Rail Mullet

[Doug Stampfer]

Good write up & I agree with a lot of what you experienced.

I've only had a few rides lately since mulleting but my initial impressions are that it def is the right move for me. It feels like a completely new bike, one that has really excellent features & other features that while aren't bad are different- ie the riding position with the mino link in high. It feels a lot more upright than the normal low position & a bit foreign however I'm sure I'll get used to it after a few rides & not worry about it. For those who ride motorcycles it feels a lot like riding a motard- more forward closer to the front wheel
I haven't changed the wheel size so the assistance levels have changed but how I'm not sure. I think someone with a better physics background should be able to explain. I'm interested if someone knows the speed difference between a 29 & 27.5 as I found the speedo was showing a high speed than expected while climbing.

I don't really ride fast on many flowy tracks so can't comment if there's any need to change from a 29 however it does turn in quicker on berms if correction is needed.
Where it shines is tight downhill corners. The bike just turns in so quickly now it feels playful & fun to throw around.
I haven't found it getting hung up an anything but have had a few more pedal strikes so it makes you a bit more aware of the terrain while climbing. I haven't managed to get to any of our local droppy tracks due to forest closure so can't comment on the arse buzz component however am confident it won't be anywhere as bad as the 29 for that.
Together with the new 223mm rotors, fork lower refresh & tune up I have got that new bike feeling back again where each ride was so good that I can't wait to ride it again.

 

[RolyNZ]

@Doug Stampfer Mate was it you that put me onto the PUSHYS RACEFACE Wheel deal in OZ?
Anyway if it was I love it thanks. I got the e-bike rated rear wheel, I think it just means 32 not 28 spokes and they are a little thicker. I set it up on a Maxxis Assegai 2.5" that I robbed off my poor pedal bike. I didn't adjust the wheel size on Kiox, I don't think it makes any difference unless the bike shop does it, TBH I don't think LBS will do in here in NZ but correct me if I am wrong.

So speed/distance is measuring wrong, Strava says 21.58km and the Bosch App says 27.14 so reading 25% faster/further than my phone GPS.

First ride it felt sweet, turns in quicker, definitely noticed the snappier feel when turning. I always felt my Rail had plenty of grip, I think it's better in the rear now, don't ask me how but I just feel more confident. Could be placebo... could be I just spent $450 so it has to be better...

So on my first Mullet outing, after a week of storms + rain, trails were in good nick considering, I was frothing to give it a good workout, and my strava tells me I got 3 top 10's which has never happened before and it's wet and slippery.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Awesome bro. Yeah I really like mine too but haven't managed to thrash it yet. Feels totally different aye? I don't strava as I go so slow the app thinks I'm asleep but good to see the comparison of the speeds. I was cruising along up a forestry rd & it was reading 21kph so I thought it might be 5 kph or so over.
Did you find the tyre just slipped over the rim without even tyre levers? Weird but cool.
Don't tell Philly G about it or he'll want to join the cool kids gang too.

 

[Philly G]

Don't tell Philly G about it or he'll want to join the cool kids gang too.

I have a 27.5 wheel I could try but I'm scared l'll really like it and I've already invested heavily in my 29er wheelset

 

[torabora851]

I have a 27.5 wheel I could try but I'm scared l'll really like it and I've already invested heavily in my 29er wheelset

Haha, you can try some low-profile tires to have the same diameter as 27.5

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I have a 27.5 wheel I could try but I'm scared l'll really like it and I've already invested heavily in my 29er wheelset

You could take the stickers off the 29 & put them on the 27.5. It's all about the labels...

 

[JP-NZ]

@Doug Stampfer Mate was it you that put me onto the PUSHYS RACEFACE Wheel deal in OZ?
Anyway if it was I love it thanks. I got the e-bike rated rear wheel, I think it just means 32 not 28 spokes and they are a little thicker. I set it up on a Maxxis Assegai 2.5" that I robbed off my poor pedal bike. I didn't adjust the wheel size on Kiox, I don't think it makes any difference unless the bike shop does it, TBH I don't think LBS will do in here in NZ but correct me if I am wrong.

So speed/distance is measuring wrong, Strava says 21.58km and the Bosch App says 27.14 so reading 25% faster/further than my phone GPS.

Isin't this where you start running into issues (Especially if you have a bike in the UK and have a 25kph cutout ) so effectively the Kiox/Bosch cuts out at 32kph so according to your findings your actual speed will only be around 27kph?

Seems like you'll be really limited on most trails at that speed? I ride my analogue bike on XC trails at well over 30kph

 

[RolyNZ]

@JP-NZ Yep it probably does cutout way too early, but I keep pedaling, and I found pre-Mullet when it cut out, I was on flatter or down sections so I could easily keep pedaling. I have not done a ride on sealed/hardpack yet and It may be more of an issue then but I am yet to test it out.

By the way, my 25% calc may be misleading, I don't think my strava distances are very accurate as it's from my iphone. My mate rides a Bosch ebike and we had similar distance readings on our bike computers. I have just checked back over previous rides Bosh App vs Strava Distance, and they are quite different each time, Strava was only 1% out on a straightish 30k town ride and on other rides it was 15% and 23% out, so go figure, I don't know what to believe.

Bottom line so far is I like it. I will talk to bike shop mate to see if I can re-programme the wheel size as I don't think I will be going back anytime soon.

 

[Philly G]

Seems like you'll be really limited on most trails at that speed? I ride my analogue bike on XC trails at well over 30kph

It would depend on the trails...most of my riding, I'm just using the motor to get me back to the top so I can bomb down again...in these scenarios it wouldn't matter much if the assistance cuts out earlier. We are lucky though, here in NZ, with the 32kph limit, the 25kph imposed in the UK and Aussie doesn't make sense to me.

 

[JP-NZ]

Bottom line so far is I like it. I will talk to bike shop mate to see if I can re-programme the wheel size as I don't think I will be going back anytime soon.

The kiox can definitely be programmed for 650B wheel, few other posters on here have mentioned it. Talk nicely to your LBS and they should be able to help. I have read some stories overseas of LBS not wanting to mess with it though

 

[Doug Stampfer]

The kiox can definitely be programmed for 650B wheel, few other posters on here have mentioned it. Talk nicely to your LBS and they should be able to help. I have read some stories overseas of LBS not wanting to mess with it though

Yes but some of us poorer peasants have the nyon(?) basic system. If you do find a LBS that reprogrammes them please let me know. Not that much of a problem for me though as if I'm doing more than 25kph on most the tracks I ride then I'm in for a long stay in a hospital

 

[Doomanic]

Any Bosch dealer can do it, whether they will do it, on the other hand.

 

[RustyMojo]

I’ve been running my rail back to back Mullet vs 29er for a long time. I have now permanently settled on mullet. It’s just better all around. In terms of handling both for bike park style riding and steep natural trails. I’ve made some supportive changes to make it even better balanced as a mullet (high position, 155 crank arms, 160 zen ultimates) . I haven’t really seen any of the negatives detailed by others. That’s riding UK style which is likely different to other parts of the world. I know what I like from a bike after riding for many years. Rail is just about sorted for me now, just rear shock needed to get it properly dialled.

 

[torabora851]

Have tested the mullet today in my local bikepark. Was surprised with the results. I didn't find any positives from the rear 27.5 wheel. Despite the high position with 27.5 I felt that my weight is too back so I struggled to load the front wheel in the berms. Braking bumps are much better with 29 wheel and the overall feeling is that 29 gives more confidence.

I think this is not about the size of the wheel, the minolink rises the bb by just 6mm and the 27.5 wheel has a 16-20mm height drop, so the minolink position is not enough to compensate for it. So geometry changed drastically.

The results surprised me, as I bought the rail with the intention to convert it to mullet, but now I'm not so sure. Decided to return back to 29 wheel, for a couple of weeks, and then switch back to 27.5 and test it a couple of weeks.

 

[RustyMojo]

Have tested the mullet today in my local bikepark. Was surprised with the results. I didn't find any positives from the rear 27.5 wheel. Despite the high position with 27.5 I felt that my weight is too back so I struggled to load the front wheel in the berms. Braking bumps are much better with 29 wheel and the overall feeling is that 29 gives more confidence.

I think this is not about the size of the wheel, the minolink rises the bb by just 6mm and the 27.5 wheel has a 16-20mm height drop, so the minolink position is not enough to compensate for it. So geometry changed drastically.

The results surprised me, as I bought the rail with the intention to convert it to mullet, but now I'm not so sure. Decided to return back to 29 wheel, for a couple of weeks, and then switch back to 27.5 and test it a couple of weeks.

Did you change the fork travel at all? I’m running 160 Zeb ultimates and have now settled full time on mullet. I haven’t suffered any problems with loading the front end up, but I guess that may be me naturally adjusting body position to compensate. Can’t say I noticed. I also don’t ride bike parks very often. Just steep, natural off piste trails.

 

[torabora851]

Did you change the fork travel at all? I’m running 160 Zeb ultimates and have now settled full time on mullet. I haven’t suffered any problems with loading the front end up, but I guess that may be me naturally adjusting body position to compensate. Can’t say I noticed. I also don’t ride bike parks very often. Just steep, natural off piste trails.

No, my fork is 160 from the stock. I dropped the stem by one 10mm spacer and it felt better. Unfortunately, the rain started and after one loop I returned home. So I had 3 runs with 29, then 2 with 27.5, and one with 27.5 and lower stem.

Anyway, I'm not going to give mullet up, will continue to test it on other trails.

 

[RustyMojo]

No, my fork is 160 from the stock. I dropped the stem by one 10mm spacer and it felt better. Unfortunately, the rain started and after one loop I returned home. So I had 3 runs with 29, then 2 with 27.5, and one with 27.5 and lower stem.

Anyway, I'm not going to give mullet up, will continue to test it on other trails.

Is it a 160 Zeb you are running?

 

[torabora851]

Is it a 160 Zeb you are running?

Yep, select+ from stock. 20% sag

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Have tested the mullet today in my local bikepark. Was surprised with the results. I didn't find any positives from the rear 27.5 wheel....
surprised me, as I bought the rail with the intention to convert it to mullet, but now I'm not so sure. Decided to return back to 29 wheel, for a couple of weeks, and then switch back to 27.5 and test it a couple of weeks.

I wouldn't worry too much about the need for a mullet if you're riding bikepark (Never ridden in one but I'm assuming a bike park has well graded long smooth tracks with jumps like what I see on youtube) I've found some better riders than me have gone back to 29ers as the mullet isn't the best for all conditions & as you said the geo gets a bit messed up.
My rides are short downhill type shuttles. If I was riding XC or longer cruisier rides I'd stick with the 29. I went for the mullet as it was the arse buzz on steep drops & or having to drag the 29 rear wheel around steep twisty tight corners where I felt the 29 was annoying. In both situations I'm either wanting to get right over the back or gravity is pushing me forward weighting the front wheel anyway. Other guys I ride with do the same tracks on 29 rear just fine & don't mind them.
To me the mullet is a gamechanger, makes me a better rider with more confidence & makes me want to get out & ride more. However my advice to anyone thinking of mulleting is to ask yourself if you're happy with the 29 to begin with & do you think you're missing out on something? If you are curious try a mullet first before spending the money even if it means slapping on the 27.5 from your old analogue bike for a quick lap.
There's no right & wrong answer just preferences.

 

[irie]

I wouldn't worry too much about the need for a mullet if you're riding bikepark (Never ridden in one but I'm assuming a bike park has well graded long smooth tracks with jumps like what I see on youtube)

Even an old boy like me (with eight grandchildren) enjoys riding "well graded long smooth tracks with jumps" like this.

Not as fast obviously, but enjoy.

 

[Juise]

Also when you use mino link in high position on rail you can use 65 mm shock stroke, so you can have ~170 mm rear travel.

 

[JP-NZ]

FWIW I was playing with my Kiox 300 last night, factory set circumference was 2366mm and I could change it up and down at LEAST 100mm (I didn't find the end point). So if you decide to mullet a Bosch smart system bike you could indeed do it without needing the LBS.