been unlucky?

 

[Jamze]

Yes, an eMTB is putting more load on your transmission. But if you have some mechanical sympathy (don't shift under load), keep an eye on your chain wear and replace that early, you can usually increase the life of the chainrings and cassette.

The other approach is to just let it all wear out together and replace the whole lot in one go.

 

[Blakey]

Which seems to be what has happened to me. But I can't afford £100 every two months of riding...

 

[TheBikePilot]

Hey Bud,

1000km isn't beyond the realm of reasonable, drive trains wear way faster on an eBike. I get about the same out of mine. I'd change the cassette at the same time else when you put a new chain on it will slip like made under load. I changed my cassette out for a steel one which was a lot cheaper and more durable.

You may be able to source a front ring elsewhere. They are just relying on their main supplier and changing like for like. You don't need a £50 chain.

A base level 10 Speed Shimano Deore full set up including shifter, mech etc 10 speed is £250. 10 Speed seems to work better on an eBike as the chain is thicker and less gears to crunch.

 

[TheBikePilot]

Which seems to be what has happened to me. But I can't afford £100 every two months of riding...

That's a SRAM Eagle 12 speed on there. Expensive and will wear quickly. 12 Speed is a thin chain and you don't really need all those gears on an eBike. As others have mentioned you need to be super careful about shifting under load where it wasn't so critical on a normal bike..

 

[Blakey]

Worth asking my LBS if they can do the job and for what cost?

 

[TheBikePilot]

I would defo ask. There's no real difference between a £50 chain and a £15 one. You may need a hub adaptor to go to Shimano which may sting a bit from the outset. I think they are about £80.

All the XTR/Eagle stuff is about weight saving at significant extra cost. I've ridden so many drivetrains now that any performance increase on the more expensive systems is absolutely negligible and 'just for show'. I would go for an XT shifter without the gear indicator, some of the basic Deore ones you can't remove that. If your piling in the miles like you are, it makes no sense to have a blinged out system which will wear fast. I'm a big fan of Shimano over SRAM, but that's just me.

It would be a £250 initial investment but the cassette and chain will be max £45-60 next time round, and it should last a lot longer. Changing a cassette is easy, you just need a Cassette tool. Make sure you specify the hub brand your using Shimano or SRAM. Same with a chain, again all you need is a chain tool (about £4.99 off Amazon)

Alternatively, just get them to put a Steel cassette on (again you may need a hub adaptor) and cheap chain & a front ring. It doesn't need to be SRAM, just compatible if you stick with SRAM.

If they are worth their salt they will advise you, but don't get upsold into anything. Deore/XT are excellent. Eagle and XTR are for weight weenies and it's just not worth it on an eBike unless your trying to build a super light.

 

[Andrie]

I have an Orbea 12 speed and just changed my chain at 1000 miles not km. I started to check the chain at around 700 miles which wore 50% but I have not had any problem of skipping gears or shifting. At 1000 miles I had 75% and even though I had not experienced any problem I changed it anyway.
Now with the new chain (same chain as original, KMC E12) I’m experiencing shifting issues from time to time if I changed multiple gears at a time. I’m going to reminded the derailleur and see.

I ride about 80 miles a week give or take. I rinse my bike after every ride. I lived my chain after every other ride.

 

[TheBikePilot]

I have an Orbea 12 speed and just changed my chain at 1000 miles not km. I started to check the chain at around 700 miles which wore 50% but I have not had any problem of skipping gears or shifting. At 1000 miles I had 75% and even though I had not experienced any problem I changed it anyway.
Now with the new chain (same chain as original, KMC E12) I’m experiencing shifting issues from time to time if I changed multiple gears at a time. I’m going to reminded the derailleur and see.

I ride about 80 miles a week give or take. I rinse my bike after every ride. I lived my chain after every other ride.

Yeh sadly this is the issue with eBike Cassettes and Chains they tend to 'bond' and if you change the chain and not the cassette you will have shifting issues. If you haven't thrown the old chain away put it back on and just keep running it until you have shifting issues. If it ain't broke don't fix it..Some change the chain at about 200miles or so to prolong the cassette but then you just spend the money on new chains with the money your trying to save on the cassette.

The torque going through these systems is way beyond what they were designed for. Plus, we aren't all pro riders with silky shifting techniques.

Even with a snapped chain link I've replaced a link with a speedlink and had no issues until it started shifting like crap. Then just change the whole drivetrain. Throw the wear indicator away, it's for road bikes and to get you to buy another chain.

Also, if you bash the mech and the shifting goes out of alignment it will wear the Chain and Cassette fast.

Some on here report 3000miles plus on a single drive train but for most of us mere mortals 1000miles seems to be about the limit, I got about 1400m out of mine. About three times the torque is going through them on a unit designed really just for leg power. Sadly, the drivetrain on an eBike is as much a wearing part as Pads & Tyres...

 

[Jamze]

Did Rutland say why the chainring needed replacing? Perhaps it was damaged by the lock ring being loose rather than wear? <Edit> Ignore, I see it's not a one-piece chainring.

If it was me I'd get it back, see if it rides and shifts OK, and then plan your upgrades/downgrades ?

 

[Andrie]

Yeh sadly this is the issue with eBike Cassettes and Chains they tend to 'bond' and if you change the chain and not the cassette you will have shifting issues. If you haven't thrown the old chain away put it back on and just keep running it until you have shifting issues. If it ain't broke don't fix it..Some change the chain at about 200miles or so to prolong the cassette but then you just spend the money on new chains with the money your trying to save on the cassette.

The torque going through these systems is way beyond what they were designed for. Plus, we aren't all pro riders with silky shifting techniques.

Even with a snapped chain link I've replaced a link with a speedlink and had no issues until it started shifting like crap. Then just change the whole drivetrain. Throw the wear indicator away, it's for road bikes and to get you to buy another chain.

Also, if you bash the mech and the shifting goes out of alignment it will wear the Chain and Cassette fast.

Some on here report 3000miles plus on a single drive train but for most of us mere mortals 1000miles seems to be about the limit, I got about 1400m out of mine. About three times the torque is going through them on a unit designed really just for leg power. Sadly, the drivetrain on an eBike is as much a wearing part as Pads & Tyres...

Sadly I thrown away the old chain. I agree I shouldn’t touched it since it ain’t broken. I got suckered by GMBN tech saying to replace before broken. LOL

That being said I had to replace the cassette and derailleur hanger at 600 miles due to accident where one of the cog got bent.

 

[Gary]

A base level 10 Speed Shimano Deore full set up including shifter, mech etc 10 speed is £250

Or around half that if you're savy enough to shop around online and fit it yourself.
eg.
A 10 speed Deore shadow+ mech can be had for under £45. 10 speed Zee shifter £18, 10 speed deore 11-42 cassette £35, Sram 1110 chain £10, 104 4 bolt NW chainring £8

The torque going through these systems is way beyond what they were designed for.

sorry to be blunt but. No it isn't.
Especially when most Ebikers aren't exactly matching Cavendish in the peak power dept. Nevermind Chris Hoy.

The real drivetrain wear issue down is poor shifting and poor maintenance as is evedent from the OP
customers like this are all too common. Quick to complain and blame the manufacturer/Shop despite the issue stemming directly from them riding around shifting badly with a poorly maintained bike.

 

[TheBikePilot]

sorry to be blunt but. No it isn't.
Especially when most Ebikers aren't exactly matching Cavendish in the peak power dept. Nevermind Chris Hoy.

The real drivetrain wear issue down is poor shifting and poor maintenance as is evedent from the OP
customers like this are all too common. Quick to complain and blame the manufacturer/Shop despite the issue stemming directly from them riding around shifting badly with a poorly maintained bike.

I didn't want to say 'You must be shifting like crap' but a lot of people get away with that shifting far longer on a standard bike, it seems a lot of issues stem from people crunching through gears under load on a steep hill in turbo with the drivetrain pinging like crap..! Riding on the road during lockdown 1.0 really wore the drivetrain as I was manly using the lower gears. The motor accentuates the error and peoples expectation is it should last longer even if they are at fault to some degree, when before the wear was acceptable for the mileage/time on the bike. We are all riding farther and longer on an eBike as well.

How often do Cavendish and Hoy keep their drivetrains? I am not challenging you, I am just interested if you know. I know factory DH riders change their tyres every run, although they barely use their gears.

I think really it's about managing expectations. Your average rider will probably get circa 1000miles with sub standard shifting technique. Nobody ever gets much coaching on shifting technique, they treat it like they would their car..I have to admit, I fell into that category. I've since learnt my lesson..!

 

[Gary]

Riding on the road during lockdown 1.0 really wore the drivetrain as I was manly using the lower gears.

See if you'd fitted an 11-25 cassette and a short cage mech? you'd have gotten thousands more miles.
partly because you'd be spreading the wear much more evenly throughout the smaller sprockets rather than mainly using just 3 sprockets. And also because a short cage mech combined with a close ratio cassette allows the mech to be set-up with the top jockey wheel far closer to the sprockets creating far greater chain wrap per sprocket meaning chain slip happens far later. Shifts are also far more smooth.
Wide range cassettes really are pretty evil for longevity. I don't even use them on my normal bikes.
Consider a spare wheelset for commuting with a road cassette and slicks. and a chain that you specifically use for each and change it each time you switch wheelset. Once you're used to the procedure, it only takes a minute or two more to swap a chain and dial in B-tension when swapping a wheelset over

 

[Gary]

I think really it's about managing expectations. Your average rider will probably get circa 1000miles with sub standard shifting technique.

In that case I'm currently around 4 times greater than average.

buy you knew that, eh?

 

[TheBikePilot]

See if you'd fitted an 11-25 cassette and a short cage mech? you'd have gotten thousands more miles.
partly because you'd be spreading the wear much more evenly throughout the smaller sprockets rather than mainly using just 3 sprockets. And also because a short cage mech combined with a close ratio cassette allows the mech to be set-up with the top jockey wheel far closer to the sprockets creating far greater chain wrap per sprocket meaning chain slip happens far later. Shifts are also far more smooth.
Wide range cassettes really are pretty evil for longevity. I don't even use them on my normal bikes.
Consider a spare wheelset for commuting with a road cassette and slicks. and a chain that you specifically use for each and change it each time you switch wheelset. Once you're used to the procedure, it only takes a minute or two more to swap a chain and dial in B-tension when swapping a wheelset over

I don't really ride on the road, it was just that was all we were allowed to do in Lockdown 1.0, and I'm in London so it was the only thing to do in order to keep some form of sanity!! Chewed my drivetrain, but did smoke most cars on Oxford Street!

 

[TheBikePilot]

In that case I'm currently around 4 times greater than average.

buy you knew that, eh?

Tip of the hat to you Gary!! One day we'll get a ride in when we are up in God's country.....

 

[flash]

I'm currently at about 3500km on my current drivetrain, which is the one that came with the bike. My chain checker can't even measure it any more but the shifts are still perfect every time. All I do is clean and lube after each ride and give it a thorough clean once a month. I'll change the whole thing in one go. And I already have the parts. Not going to let a chain stop me for weeks. Always carry a spare set.

I think the big difference is we don't have to ride in the wet very often. And it's XT11 speed, not 12.

Gordon

 

[TheBikePilot]

I'm currently at about 3500km on my current drivetrain, which is the one that came with the bike. My chain checker can't even measure it any more but the shifts are still perfect every time. All I do is clean and lube after each ride and give it a thorough clean once a month. I'll change the whole thing in one go. And I already have the parts. Not going to let a chain stop me for weeks. Always carry a spare set.

I think the big difference is we don't have to ride in the wet very often. And it's XT11 speed, not 12.

Gordon

And you probably shift correctly. The UK is also an angle grinder to drivetrains in the winter..!!

 

[Blakey]

The real drivetrain wear issue down is poor shifting and poor maintenance as is evedent from the OP
customers like this are all too common. Quick to complain and blame the manufacturer/Shop despite the issue stemming directly from them riding around shifting badly with a poorly maintained bike.

Ouch!

Well, I am not going to claim to be a pro rider but I'd like to think I'm sensible enough to change gears when not under tension as much as possible. A lot of my riding is on flat forest trails, so yes I am using the top three cogs almost exclusively which I'm sure will wear them faster.

Just to clarify, my issue with the shop is simply that I bought the bike just a couple of months ago (admittedly I've ridden 900+km in that time) and now the chainring is gone. If you saw the video of how lose the chainring got - which I am sure is not "normal" under any circumstances, I am wondering if I'm in any sort of position to ask the shop to replace parts effectively under warranty because the wear may have been caused by the dodgy chainring.

I also clean and lube my chain after every ride, and give the bike a thorough clean and check over every few weeks. So, although I am no professional mechanic, I don't think my maintenance is that bad (though I am sure it could be better).

I'm definitely just a casual rider who only rides a few thousand km per year and this is my first eBike, so I've come here asking for help to understand what is "normal" and what is not so that I can use that to be more informed when dealing with the shop I bought from. I'm merely trying to be as well informed as possible so I make good choices.

Cheers
Blakey

 

[Zimmerframe]

A lot of my riding is on flat forest trails, so yes I am using the top three cogs almost exclusively which I'm sure will wear them faster.

If you're swapping things out, you could also look at changing the 34t chainring to a 36t (if it will fit on the bike) - it should help spread some of your loading over more of the cassette.

The higher gears do get hammered in comparison. I was worried about the same thing early on with my Kenevo and swapped out to a 36t.

If you think about it, for each full revolution of the chain then each tooth on say a 50 tooth gear will get used just over 2 times. Where as each tooth on the 11 tooth gear will get used about 11 times.