Rail (625Wh) Rail 9.7 (gen 2) vs Rail 7 (gen 3)

[matics]

Just got back from the Trek store and feel like I've narrowed my choice for my first eMTB to either the Rail 9.7 (gen 2) or the Rail 7 (gen 3). There's $500 difference between the two (Rail 9.7 costs more). Not sure which to get and would love your feedback. They are similarly specced (both have 625wh batteries and the same geometry). Here are the differences as I see them.

Rail 7 (gen 3)	Rail 9.7 (gen 2)
Alloy frame	Carbon frame
Bosch Smart System with LED remote only (no screen)	Older Bosch gen 2 with Kiox display
Deore M6100 cassette and chain	SLX M7100 cassette and chain
TranzX JD-YSP18 Dropper seatpost	Bontrager Line Dropper seatpost

 

[Stihldog]

My vote would be for the Rail 9.7 Gen2.
Because it reminds me of when I was younger.

 

[Marvin2Shoes]

My reason is not what I would have thought. Reading those specs, I would normally choose the Alloy frame because I see it as easier to repair/modify. You haven't listed the overall weight spec which would be interesting. Not that overall weight is an issue, especially if you are a heavier human like me.
I personally have a beef with the Bosch smart system as I don't appreciate Bosch so gleefully obstructing the end-user from accessing acceptable on-road commuting speeds by constantly updating their system to look for discrepancies. If you don't mind the restriction/more in-depth workarounds to be rid of it, then its down to lesser options in 6100 crank lengths available and the tiny 60g heavier 6100 cassette. Hardly deal breakers in anyones language.
I'd probably save the 500 quid but then I bought the Rail 5 so what would I know lol.

 

[mustclime]

Gen 2 has a 75 degree seat tube angle…. Not a fan

 

[Ride 2d@y]

I would choose the simple and rugged Rail 7 - just like the rental companies choose . . .

Tully – Trek Rail 7 Size Large (For riders 5’7 – 6’1″) - Smiley Bike Rentals of Bentonville

Rail 7 is a long-travel electric mountain bike built for ripping the big stuff. It features the same high-end trail tech as Trek's analog trail bikes, an upgraded fork, drivetrain, battery, and more, plus a powerful new Bosch drive system that's basically like having your own shuttle.

smileybikerentals.com

PS: That particular Rail 9.7 has alloy rear triangle and is NOT the latest "Bosch Smart system" by the way.

 

[matics]

I would choose the simple and rugged Rail 7 - just like the rental companies choose . . .

Tully – Trek Rail 7 Size Large (For riders 5’7 – 6’1″) - Smiley Bike Rentals of Bentonville

Rail 7 is a long-travel electric mountain bike built for ripping the big stuff. It features the same high-end trail tech as Trek's analog trail bikes, an upgraded fork, drivetrain, battery, and more, plus a powerful new Bosch drive system that's basically like having your own shuttle.

smileybikerentals.com

PS: That particular Rail 9.7 has alloy rear triangle and is NOT the latest "Bosch Smart system" by the way.

I'm getting a lot of conflicting info regarding the 9.7 having an alloy rear triangle. Do you have a source for this info? I've asked this question on this forum and was told that there were no carbon rails with alloy rear triangles.

 

[matics]

Wow, you are totally correct, it is an alloy rear triangle. I just took a look at a closeup of the rear triangle on the 9.7 (gen 2) and the welds are obvious. I also looked at the 9.7 gen 4 and see the same welds. It looks like you need to go up to a 9.8 to get the carbon rear triangle.

 

[irie]

I would choose the simple and rugged Rail 7 - just like the rental companies choose . . .

So would I.

 

[Stihldog]

Hmmm? My neighbor, who has the identical 2020 Rail 9.7 as I do, broke his rear triangle a few years ago. It was carbon.

My Rail 9.7 is definitely carbon.

Some models may have alloy rear triangles. Look for welds.

 

[matics]

Not sure what to trust now. Could the images on Trek's own site be wrong or have they moved to alloy rear triangles at some point post 2020? Here's what is shown on Trek's site for the two 9.7s they have for sale (gen 2 and gen 4)

 

[Stihldog]

Yah, both of those look like alloy triangles because of the welds.

I’m not sure what the process could be for the pivot points or bearing pockets on a carbon triangle. ??

 

[irie]

Not sure what to trust now. Could the images on Trek's own site be wrong or have they moved to alloy rear triangles at some point post 2020? Here's what is shown on Trek's site for the two 9.7s they have for sale (gen 2 and gen 4)

View attachment 130766 View attachment 130767

Specifications change all the time so pictures may tell a thousand lies.

 

[Ride 2d@y]

There was a running change to a cheaper spec late 2021 - I snagged an early full carbon 9.7 (w/NX, Yari, Deore 4-pot brakes) Because of Covid bike shortages, I was happy to get the bike - and pay $7,500 USD at the time, ouch.

 

[mustclime]

Every plastic bike I have broken were damaged in the rear triangles ….alloy rear triangle would be a plus. I believe the plastic rails have plastic rear triangles….. I wish they would update the alloy rails so I could recommend them to people. The alloy rails geo sucks.

 

[Stihldog]

I don’t see many Lamborghini’s in our Walmart parking lot. Probably because they get high-centred at the entrance. But I’d still buy a Lamborghini if the price came down a lot …a whole lot!

My Cervélo gravel, Giant Hybrid and Norco road were all carbon. Never had any issues with those frames or carbon wheels. However there is a certain risk with my Rail 9.7.

A scratch or nick on the carbon surface of the frame can compromise that part of the bike. My experience with carbon structure is only with arrows and bikes. The carbon arrows were expensive and could be dangerous if not handled properly.

My carbon Rail 9.7 needs to be handled, or inspected, properly. On the non-drive side of the lower triangle I once used zip-ties to hold back the hydraulic brake line from rubbing in the spokes. Over a few months the zip-tie had wore thru the paint and into the carbon. My fault. Replaced that with another carbon triangle. Lesson learned.

There are some benefits to carbon frames though.

 

[matics]

Every plastic bike I have broken were damaged in the rear triangles ….alloy rear triangle would be a plus. I believe the plastic rails have plastic rear triangles….. I wish they would update the alloy rails so I could recommend them to people. The alloy rails geo sucks.

Could you elaborate on why, in your opinion, the alloy rail geometry sucks? It's my understanding that the alloy rails dave the same geometry as the earlier 625Wh carbon rails and the geometry changed when the newer 750Wh battery was made available? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[fasterjason]

It's my understanding that the alloy rails have the same geometry as the earlier 625Wh carbon rails and the geometry changed when the newer 750Wh battery was made available? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct, original Rail Al and C frame geometry are almost identical except standover I believe. The size on both is a little off, e.g. a large is closer to a medium, and geo is older with slacker ST and steeper HT. I would not say it sucks but it's not neo-geo.

Either bike you get you should install a 170mm air shaft in the fork, it will help the geometry.

 

[jcarlson9]

I got the rail 7 when it first came out. I waited 6 months to get it. As far as the bosh motor goes. I do not think there is an upgrade for it. Is there? It's not blue tooth. I downloaded the flow app, but i don't think it works with my bike.

 

[irie]

You are correct, original Rail Al and C frame geometry are almost identical except standover I believe. The size on both is a little off, e.g. a large is closer to a medium, and geo is older with slacker ST and steeper HT. I would not say it sucks but it's not neo-geo.

Either bike you get you should install a 170mm air shaft in the fork, it will help the geometry.

I have a 2022 Rail 5 (L) with Zeb A2 160mm forks. How would fitting a 170mm air shaft "help the geometry"? From a practical point of view, what performance of the bike would be improved?

 

[mustclime]

I have a 2022 Rail 5 (L) with Zeb A2 160mm forks. How would fitting a 170mm air shaft "help the geometry"? From a practical point of view, what performance of the bike would be improved?

It will slacken the head and seat tube angles, the stack stack increase by about 5-6mm and you will lose some reach. I personally prefer head angles between 64-62.5 degrees because I learned to ride the new geometry bikes . Slacker head angles allow you to load the front wheel with out joining the OTB club. You can offset the seat tube angle by sliding your saddle all the way forward on the rails and you can get a longer stem( like 40-50 mm) to reset the reach.

 

[irie]

It will slacken the head and seat tube angles, the stack stack increase by about 5-6mm and you will lose some reach. I personally prefer head angles between 64-62.5 degrees because I learned to ride the new geometry bikes . Slacker head angles allow you to load the front wheel with out joining the OTB club. You can offset the seat tube angle by sliding your saddle all the way forward on the rails and you can get a longer stem( like 40-50 mm) to reset the reach.

To repeat my question, which was ... "From a practical point of view, what performance of the [my] bike would be improved?"

 

[fasterjason]

To repeat my question, which was ... "From a practical point of view, what performance of the [my] bike would be improved?"

Rock shox debon air is notorious for losing travel due to not equalizing. The revised debon air was an improvement but still loses static travel. Adding 10mm of travel helps with the deficiency.

I feel the HT angle on the original rail is too steep, and again the extra 10mm helps. The performance advantage is more travel and better weight distribution, for my riding anyway.

 

[irie]

Rock shox debon air is notorious for losing travel due to not equalizing. The revised debon air was an improvement but still loses static travel. Adding 10mm of travel helps with the deficiency.

I feel the HT angle on the original rail is too steep, and again the extra 10mm helps. The performance advantage is more travel and better weight distribution, for my riding anyway.

"... for my riding anyway."

Oh, so what you have generally recommended is in fact for your riding conditions ...

 

[Ride 2d@y]

I bought a used 170 Zeb and 165 Ohlins coil for my 23 Rail 5. (from a Slash with a broken carbon frame in fact) Buttery smooth and just a tad slow steering, but I soon adjusted.

 

[fasterjason]

"... for my riding anyway."

Oh, so what you have generally recommended is in fact for your riding conditions ...

Yes, clearly....

 

[mustclime]

To repeat my question, which was ... "From a practical point of view, what performance of the [my] bike would be improved?"

Slacker head angles make the bike more controlled in steep descents and at higher speeds. Your bike will be less inclined to have sudden stops on slow square edge hits, slacker head angles have better rollover.

 

[irie]

Slacker head angles make the bike more controlled in steep descents and at higher speeds. Your bike will be less inclined to have sudden stops on slow square edge hits, slacker head angles have better rollover.

My response to FJ was to question the validity of the general advice he was offering which he has now agreed was in relation to his own personal riding conditions.

 

[jcarlson9]

View attachment 130912 I bought a used 170 Zeb and 165 Ohlins coil for my 23 Rail 5. (from a Slash with a broken carbon frame in fact) Buttery smooth and just a tad slow steering, but I soon adjusted.

What a score! Those look like expensive parts.

 

[Ride 2d@y]

I figure I paid half price retail with installation by suspension shop - and my Rail 5 was instantly transformed from a RAV4 to a TRD Tacoma truck (!!!!!!!!!) using a Toyota analogy.

 

[jcarlson9]

I figure I paid half price retail with installation by suspension shop - and my Rail 5 was instantly transformed from a RAV4 to a TRD Tacoma truck (!!!!!!!!!) using a Toyota analogy.

My rail 7 beats me up.