Answered RCT3 vs RC2

[steve_sordy]

I'm considering upgrading my Rockshox Revelation (inc Debonair air spring) with the Charger 2.1 damper.
My research shows that there are two options RCT3 and RC2.
More letters and numbers means better right?
That's what I thought initially, but I suspect that it may just mean "different".

They both have the Charger 2.1 and all the goodies that brings. They both have rebound damping. They differ in that the RC2 has independently adjustable LSC and HSC. The RCT3 has a three position LSC lever (open, pedal, firm) with further LSC damping adjustment in the open position. HSC is fixed on the RCT3.

I haven't managed to establish the price difference between the two in a convincing manner yet, my Google Fu is failing me. But so far it seems to be showing that the RC2 is more expensive than the RCT3. But is this because it's better or just in short supply? The Rockshox website does not distinguish between the forks fitted with them in price.

On the YT Capra I used to have, I had a Pike RCT3 (but without Debonair spring and it was a Motion Control damper, not Charger). I liked it but I hardly ever moved the 3 -position lever from the open position.

I like knobs and dials, I like tuning. I have never had an HSC dial to play with and I would like to fix that. But once I've played with it will it be a case of fit and forget? Either option seems to be a superb upgrade and I haven't found any adverse reviews, but which to choose?

 

[Doomanic]

Dampers - Fork Parts - TF Tuned

Dampers from TF Tuned.

www.tftuned.com

£225 for the RCT3, £333 for the RC2

Both will be a massive improvement over the MoCo damper. The RC2 should ultimately be better but will require more faffing about to get it set up just right.

 

[Doomanic]

The FAST RevUP is another option.

UP 3 Way Damper Upgrade

V2 FAST YariUP and RevUP 3 Way Compression Damper Upgrade

www.tftuned.com

It's about the same price as the RCT3 but offers more adjustment.
For some reason it's now POA, but I seem to remember it was about £250.

The Yari Up from Fast Suspension Offers a Fork Damper Upgrade

Their Yari Up is an upgraded compression damper assembly that simply drops into a Yari fork, replacing the standard damper to improve suspension performance without replacing the whole fork.

www.singletracks.com

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks guys, all replies helped the thought process. In the end I decided to go for the Charge 2.1 RCT3 and also so some new wiper seals. It would have been nice to play around with HSC, but I've never had it before and it was going to cost me another £108 for the privilege.

Along the way I discovered that the descriptions inside the two options you get to choose from on the TFT website are both wrong. This is why it took me so long to make a choice, I had to check both out. The first person I got through to at TFT via email was wrong, wrong and wrong again, sending me off in a time-wasting spiral of checking. After checking, I telephoned TFT again and got a different person who was very helpful and even started to correct the descriptions as we were talking. The downside of all this checking was that I missed the Fri noon deadline to get the upgrade kit tomorrow and it won't be until Wed now.

These two Rockshox web pages were pivotal. The first one allows you to enter your fork serial number and it not only tells you all you need to know about the fork, but gives you all possible upgrades available to fit that fork. By clicking different boxes it will also give you service kits, tuning advice and documents..

RockShox TrailHead

A suspension specialist, in your pocket.

trailhead.rockshox.com

Because there was a difference of opinion between me and TFT about which upgrade kit reference number was the correct one, I went to the "Rockshox - Spare Parts Catalog".

https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/rockshox_spc_-_rev_h_1.pdf

This is a 213 page index and damper upgrade charts are on pages 205-207.

 

[steve_sordy]

Rats!!! and double rats!!

I received a voice message from TF Tuned on Fri evening, to tell me that they had just sold the last Charger 2.1 and would not be back in stock until 8th July. If I had not been delayed by the first person at TFT that I contacted, it could have been me that had that last one!! Anyway I have to ring them on Tues to see if I want a refund or to hang on. Refund!

This morning I bought the Charger that I want from bike-components.de, for €235.79 inc p&p, which is about £211, so £19 cheaper for me.

The description on the bike-components.de web page is not good either, it was only because I knew exactly what Rockshox component number I needed, helpfully it was quoted in small print lower down the web page, that I was able to buy with confidence. Two week wait now.

 

[Tooks]

Rats!!! and double rats!!

I received a voice message from TF Tuned on Fri evening, to tell me that they had just sold the last Charger 2.1 and would not be back in stock until 8th July. If I had not been delayed by the first person at TFT that I contacted, it could have been me that had that last one!! Anyway I have to ring them on Tues to see if I want a refund or to hang on. Refund!

This morning I bought the Charger that I want from bike-components.de, for €235.79 inc p&p, which is about £211, so £19 cheaper for me.

The description on the bike-components.de web page is not good either, it was only because I knew exactly what Rockshox component number I needed, helpfully it was quoted in small print lower down the web page, that I was able to buy with confidence. Two week wait now.

That’s annoying!

I’ve had some great service from TFT, a set of Pikes they Push’d and re-sprung for me are still the best pair of forks I’ve ever owned, likewise a custom valved 5 way swinger shock they did for me is still going strong 10 years later.

I made an email enquiry recently, and like you I didn’t get a very complete answer first time, and had to go back asking again for a bit of clarification and wasn‘t left feeling full of confidence. It felt like a lot more work than it should have been just to try and get a pre-sale question answered, to the point where I abandoned my plan to purchase. A shame, but I guess staffing may be short, and they may be busy I suppose.

 

[Si1]

Hi Steve

I'll be interested to see how you get on with this, by way of installation, and your thoughts on any improvements.
I have the same bike as yourself and have been considering doing this exact upgrade!

 

[Mcharza]

Rats!!! and double rats!!

I received a voice message from TF Tuned on Fri evening, to tell me that they had just sold the last Charger 2.1 and would not be back in stock until 8th July. If I had not been delayed by the first person at TFT that I contacted, it could have been me that had that last one!! Anyway I have to ring them on Tues to see if I want a refund or to hang on. Refund!

This morning I bought the Charger that I want from bike-components.de, for €235.79 inc p&p, which is about £211, so £19 cheaper for me.

The description on the bike-components.de web page is not good either, it was only because I knew exactly what Rockshox component number I needed, helpfully it was quoted in small print lower down the web page, that I was able to buy with confidence. Two week wait now.

I have bought from bike-components some parts and their delivery time was not so quick. Hope you have faster

 

[steve_sordy]

I have bought from bike-components some parts and their delivery time was not so quick. Hope you have faster

Thanks and so do I. They offer "fast delivery" as standard, via DHL to the UK, which I thought meant a week at the most. But just as I was halfway through paying a yellow flash came up saying that due to Covid-19, deliveries could take an additional week. This is why I estimated two weeks.

 

[Spiff]

Hi Steve, did you notice big improvement with the 2.1 Charger. Do you have any regret over buying RCT3 instead the RC2? I have the same doubts as you regarding the cheaper RCT3 vs RC2

I a in the process of selecting it and I had the same problems to select the right upgrade kit, but finally I believe I sorted it out using the RS documentation. But as you already did the same I wanted to confirm with you. My Pike is:
Model ID: FS-PIKE-RC-B1
Model Name: Pike RC 29+

And I found the two upgdrade kits that you already found, and they still have still the same price difference:

00.4020.169.003 DAMPER UPGRADE KIT - CHARGER2.1 RCT3 CROWN (INCLUDES COMPLETE RIGHT SIDE INTERNALS) - PIKE 27.5"BOOST(A2/2017)/PIKE27.5"/29"(B1+/2018+)/REVELATION(A1+,35MM/2018+) Price around 180€

00.4020.169.005 DAMPER UPGRADE KIT - CHARGER2.1 RC2 CROWN HIGH SPEED, LOW SPEED (INCLUDES RIGHT SIDE INTERNALS) - PIKE 27.5"BOOST(A2/2017)/PIKE27.5"/29"(B1+/2018+)/REVELATION(A1+,35MM/2018+) Price around 280€

According the RS description, both are valid for my fork: 29"(B1+/2018+), so now I only have to decide RCT3 or RC2.

At the same time I will upgrade the DebonAir to the latest 00.4020.552.002 (only 37€) RockShox Debon Air C1 Upgrade Kit for 140mm PIKE B1+/Revelation A1+ (2018+)

 

[steve_sordy]

Hi @Spiff you sent me a private message and I answered in full.
Of which a summary is:

No regrets at buying the Charger 2.1 and no regrets either at going for the RCT3 instead of the RC2.
The set up took longer than I thought it would (my fault, nothing to do with the kit).
I needed a lot more compression damping when in "Open" than on any fork I've had before.

 

[Mikerb]

I did not understand that last comment Steve!!
Well done sorting through the maze of information on Rockshox forks!! I found the following ( cant remember where) which cleared up some confusion for me.
R= Rebound
C= Compression ( usually referring just to low speed compression)
T= Threshold...........essentially lockout but can be be over ridden by a big fork compression.

So RCT = the bladder damper with rebound, low speed compression and threshold settings.....mainly aimed at XC type disciplines.
RC= Rebound and low speed compression
RC2 = Rebound, low speed compression and high speed compression.

Compression and rebound govern the speed at which the fork compresses and returns respectively. So RC allows external adjustment of those criterea. Low Speed Compression is effective mostly in the initial phase of travel and has little or no effect beyond that. It is therefore a way to tune the fork and stop it over reacting to small bumps ( best set at soft to mid) and rolling terrain (best set mid to firm). External settings are however subject to how both compression and rebound have been set/tuned internally.
High Speed Compression is effective in scenarios where the fork encounters bigger hits and drops.

I have RC2 in my Lyric ultimate and have found for most of my gravity based forest trail riding the fork is best with HSC open and LSC 5/6.
For flow runs with jumps etc at a bike park, that would be far too compliant and be difficult to get air without a lot a pre compression so better settings would be HSC 2/3 ( it has 5 settings) LSC 12.

I have found both in forks I have used and with a mates bike/fork, that forks not supplied as Ebike forks are generally tuned lighter on compression and rebound and are far easier to set up. I think many E bike specific forks are over damped.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Mikerb Ref your "I did not understand that last comment Steve!! " in response to my statement that I needed a lot more compression damping when in "Open" than on any fork I've had before.

During testing of my initial set up of the Charger 2.1 RCT3 I was frustrated. The fork was performing much better than the previous Revelation RC with its Motion Control damper. But it wasn't better enough for what it cost me for the upgrade. I felt that there was more to get out of it. The damper has three settings Open, Pedal and Firm, with 18 clicks of LSC when in Open and 19 clicks of Rebound available at any time. I was doing the testing in Open and after the early win was becoming frustrated. As an experiment I put it in Pedal and straight away the fork felt smoother and more in control. So I thought that if Pedal has more LSC as standard, then why not increase the LSC in the Open setting? I took it to about 2 clicks away from full LSC and straight away it was better than when it was at the other end of its range.I didn't leave it there, but started reducing the LSC. I continued to adjust the LSC back and forth for a while, but I haven't touched it for a week or so now. I have lost track of exactly where it is, but it's about 12-14 clicks away from fully open out of 18. Previously, my LSC settings have been almost full open.

 

[Mikerb]

@Mikerb Ref your "I did not understand that last comment Steve!! " in response to my statement that I needed a lot more compression damping when in "Open" than on any fork I've had before.

During testing of my initial set up of the Charger 2.1 RCT3 I was frustrated. The fork was performing much better than the previous Revelation RC with its Motion Control damper. But it wasn't better enough for what it cost me for the upgrade. I felt that there was more to get out of it. The damper has three settings Open, Pedal and Firm, with 18 clicks of LSC when in Open and 19 clicks of Rebound available at any time. I was doing the testing in Open and after the early win was becoming frustrated. As an experiment I put it in Pedal and straight away the fork felt smoother and more in control. So I thought that if Pedal has more LSC as standard, then why not increase the LSC in the Open setting? I took it to about 2 clicks away from full LSC and straight away it was better than when it was at the other end of its range.I didn't leave it there, but started reducing the LSC. I continued to adjust the LSC back and forth for a while, but I haven't touched it for a week or so now. I have lost track of exactly where it is, but it's about 12-14 clicks away from fully open out of 18. Previously, my LSC settings have been almost full open.

Ah ok I understand. The terms are confusing because the LSC is actually adjusting the speed of the fork compression . I think what you may have experienced which I have also experienced is that adding more LSC actually makes the fork feel a little more linear in the first...say 50% of its travel. With the LSC fully open the fork can feel very plush initially but the ramp up into the mid stroke becomes more noticeable.