Power input of the rider

[beutelfuchs]

indeed.

 

[Cavi]

Hi, I think there are lots of wrong assumptions here.
Yes, Specialized bikes output real-time data of both rider power and motor power. According to all available tests they seems to be quite accurate (apart from random spikes) and even Specialized mention rider power reading as accurate "with same precision or better than current power meters on market".
I don't see why this can't be used for training as with power meters on non-ebikes. Its the same thing, you just have additional motor power to increase your speed (if you want). The truth is that because I wanted to ride with power meter was just another reason to buy Levo as it just already have this sensor included in package.

I don't need to add anything related to this to Ebike Field, as Rider power data are available as standard ANT+ power sensor, so Garmin can connect to this sensor and draw power graph alone (higher device models). I only added possibility to choose to show rider power value on Ebike Field - Nerd Style.

But this discussion is about Shimano motors and I don't think they support ANT+ connectivity at all, so no data for Garmin devices if I have correct info. It is shame really that only Specialized have ANT+ connectivity in their bikes. I will be more than happy to know that something is changed there.

the shimano ep8 does do Ant + I have all my values separate, but have not tried to see if it will do power, I am going to have to try it. The key is to not use the shimano apps

 

[Gary]

Ant+ is just another wireless sensor network. Made popular with cycling mainly because of GARMIN's devices. Most Garmin edge devices have power meter metrics but the inclusion of ANT+ connectivity on an Ebike motor has nothing to do with whether power data will actually be available from that motor. Which AFAIK it isn't on Shimano Ebike motors.

 

[michel uit berg]

Another question then. Is there a crank with power meter wich fit an EP8 MOTOR?

 

[beutelfuchs]

I did some reasearch on that without result and therefore deciding for a Levo rather than a Rise.
There are some companies retrofitting their PM to an existing crank, but none of them are listing any crank fitting the EP8.
You could maybe directly ask them if they could adapt.
The ones I am aware of are
- Stages
- 4iiii
- inpeak.pl

 

[downhiller]

Hi all. First post. I've recently bought an EP8 bike and also am after rider power. Ideally I'd like to have motor power as well. I'm unclear if the EP8 provides the latter, but I'm about to try some Garmin Connect IQ apps - @JanCapek 's "Ebike Field" & maca88's "E-Bike Edge Multifield". I can't use @mark.ai 's "STEPS EMTB Data" as I have an Edge 130+ which is incompatible with it.

(I only have the b&w E7000 display, so maybe would need to upgrade to the colour EM800 display to see the ANT data, not sure.)

I'm 99.9% certain it won't tell me my input power though. As a flat pedal rider I'm looking to a crankarm option for that. I've contacted Stages (no reply) and 4iiii who cryptically replied this:

I'm sure that you are aware that a Steps motor will skew the powerdata that you are getting. I am interested in learning from you; how will you account for that difference? It's a neat idea to be sure.

Not sure if they're confused or if I'm confused! I've sent the following clarifying message, but not heard back yet:

I actually didn't know that, I figured the strain I'd be putting on the crank would be an accurate representation of the power that I'm putting into the bike? The power from the motor doesn't obviously go into the cranks, it goes into the chainring (which has a freewheel on it isolating the crank from it). Have I misunderstood, or am I missing an important nuance?

Am I right in saying that the motor spindle is just standard hollowtech 2 splines, and that any non-EMTB crank will fit it as readily as an EMTB one? I want to stick with the 165mm that are on already, and am struggling to find a 165mm MTB powermeter.

I don't think 4iiii make such a thing (only road ones, and I think the offset is too different to be of use?). Stages make this which might be perfect, pending clearance (which, eyeballing it, looks ok on my bike. I think):

Stages Power L XT M8100 / M8120 Left Crank Arm Cycling Power Meter

Don't know which Power Meter to pick? Learn your Crank Model

stagescycling.com

(But which I can't find in stock anywhere in the UK)

 

[Zimmerframe]

I've recently bought an EP8 bike and also am after rider power.

Not sure if this would give it you ? - I haven't really stayed abreast of what it gives (means using a phone/mount though).

ST Ride App - Tracker/dash/logger for STEPS motors

Update 2021/04/17: App is available at Google Play App is available at AppStore I decided to start developing an App for collecting and displaying information that is available for Shimano STEPS motors: speed/cadence/assist/Di2 data and etc, combined with GPS data and data from other external...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[mark.ai]

Hi all. First post. I've recently bought an EP8 bike and also am after rider power. Ideally I'd like to have motor power as well. I'm unclear if the EP8 provides the latter, but I'm about to try some Garmin Connect IQ apps - @JanCapek 's "Ebike Field" & maca88's "E-Bike Edge Multifield". I can't use @mark.ai 's "STEPS EMTB Data" as I have an Edge 130+ which is incompatible with it.

(I only have the b&w E7000 display, so maybe would need to upgrade to the colour EM800 display to see the ANT data, not sure.)

I'm 99.9% certain it won't tell me my input power though. As a flat pedal rider I'm looking to a crankarm option for that. I've contacted Stages (no reply) and 4iiii who cryptically replied this:



Not sure if they're confused or if I'm confused! I've sent the following clarifying message, but not heard back yet:



Am I right in saying that the motor spindle is just standard hollowtech 2 splines, and that any non-EMTB crank will fit it as readily as an EMTB one? I want to stick with the 165mm that are on already, and am struggling to find a 165mm MTB powermeter.

I don't think 4iiii make such a thing (only road ones, and I think the offset is too different to be of use?). Stages make this which might be perfect, pending clearance (which, eyeballing it, looks ok on my bike. I think):

Stages Power L XT M8100 / M8120 Left Crank Arm Cycling Power Meter

Don't know which Power Meter to pick? Learn your Crank Model

stagescycling.com

(But which I can't find in stock anywhere in the UK)

Jan's Ebike field should work with the E7000 display But you're right you can't get rider power via the EP8

I'm not sure the EP8 interface to the cranks is a normal one ... I thought it required custom crank arms ...

I've been trying some power meter pedals on one of my bikes (some Garmin Rally ones) - they seem good, but the stack is quite high (about 5mm more than normal pedals), so had to adjust the saddle up a bit.

 

[downhiller]

Before I bother trying any of the other IQ apps, am I right in thinking that battery percentage and current mode are the ONLY two things that it's possible to get out of the EP8 Mark? I'd seen loads of cool things on E-Bike Edge MultiField but I think I realise now that "ANT+ LEV" is something different, and something Shimano hasn't implemented?

Thank you!

(I'll still use it, battery percentage is certainly nice to have rather than the 5-bar display shown on the E7000)

 

[mark.ai]

Before I bother trying any of the other IQ apps, am I right in thinking that battery percentage and current mode are the ONLY two things that it's possible to get out of the EP8 Mark? I'd seen loads of cool things on E-Bike Edge MultiField but I think I realise now that "ANT+ LEV" is something different, and something Shimano hasn't implemented?

Thank you!

(I'll still use it, battery percentage is certainly nice to have rather than the 5-bar display shown on the E7000)

Yep Shimano have their own ANT format different from the "ANT+ LEV".
I'm not sure what Jan Capek has been able to decode from the Shimano ANT data in his apps - but I know the bluetooth data from EP8 has things like range, speed, assist percentage. So the same things which can be shown on the E7000 display.

Personally I only use the battery percentage

 

[Ross.]

Jan's Ebike field should work with the E7000 display But you're right you can't get rider power via the EP8

I'm not sure the EP8 interface to the cranks is a normal one ... I thought it required custom crank arms ...

I've been trying some power meter pedals on one of my bikes (some Garmin Rally ones) - they seem good, but the stack is quite high (about 5mm more than normal pedals), so had to adjust the saddle up a bit.

@mark.ai

Just wondering if you felt the pedals were accurate. I am new to emtbs and am upgrading the sc-5003 to sc-7000 display and was looking at pedals.

Not really sure how they work but I'm only interested in the power I put in and not the motor.

Would you recommend pedals for this?

 

[mark.ai]

@mark.ai

Just wondering if you felt the pedals were accurate. I am new to emtbs and am upgrading the sc-5003 to sc-7000 display and was looking at pedals.

Not really sure how they work but I'm only interested in the power I put in and not the motor.

Would you recommend pedals for this?

Yep they seem accurate - the power reported is similar to power meters that I have on non-e-bikes.

And using pedals works fine for me. They are easy to swap in/out as needed.