Levo Gen 3 Punched Out!? The blasting up fun has been lost?

[Jpzeroday]

Background: I owned a Levo2 Expert and SWorks (upon motor failure, upgraded) and a ‘20 Kenevo. I have had all of the other motor systems (Shimano on Merida, Decoy, and Bullit; Bosch on a Rail 9.9, my current ride). I’ve ridden all of the motors extensively.

Two weeks ago I rented a Levo3 for 5 days and rode the heck out of it in the Rockies (great service from the Spesh Experience Center in Boulder, BTW)…

I swear power is down SUBSTANTIALLY from my Kenevo/Gen2…I LOVED the Gen2 motor feel. I believe the GEN2 deployed torque boosts better than any other motor…it felt lively and when you were smashing the pedals in boost…it was bionic.

The Levo3 motor feels muted…starting to feel like an EP8 (which I believe is a crappy motor…not lively and super poor efficiency…the motor is the reason I moved on from my Bullit, which I mostly appreciated otherwise).

I was REALLY disappointed. I rode a ton of miles in 4 days and just couldn’t get over it. Particularly compared to my CX4 Bosch, which feels closer to the motor in my (since stolen) Kenevo (LOVED that bike!!)

Anyone else having the same experience?

I didn’t mess with mission control…is there a way to get that punchiness back? Or is boost maxed out already in default?

I want my full power EMTB to be a blast in boost.

I have a LevoSL that I absolutely love…but I have it set up completely differently—down country style with fast rolling tires (Aspens) and super light wheels (ENVEs). When I want a hard, but still flow capable workout, I take the SL. But, when I want to go hit a power hour +, I want a full power bike that is a hoot…and man the new GEN3 did not feel like that.

I will say as a positive for the GEN3, the suspension kinematic are the best I have experiences…and for super technical, high risk climbing on gnar, it is the best bike I have ever ridden also…but I will say that my heart was beating out of my chest on long strings of tech up moves…just not enough torque when you need it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yes.

The acceleration response curve is different on the newer firmwares, so to have the same feeling you have to up the acceleration response.

I'd guess on a rental, they either leave it stock - which would be lower than you're used to, or turn it down to potentially improve motor longevity.

The Gen4 does deliver power nicely though.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Has some one ridden back to back Levo/Kenevo (Brose 2.1?) compared to the Levo 3 Brose 2.2?

Slower? Less powerful. Looking for feedback from those of you with direct experience.

 

[Squamish Sucks]

Has some one ridden back to back Levo/Kenevo (Brose 2.1?) compared to the Levo 3 Brose 2.2?

Slower? Less powerful. Looking for feedback from those of you with direct experience.

Yes, I had gen 2 Levo and switched to a gen 3.

my brother in law has my gen 2 now.

The only thing I noticed was smoother power delivery and quieter than any of the 4 or 5 motors on my gen 2. Speed and battery life is the exact same.

 

[mtbrdan]

Better a slightly less powerful tune than a blown motor.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Has some one ridden back to back Levo/Kenevo (Brose 2.1?) compared to the Levo 3 Brose 2.2?

Slower? Less powerful. Looking for feedback from those of you with direct experience.

There are countless posts on this.

The 2.2 is not some huge change, it's marketing. There is no set serial number cut off point or a set date. Most motors made after around July 2020 are 2.2 spec - ie, have the latest belt. They don't run different firmware. It's easier to sell bikes if everyone thinks they're getting a newer motor.

The main differences people notice are with the firmware changes. The way acceleration response works was changed earlier this year, so depending how people had it setup before, some people need to increase it to have the same feeling they had before that update (as mentioned already). The 7.4.2 update brought voltage compensation. So rather than a fixed max of 20 amps through the whole battery cycle, the current varies to compensate for the lower voltages so you don't get power loss as the battery depletes. There was also the update last year to remove the micro power spikes which were suspected of causing some of the motor failures resulting in smoother feeling motors.

 

[Winger]

Background: I owned a Levo2 Expert and SWorks (upon motor failure, upgraded) and a ‘20 Kenevo. I have had all of the other motor systems (Shimano on Merida, Decoy, and Bullit; Bosch on a Rail 9.9, my current ride). I’ve ridden all of the motors extensively.

Two weeks ago I rented a Levo3 for 5 days and rode the heck out of it in the Rockies (great service from the Spesh Experience Center in Boulder, BTW)…

I swear power is down SUBSTANTIALLY from my Kenevo/Gen2…I LOVED the Gen2 motor feel. I believe the GEN2 deployed torque boosts better than any other motor…it felt lively and when you were smashing the pedals in boost…it was bionic.

The Levo3 motor feels muted…starting to feel like an EP8 (which I believe is a crappy motor…not lively and super poor efficiency…the motor is the reason I moved on from my Bullit, which I mostly appreciated otherwise).

I was REALLY disappointed. I rode a ton of miles in 4 days and just couldn’t get over it. Particularly compared to my CX4 Bosch, which feels closer to the motor in my (since stolen) Kenevo (LOVED that bike!!)

Anyone else having the same experience?

I didn’t mess with mission control…is there a way to get that punchiness back? Or is boost maxed out already in default?

I want my full power EMTB to be a blast in boost.

I have a LevoSL that I absolutely love…but I have it set up completely differently—down country style with fast rolling tires (Aspens) and super light wheels (ENVEs). When I want a hard, but still flow capable workout, I take the SL. But, when I want to go hit a power hour +, I want a full power bike that is a hoot…and man the new GEN3 did not feel like that.

I will say as a positive for the GEN3, the suspension kinematic are the best I have experiences…and for super technical, high risk climbing on gnar, it is the best bike I have ever ridden also…but I will say that my heart was beating out of my chest on long strings of tech up moves…just not enough torque when you need it.

My background is/are motorcycles for more years than i’d Like to admit, what you describe is classic motorcycle development, particularly when it comes to engines, development of all things electric look to be going exactly the same way....it’s always the early models that have that ‘Edge’ feel.

 

[Rosemount]

Do you normally ride at that altitude ?

but I will say that my heart was beating out of my chest on long strings of tech up moves…just not enough torque when you need it.

 

[Jpzeroday]

I ride regularly at 8-10k’ elevation. It is not a fitness issue, if that was the subtext of your question. My VO2Max is elite for my age. I can get this bike up big climbs, but it just wasn’t as fast a reward an uphilling experience as post models. And I find one of the great joys of eMTBing is uphill flow.

Is it that the default tune for Boost is 75% Acceleration?

How big a difference does changing that to 100% make? Does it get it back to where the old 2.1 firmware tunes were at? Or close?

I wish I had of thought to connect mission control and experiment with this on my demo days. But, I didn’t. Looking for shared experience regarding others who have made that tuning adjustment.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I ride regularly at 8-10k’ elevation. It is not a fitness issue, if that was the subtext of your question. My VO2Max is elite for my age. I can get this bike up big climbs, but it just wasn’t as fast a reward an uphilling experience as post models. And I find one of the great joys of eMTBing is uphill flow.

Is it that the default tune for Boost is 75% Acceleration?

How big a difference does changing that to 100% make? Does it get it back to where the old 2.1 firmware tunes were at? Or close?

I wish I had of thought to connect mission control and experiment with this on my demo days. But, I didn’t. Looking for shared experience regarding others who have made that tuning adjustment.

Default on my Gen 3 was 0% Acceleration Response. I moved it up to 40% to feel similar to my older Levo.

 

[RickBullotta]

Background: I owned a Levo2 Expert and SWorks (upon motor failure, upgraded) and a ‘20 Kenevo. I have had all of the other motor systems (Shimano on Merida, Decoy, and Bullit; Bosch on a Rail 9.9, my current ride). I’ve ridden all of the motors extensively.

Two weeks ago I rented a Levo3 for 5 days and rode the heck out of it in the Rockies (great service from the Spesh Experience Center in Boulder, BTW)…

I swear power is down SUBSTANTIALLY from my Kenevo/Gen2…I LOVED the Gen2 motor feel. I believe the GEN2 deployed torque boosts better than any other motor…it felt lively and when you were smashing the pedals in boost…it was bionic.

The Levo3 motor feels muted…starting to feel like an EP8 (which I believe is a crappy motor…not lively and super poor efficiency…the motor is the reason I moved on from my Bullit, which I mostly appreciated otherwise).

I was REALLY disappointed. I rode a ton of miles in 4 days and just couldn’t get over it. Particularly compared to my CX4 Bosch, which feels closer to the motor in my (since stolen) Kenevo (LOVED that bike!!)

Anyone else having the same experience?

I didn’t mess with mission control…is there a way to get that punchiness back? Or is boost maxed out already in default?

I want my full power EMTB to be a blast in boost.

I have a LevoSL that I absolutely love…but I have it set up completely differently—down country style with fast rolling tires (Aspens) and super light wheels (ENVEs). When I want a hard, but still flow capable workout, I take the SL. But, when I want to go hit a power hour +, I want a full power bike that is a hoot…and man the new GEN3 did not feel like that.

I will say as a positive for the GEN3, the suspension kinematic are the best I have experiences…and for super technical, high risk climbing on gnar, it is the best bike I have ever ridden also…but I will say that my heart was beating out of my chest on long strings of tech up moves…just not enough torque when you need it.

Man, my experience with the EP8 is the polar opposite. Efficient as hell, plenty of pop, very responsive. Did you take advantage of the ability to select or tune the EP8 profiles? Profile 1 is pretty mellow. Profile 2 has plenty of boost. And that's on an Orbea Rise with the 60 Nm torque limit! Anemic is the SL's motor. ;-)

 

[NewBeeEMTB]

Default on my Gen 3 was 0% Acceleration Response. I moved it up to 40% to feel similar to my older Levo.

Yes the default is zero on my 22' Expert and I watched a Marshall Mullens youtube video and set mine to what he suggested which was 60 I think. I actually think I lowered it since then though because even that was a little high for me and I didn't feel like I needed that much .

 

[Doomanic]

Man, my experience with the EP8 is the polar opposite. Efficient as hell, plenty of pop, very responsive. Did you take advantage of the ability to select or tune the EP8 profiles? Profile 1 is pretty mellow. Profile 2 has plenty of boost. And that's on an Orbea Rise with the 60 Nm torque limit! Anemic is the SL's motor. ;-)

You must have the only good one out there then. My mate's Bullit has less punch and range than my Rail. On a recent comparison I did, the Rail went 20% further and climbed 30% higher than the Bullit on draggier tyres on a damp, and therefore draggier, day.

 

[Jpzeroday]

You must have the only good one out there then. My mate's Bullit has less punch and range than my Rail. On a recent comparison I did, the Rail went 20% further and climbed 30% higher than the Bullit on draggier tyres on a damp, and therefore draggier, day.

Exact same for me.

Had a Bullit. Traded for the Rail. The EP8 with enduro tires on a full fat feels like an SL motor. The CX4 on the Rail is bionic.

I have done exact same ride comparisons. Big rides. Like 30+ miles in Moab rides in tech and gnar. The Bosch, apples to apples, is ~20% more efficient per wH than the EP8 and has way more torque at that efficiency. Have over 500 miles on both motors.

I have thousands of miles on the e8000 and the Brose 2.1, btw.

 

[craige robertson]

110%, Iv had 7 brose, the first in a second hand 2019 alloy levo was the strongest, 2020 s works was slower climbing, had 4 motors in that, think the second one lost more torque again, Gen 3 less again, not going into spec’ tuning out spikes, thicker belts, smoothing out etc. But know my first levo is stronger than my latest.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yeah the successive upgrades slowly killed the torque and fun in the Specialized Levo engines. They are not the same bikes we got excited about and purchased.
It is like buying a 2.8 Audi and because Audi had some engine issues they reduced the power to 2.0 That is the most accurate analogy I can think of.
The moderators (Zimerframe) on this site are biased towards the manufacturers and will eventually censor or deny or justify any major change.
Some of us noticed a huge difference.

LOL. When you said you had a problem I stupidly wasted hours of my life trying to help you but you refused to provide information or try anything suggested, you just continued to act like an entitled prick. I'm not saying you are one, just that you acted like one - being in Hollywood, maybe acting comes naturally. The prick part, who knows, maybe you're just a very good actor.

I even wasted more time reaching out to you by PM after all that crap, with the same suggestions and more explanations to try and help you and at the same time try and re-build any bridges lost between us with the frustration of trying to help you and you just saying the same boring crap over and over - which you ignored, because, well, you act like an arrogant prick and you know best and would rather suffer and presume yourself correct than try to fix the problem.

As for site/moderator/mine biases.

From what I've seen the moderators are completely unbiased, except towards assholes, so yes, I've had lots of things deleted.

The site undeniably has more specialized owners, basically because of the number of bikes sold. Unlike everyone else in the early days, they were selling good looking bikes rather than something which looked like a python that had swallowed a vacuum cleaner.

As for me, I'm actually the opposite. I'm only interested in trying to help people and point out when someone's talking crap - which is beneficial to no one. With regard to Spesh. I am an owner. I think they design great bikes. I think the accountants get involved and they then build ok bikes. I think they're corporate structure towards owners and bike shops absolutely sucks. They rave about how good they are and their warranty, but that all comes down to the bike shop. If you have an excellent one willing to work all hours and bend over backwards for the client for no reward, fantastic. If you don't, you're basically shafted because Spesh are all words and no action. If you live in a country where Spesh won't even respond to you and shops won't support you unless you bought from them - because they get nothing out of it, so who can blame them - you're on your own and have no warranty. So no, I'm not bias towards Spesh. I think they're Sh1t and certainly wouldn't buy another one and think anyone who even considers buying a second hand one either doesn't want a bike to actually ride or just likes committing financial suicide - which doesn't change the fact that I disagree when someone's talking bollox and wasting everyone's time for weeks on a problem rather than trying to actually get to the bottom of something.

 

[Mohawk3a]

On the gen 3, I cant touch any of the strava times I recorded climbing on my gen 2. I figured it has more to do with the gen 3 being heavier with a 27.5 rear wheel. The bikes have the same motor and should perform the same if mission control setups are identical.

 

[Mohawk3a]

Yeah the successive upgrades slowly killed the torque and fun in the Specialized Levo engines. They are not the same bikes we got excited about and purchased.
It is like buying a 2.8 Audi and because Audi had some engine issues they reduced the power to 2.0 That is the most accurate analogy I can think of.
The moderators (Zimerframe) on this site are biased towards the manufacturers and will eventually censor or deny or justify any major change.
Some of us noticed a huge difference.

Ill admit that I’m biased towards specialized. I’ve ridden all the different ebike motors. Ive owned a trek rail, pivot shuttle, and test rode several other top spec bikes. All my best strava times were recorded on levo’s. In my opinion the brose motor is the most powerful and the mission control app has the best custom tuning. I’ve blown several motors and my bike shop replaced them all for free within 2-3 days. Small price to pay for getting to ride the fastest bike ??‍

 

[Jpzeroday]

So can anyone with lots of miles on the old motor/firmware and the new qualify the difference? Major, moderate, minor?

How about in terms of sustained climbs you have done on both old and new? What’s the time difference? Can you want if the difference for us?

For instance, I have a 10.5 mile 2500’ climb in Cottonwood, NV that I have smashed the pedals on over a hundred times.

Kenevo (2.1/punchy firmware): 45 mins
Levo2 (2.1/punchy firmware): just a bit longer than Kenevo
Rail (CX4): 43 mins, 14.7 mph
SL: (about an hour?)

P.S.: I am trying to talk myself into or out of moving off the Rail to a Levo3. I’m willing to loose just a little bit of uphill performance, but not much. I found the suspension kinematics and components on the Levo far superior to the Rail. Also, after having the mullet on the Bullit, I can attest that the mixed wheel on an MTB is substantially more agile than full 29er. The full 29er rolls better, but frankly the rear suspension kinematics on the Levo3 MORE than covered the difference with better pedaling platform and substantially better mid-stroke support than the Rail. I noticed my rear in the Bullit getting hung up in the big chunky bits, but much less so with the Levo3 (perhaps due to the rearward initial axel path?). Also, at this point I find the Fox38 to be superior to the Zeb. …and the X2 is massively superior to the RS Ultimate/Thrushaft if you ride hard.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Rob…perhaps you can chime in? You have a bunch of miles on both the Rail and the Levo2…what’s your opinion?

 

[Jpzeroday]

On the gen 3, I cant touch any of the strava times I recorded climbing on my gen 2. I figured it has more to do with the gen 3 being heavier with a 27.5 rear wheel. The bikes have the same motor and should perform the same if mission control setups are identical.

Mohawk3a—-this is awesome feedback…can you quantify the difference in percentage or minutes/distance?

 

[craige robertson]

For me i am OK with the update now. The bike has a smoother power delivery and the battery lasts longer. I do miss the raw punch the Levo used to have but i am having just as much fun.

Same hear… plus the gen 3 bombs down…

 

[Zimmerframe]

For me i am OK with the update now. The bike has a smoother power delivery and the battery lasts longer. I do miss the raw punch the Levo used to have but i am having just as much fun.

I suggested using Blevo to make sure you were pulling full amps and there wasn't another problem..

I suggested using Mission control to confirm your settings and adjust the acceleration response .. which if you're saying it's still not got the same response - then you haven't.

I didn't say you were an asshole, but as usual that would be you reading one thing and interpreting it as another. I said you were a prick. Which would seem to be incorrect. You would seem to be an idiot. Someone who keeps doing the same thing without changing anything, but expects the outcome to be different.

The person who agreed with you had their Assistance in turbo set to 60% and complained it didn't perform as they'd expect. Now they were an asshole.

The other person tried things suggested and tested things back to back and all fixed their problems. Bar one person who it turned out had a faulty battery and that was fixed with a new battery - hence the suggestion to test with Blevo - god forbid you might actually spend a few moments to actually try and fix your problem when you can spend hours complaining on a forum instead.

Same hear… plus the gen 3 bombs down…

He doesn't have a gen3. not that it makes any difference, it's the same motor. If you want the same poke, just run mission control and up your acceleration response. As you've changed motors they will have come with different firmwares. Some of these changed the default settings or the way those settings worked.

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

On the gen 3, I cant touch any of the strava times I recorded climbing on my gen 2. I figured it has more to do with the gen 3 being heavier with a 27.5 rear wheel. The bikes have the same motor and should perform the same if mission control setups are identical.

im slower on the climbs when I put my 27.5 rear wheel one..... my gen2 is faster with the 29 wheel on the back... could also be causative set my wheel size to 2000 so I get a higher top speed with my 29er wheel

 

[Zimmerframe]

And Specialized really stepped up to the plate with the extended warranty. Mostly i got annoyed at being abused by a moderator when i was just trying to share my experiences.

@Moderator did you abuse RPNZ ? What did you do, not roll out a red carpet for him and tell him he was right ?

You weren't trying to share your experience, you were trying to suffocate everyone with your experience and do everything possible to undermine a thread where people were trying to understand how to fix a problem or work out if there was a problem. And you still haven't fixed it.

Anyway, I've leave you to your twaddle and you can continue to waste everyone elses time.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I suggested using Blevo to make sure you were pulling full amps and there wasn't another problem..

I suggested using Mission control to confirm your settings and adjust the acceleration response .. which if you're saying it's still not got the same response - then you haven't.

I didn't say you were an asshole, but as usual that would be you reading one thing and interpreting it as another. I said you were a prick. Which would seem to be incorrect. You would seem to be an idiot. Someone who keeps doing the same thing without changing anything, but expects the outcome to be different.

The person who agreed with you had their Assistance in turbo set to 60% and complained it didn't perform as they'd expect. Now they were an asshole.

The other person tried things suggested and tested things back to back and all fixed their problems. Bar one person who it turned out had a faulty battery and that was fixed with a new battery - hence the suggestion to test with Blevo - god forbid you might actually spend a few moments to actually try and fix your problem when you can spend hours complaining on a forum instead.



He doesn't have a gen3. not that it makes any difference, it's the same motor. If you want the same poke, just run mission control and up your acceleration response. As you've changed motors they will have come with different firmwares. Some of these changed the default settings or the way those settings worked.

 

[Mohawk3a]

Mohawk3a—-this is awesome feedback…can you quantify the difference in percentage or minutes/distance?

A common segment I use to compare my climbing ability on different bikes is 2.67 miles with 910 ft elevation. My quickest time is 11:34 on a gen 2 levo. My gen 3 times are 11:50+. Also owned a 2021 trek rail 9.9 for 6 months and could never top the times I get on my gen 2. My trek rail times were similar to the times I get on the gen3 levo.
I can’t say that the gen3 feels any less powerful than my gen2 when the mission control settings are the same. They both feel amazing. I’ve just noticed that my strava times are a little slower on the gen3 when climbing.
They are both great bikes. It will be a very long time before I ever let go of my gen 2. My gen 2 has a x2 shock and fox 38 170mm fork and it’s the best “all around” ebike I’ve ridden. I think the gen3 favors downhill more than uphill.

 

[Jpzeroday]

A common segment I use to compare my climbing ability on different bikes is 2.67 miles with 910 ft elevation. My quickest time is 11:34 on a gen 2 levo. My gen 3 times are 11:50+. Also owned a 2021 trek rail 9.9 for 6 months and could never top the times I get on my gen 2. My trek rail times were similar to the times I get on the gen3 levo.
I can’t say that the gen3 feels any less powerful than my gen2 when the mission control settings are the same. They both feel amazing. I’ve just noticed that my strava times are a little slower on the gen3 when climbing.
They are both great bikes. It will be a very long time before I ever let go of my gen 2. My gen 2 has a x2 shock and fox 38 170mm fork and it’s the best “all around” ebike I’ve ridden. I think the gen3 favors downhill more than uphill.

View attachment 67267

I had the 20 SWorks, too. That was a unicorn I let get away :/.

How would you compare the Rail to the Levo3?

 

[Doomanic]

How do i turn off thread notifications please.

Top of the page.

 

[Mohawk3a]

I had the 20 SWorks, too. That was a unicorn I let get away :/.

How would you compare the Rail to the Levo3?

Both great bikes! I prefer the gen 3 because of the brose motor / mission control app, the 700w battery, and the adjustable geo. I can also go on much longer rides with both levos.
If I want to go on a 3 hour+ ride I can set my levo at 40% - 50% power and I wont run out of battery. With the trek rail I have put the bike in eco (which is noticeably less power than a levo in 40% - 50%)