Rail (750Wh) Rail with System Controller won’t power on (was very wet)

[JC-1]

I have a Rail 9.8 Gen 4 with the Mini Remote and System Controller (i.e. no display).

On my last ride it got very wet and was then thoroughly washed. After washing, I noticed the bike wasn’t charging and wouldn’t power on. No lights on the System Controller and no response when pushing the power button.

There was a fair bit of water in the battery area around the connections, but it’s completely dry now and has also sat for another 24 hours with the battery out.

I’ve reset the battery by holding down the button for 10 seconds. Still nothing. I can’t see anything unplugged at the motor or the controller.

Is there anything more I can do to check or reset the system to get it powered on? I can take it to Trek, but would like to exhaust all possibilities first.

Thanks!

 

[JC-1]

I tried resetting the battery while it was in the bike. The bike then powered on and I was able to change modes with the remote. I didn't try riding it. In the app, I saw this message. Plugged in the charger and it wouldn't charge. Turned it off and now it wont turn on again.

 

[JP-NZ]

I have a Rail 9.8 Gen 4 with the Mini Remote and System Controller (i.e. no display).

On my last ride it got very wet and was then thoroughly washed. After washing, I noticed the bike wasn’t charging and wouldn’t power on. No lights on the System Controller and no response when pushing the power button.

There was a fair bit of water in the battery area around the connections, but it’s completely dry now and has also sat for another 24 hours with the battery out.

I’ve reset the battery by holding down the button for 10 seconds. Still nothing. I can’t see anything unplugged at the motor or the controller.

Is there anything more I can do to check or reset the system to get it powered on? I can take it to Trek, but would like to exhaust all possibilities first.

Thanks!

Hose washing is not recommended as a means of cleaning. Bucket and a sponge/rag are a much better option.

Sounds terminal, I'd take it back to the dealer

 

[bikeguy11]

I had a similar wet ride condition where this happened. Bike would power on but mini remote wouldn't change assist modes and red led was flashing. Thought it might be a replacement of the mini battery but after blowing out the remote with some compressed air the mini started working again. Next ride was fine. Being in the muddy, wet PNW the bike gets covered in mud but I always use a soft spray and warm, soapy water.

 

[JC-1]

I mean, if Trek tell me I can’t use a fucking hose on a muddy bicycle, they’ll be refunding me for it.

 

[irie]

I mean, if Trek tell me I can’t use a fucking hose on a muddy bicycle, they’ll be refunding me for it.

Same for all motor manufacturers, none make waterproof motors.

 

[JC-1]

Having a waterproof rating is not a requirement for the ability to handle hose washing.

 

[markloch]

I've always hose-washed my bike, but with no pressure/spray, I just let water roll over.

It's a shame they don't ruggedize emts motors.

 

[JC-1]

Trek claimed that the aftermarket bash guard blocked the drainage holes on the motor cover and allowed water to collected which caused the issue. The bash guard doesn’t even contact the engine cover and has corresponding holes for drainage or cooling. If I can stick my finger through, water drains fine.

They said that when they took the motor cover off, water spilled out. Prior to taking it in, I had completely cleaned the bike and removed the bash + cover and thoroughly dried and cleaned underneath. They’re either lying, or the water was stuck higher up and drained out later. Either way, they did nothing except some resets and it worked again. They returned the bike fully charged.

After getting it home, I found that it wasn’t charging. Connecting the charger to the frame port did nothing. No lights, no charging. Connecting it directly to the battery would illuminate the charging lights, but not actually charge. I was going to take it back, but it started charging eventually.

Not sure what is going on, but possibly a faulty charger is the issue. Maybe plugging it in while the bike still had some water in it, caused an issue with both the bike and the charger.

 

[Wilbur]

I’m always impressed by the number of people that seem to have absolute faith in IP ratings..

 

[Tony4wd]

I use a hose on my bike occasionally and carefully, avoiding electronics and bearings. I've previously caused rust in a lower headset bearing and shock trunion bearings by not being careful enough.
With the Bosch CX motor it's good to check that the crankshaft seals are properly greased and avoid spraying around that area.

 

[JC-1]

I’m always impressed by the number of people that seem to have absolute faith in IP ratings..

Is this somehow related to the thread? I don't know what the IP rating is or what it means in plain English.

 

[Paulquattro]

Is this somehow related to the thread? I don't know what the IP rating is or what it means in plain English.

To be fair it is related as far as water ingress is concerned

IP ratings and standards explained - Rainford Solutions

IP Ratings & Standards Explained Specialists in developing enclosure solutions What is an IP Rating? Ingress Protection The IP rating or IP code classifies the degree of protection provided by an enclosure for electrical equipment with a rated voltage not exceeding 72.5 kV. IP ratings are...

rainfordsolutions.com

 

[JC-1]

I understand what IP Rating means and of course the water resistance is related. I'm saying I don't know what the specific IP Rating of the Trek Rail is and didn't have 'faith' in that rating; absolute or otherwise. I just casually felt like washing a mountain bike with a hose is a reasonable thing to do.

 

[Stihldog]

There are some preventative measures that we can take that may extend the life of the motor or electrical system. Our motors are not waterproof, they are water resistant. Water ingress is more likely through the crank bearing but rarely through the electrical plugs on the motor. Some electrical connections allow water to get in…but it must allow water to get out. The gasket around the motor halves seems to work but in my opinion two more bolts, rather than just 4, might create a better seal.

I don’t know why I haven’t had any electrical or motor issues for the past 4 years. I abuse my Rail more than anyone I know. My Rail is usually washed after each ride (5-6 times a week) to remove trail debris. (Shower setting on the hose). Ride in all types of weather and all types of trail conditions and have completely submerged my bike (and myself) several times over the years.

Clearing trapped debris from the motor area can be done with water, compressed air or by removing the skid plate. There can also be a ‘nest’ of wires, cables and hydraulic hoses in the motor compartment which can trap debris and water. I’ve removed unnecessary wires and cables from this area. An AXS dropper and AXS derailer has helped clear up this rats-nest.

I’ve recently installed a bearing seal kit which also has specific Bosch grease. This can be done by your LBS or you with the right tools. It’s a fairly easy job once you’ve done it.

Dialectic grease is not necessary on any electrical connection. However, I do wipe a very small amount around the rubber seals of the motor plugs as an added protection.

My Kiox, controller or Purion has never failed. I only wipe these dry after a ride. But with constant use, or poor assembly, or engineering designs, they can fail. Hopefully your warranty is still active.

I’ve been lucky so far but so have others around me (9-11 Trek Rail’s and Powerfly’s). My day will come though.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

This is a bit like those threads where someone is complaining their frame squeaks. A few posts on we find they sprayed all the pivots with a degreaser and then pressure washed it.

I woulds avoid telling the manufacturer you didn't follow their warranty advice on cleaning with water/hose/jet, as you might find it a very expensive lesson.

I find it best just to leave the mud until dry, then brush the majority off. A wet towel, well wrung out, and wipe over the entire bike.

 

[Stihldog]

Wet mud on your bike might not go over to well while pushing your ride through the kitchen.

But that’s another good way to clean your bike

 

[Mikerb]

This is a bit like those threads where someone is complaining their frame squeaks. A few posts on we find they sprayed all the pivots with a degreaser and then pressure washed it.

I woulds avoid telling the manufacturer you didn't follow their warranty advice on cleaning with water/hose/jet, as you might find it a very expensive lesson.

I find it best just to leave the mud until dry, then brush the majority off. A wet towel, well wrung out, and wipe over the entire bike.

...thats how I clean the bike except I first remove both wheels and use a bike cleaner on the rims and tyres...leave for 10 mins and then wash off with a hose keeping the wheels vertical to a void any water going into the open hub ends. My bikes are kept indoors so clean tyres are main thing that has to be done. As long as the mud is brushed off the frame etc the bike is clean enough to bring indoors. I do a proper cleaning job and lube then the following day.........or the next!

 

[Mikerb]

The parts of an ebike most likely to suffer if a hose is used are the controller, mode selector, screen. Even top tube mounted controllers ( e.g. TCU,Mastermind, Bosch Smart,) are vulnerable. Internally routed cables mean there has to be entry/exit points in the frame...............there is no guarantee they will resist water ingress. Some frame designs ( e.g. Levo) that have cables xisting and re-entering the frame behind the shock can even act as conduits to allow water to run down to motor or battery connectors. Finally, pouring potentially gallons of cold water onto the bike via a hose can set up condensation within the frame. All things to be aware of and either protect or avoid!

 

[JC-1]

This is a bit like those threads where someone is complaining their frame squeaks. A few posts on we find they sprayed all the pivots with a degreaser and then pressure washed it.

I woulds avoid telling the manufacturer you didn't follow their warranty advice on cleaning with water/hose/jet, as you might find it a very expensive lesson.

I find it best just to leave the mud until dry, then brush the majority off. A wet towel, well wrung out, and wipe over the entire bike.

The local Trek dealer, Trek's online support contact, and the Trek website, all say that using a hose to wash their ebikes is fine.
You're being silly now, suggesting that I used a 'jet' and that I should hide the fact that I used 'water'. No water? Come on. I've been riding and maintaining mountain bikes for 20 years. Move along, buddy.

 

[JP-NZ]

@JC-1 what was the outcome after all this anyway?

Also your location under your name is listed as NZ but you've stated your actually in Australia right?

 

[JC-1]

@JC-1 what was the outcome after all this anyway?

Also your location under your name is listed as NZ but you've stated your actually in Australia right?

The bike works fine and the issue was a faulty charger. Back and forth between Aus and NZ.

 

[Ark]

Hose washing is not recommended as a means of cleaning. Bucket and a sponge/rag are a much better option.

Hand bump bottles are better than a bucket

 

[Stihldog]

The bike works fine and the issue was a faulty charger. Back and forth between Aus and NZ.

Oh man, lesson learned for some of us. Sometimes it’s the simple and obvious things.

I should have started with; “Was there a recent solar flare in your area which knocked out the power grid.”?

#overthinkingit

 

[Mikerb]

Oh man, lesson learned for some of us. Sometimes it’s the simple and obvious things.

I should have started with; “Was there a recent solar flare in your area which knocked out the power grid.”?

#overthinkingit

........yep it sounds like the charger was shorted out by plugging it in to the bike.............however, as you previously described, the bike would not switch on either. So there was a bike fault...probably a short circuit......and that also blew up the charger ( probably only a fuse). The most likely area for a short circuit on that bike is the main battery connector plug and the most likely way for water ingress will be the downtube "cover". Glad you got it sorted anyway.

 

[irie]

Oh man, lesson learned for some of us. Sometimes it’s the simple and obvious things.

I should have started with; “Was there a recent solar flare in your area which knocked out the power grid.”?

#overthinkingit

Oh, do you mean the sort of solar activity that causes global cloud cover to increase thereby heating the oceans, which are huge CO2 sinks, thus releasing CO2 stored in the oceans into the atmosphere?

Just asking

 

[Stihldog]

I was originally thinking that a butterfly passed gas off the coast of Africa and that may have caused the problem. But that’s a bit of a stretch.