Plea to GoPro film makers

[Deleted member 2899]

There is a lot of crap film making out there I'm sorry to say. If all you do is strap a camera to your helmet or chest and ride down a trail filming it you are just another nerd on a bike peddling through the trees and in many cases simply stroking your ego by showing off your skills. A good film should contain more. It should include some context and narrative, give an idea of the location, advise people how to find a specific trail etc. etc. or even include riding advice. Don't get me wrong many of the riding skills displayed are impressive but I for one would like a little more. I've lost track of the number of times I've watched some hotshot taking in some air but by the end of the film I am no wiser. The trouble is it's all too easy these days, the filming that is not the riding. Rant over I'm going out on my bike.

Alan

 

[Gary]

Millennial, aye?

Sounds like you need to step away from your electronic devices for a while before you suffer health issues.

Enjoy your bike ride

 

[Deleted member 2899]

I'm going out on my bike soon but that's what prompted the post. I was watching loads of films to get inspiration and more importantly information with regard to the trails. After watching hours of film the information I was looking for just wasn't there.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Plenty of varied content out there. Not everyone wants to be the next James Cameron, but might want to be able to record, publish and watch back some of their epic rides for years to come.

 

[jonpress]

I pretty much film every ride I go on but I keep the footage for my own review. It can be a useful tool to identify where you can do better. Yes I’m sure there are a lot of less polished videos on you tube but not everyone has the time or facility for editing. It could be worse, we could be making videos of opening boxes. End of the day it’s your choice whether or not to watch. I must admit I’ve watched less polished videos just to get a view on somewhere new to ride.

 

[Deleted member 2899]

I pretty much film every ride I go on but I keep the footage for my own review. It can be a useful tool to identify where you can do better. Yes I’m sure there are a lot of less polished videos on you tube but not everyone has the time or facility for editing. It could be worse, we could be making videos of opening boxes. End of the day it’s your choice whether or not to watch. I must admit I’ve watched less polished videos just to get a view on somewhere new to ride.

Agreed but that's my point many of the videos could be anywhere, they are just mountain bikers cycling through trees. A bit more information would be nice. Many don't even tell you what the trail is called. It would help if they showed some of the surroundings at the start and finish to give a bit of a clue but most start and finish on the single track itself. Even the Trailforks Web pages are a bit lacking in that regard. I had to use a combination of Trailforks and Googlemaps to work out the starting point of the trail I'm looking for and I still have no idea about the "push up" return. It could/should be easier than this. I'm not really complaining, I'm grateful for what there is, just suggesting how things could be better. In my naivety I had thought that people who published stuff on YouTube wanted to pass on information and help others. After buying the bike I can't really afford the camera as well otherwise I would be tempted to try and do a better job.

Alan

 

[HikerDave]

Plenty of varied content out there. Not everyone wants to be the next James Cameron, but might want to be able to record, publish and watch back some of their epic rides for years to come.

I’ll probably never ride a bike in Sedona again because of my joint health issues but I have hours of video I shot while testing our (Garmin’s) Virb 360 video camera and enjoy watching these but I would never share an unedited full-length video.

Shared videos are best when cut down to about five minutes and annotated. They also feature a rider ahead or behind. I absolutely hate those chest-cam videos with a pair of arm-noodles prominent in the frame.

The best video I’ve ever seen of mountain biking is professional drone footage of a rider on Sedona’s Hiline trail here:

High on Hiline

 

[Gary]

I was watching loads of films to get inspiration and more importantly information with regard to the trails. After watching hours of film the information I was looking for just wasn't there.

Boo hooo...

Do you honestly think people spend hours/days/months building trails just for you?

Agreed but that's my point many of the videos could be anywhere, they are just mountain bikers cycling through trees. A bit more information would be nice. Many don't even tell you what the trail is called. It would help if they showed some of the surroundings at the start and finish to give a bit of a clue but most start and finish on the single track itself. Even the Trailforks Web pages are a bit lacking in that regard. I had to use a combination of Trailforks and Googlemaps to work out the starting point of the trail I'm looking for and I still have no idea about the "push up" return. It could/should be easier than this.
Alan

Wow!
Do you have any idea how ridiculously entitled and bratty you sound coming here and complaining that everything isn't spoon fed to you?

In my naivety

This.

Pick up a shovel... Then see how happy you are about every noddy under the sun sharing the exact location of your handbuilt trails.

 

[Deleted member 2899]

Boo hooo...

Do you think honestly people spend hours/days/months building trails just for you?



Wow!
Do you have any idea how ridiculously entitled and bratty you sound coming here and complaining that everything isn't spoon fed to you?


This.

Pick up a shovel... Then see how happy you are about every noddy under the sun sharing the exact location of your handbuilt trails.

I do help some of the guys building the local trails but you are missing the point in quite an offensive manner. I was talking about videos that show off the attributes of some trails, presumably to attract people to them, but then fail to help them do so. Not sure why you have got your knickers in a twist about that but hey ho.

 

[Gary]

It's not nastiness or petulance.
I'm not the one complaining/moaning about others film content, calling them nerds and even more bizarely slagging them off for featuring skillful riding and I'm not the one stamping my feet and ranting that they haven't given directions to their filming locations. We have no way of knowing which videos or filmers you're even moaning about BTW.

Plenty mtb videos don't share trail names/locations for good reason.
If you're genuinely friendly with your local trail builders (and help out) that's great. Your local trailbuilding/riding community is also a great place to find out about more trails and also find out any land access/owner/usage/sensitivity information so as not to jeopardise anyone's hard work by turning up somewhere you've seen on youtube etc and (unintentionally) putting the trails at risk.

Searching Youtube/Strava/trailforks for trails might seem a nice easy way to find new riding spots/trails from the comfort of your home but it'll generally only tell you half the story. Even the best "story writer" mtb filmers rarely tell you about any access issues, landowner info, history behind the trail network etc in their "edit".

You said it yourself

The trouble is it's all too easy these days

only AFAIC you have it the wrong way around.

I've just found out this week two trails I built hidden in a very quiet wood 5 minutes from here and have been maintaining for 15 years+ now have just been flattened/blocked. The reason they became an issue (with a local landowner) is because a bunch of local young keen new mtbers had found my trails and started building less subtle trails with jumps etc. next to mine. and the place has become much much busier (now visited by folk from much further afield)
I hadn't shared any video of any of these trails online and don't share Strava. I have however shown plenty others my trails on local rides. Unfortunately these people DO share their strava/insta etc. hence the spot being found by the young crew in the first place.
I'm not annoyed, they're a good bunch of kids... and actually had verbal permission from one landowner to build what they built. But I am sad at losing two trails I've ridden for as long as I've lived here.

 

[Deleted member 2899]

It's not nastiness or petulance.
I'm not the one complaining/moaning about others film content, calling them nerds and even more bizarely slagging them off for featuring skillful riding and I'm not the one stamping my feet and ranting that they haven't given directions to their filming locations. We have no way of knowing which videos or filmers you're even moaning about BTW.

Plenty mtb videos don't share trail names/locations for good reason.
If you're genuinely friendly with your local trail builders (and help out) that's great. Your local trailbuilding/riding community is also a great place to find out about more trails and also find out any land access/owner/usage/sensitivity information so as not to jeopardise anyone's hard work by turning up somewhere you've seen on youtube etc and (unintentionally) putting the trails at risk.

Searching Youtube/Strava/trailforks for trails might seem a nice easy way to find new riding spots/trails from the comfort of your home but it'll generally only tell you half the story. Even the best "story writer" mtb filmers rarely tell you about any access issues, landowner info, history behind the trail network etc in their "edit".

You said it yourself

only AFAIC you have it the wrong way around.

I've just found out this week two trails I built hidden in a very quiet wood 5 minutes from here and have been maintaining for 15 years+ now have just been flattened/blocked. The reason they became an issue (with a local landowner) is because a bunch of local young keen new mtbers had found my trails and started building less subtle trails with jumps etc. next to mine. and the place has become much much busier (now visited by folk from much further afield)
I hadn't shared any video of any of these trails online and don't share Strava. I have however shown plenty others my trails on local rides. Unfortunately these people DO share their strava/insta etc. hence the spot being found by the young crew in the first place.
I'm not annoyed, they're a good bunch of kids... and actually had verbal permission from one landowner to build what they built. But I am sad at losing two trails I've ridden for as long as I've lived here.

I think you have taken this a little too personally and taken offense when none was intended. I was talking about known trails and videos that are published, sometimes with the stated intent of sharing, but then fail to tell you where they start or finish and how to find them. And for what it's worth I have found your responses offensive

 

[Gary]

Sorry.
I'd like to make it up to. If you could be so good as to post the video I'll try researching the internet to find the beginning and end of the trail for you.
I'll then travel to the trail (in Cheltenham I assume?) and ride it for you while making a handy video guide of how to find it.

oh... hold on...

known trails

 

[Deleted member 2899]

Sorry.
I'd like to make it up to. If you could be so good as to post the video I'll try researching the internet to find the beginning and end of the trail for you.
I'll then travel to the trail (in Cheltenham I assume?) and ride it for you while making a handy video guide of how to find it.

oh... hold on...

My final word on this: Grow up

 

[Madmatt75]

Sounds like a few people fell out of bed the wrong side this morning.

 

[jerry]

no, its only one, always the same one. Always compelled to telling others off in the most derogatory fashion, regardless of how well intended and well-mannered their posts are. Provokers are best ignored, not fuelled by honoring their efforts with a reply.

 

[outerlimits]

Finding new trails is part of the adventure. Sometimes you may have to trawl through a mound of shit to find a gem. Be that, YouTube vids, trailforks, or Strava. Savour your rewards, enjoy, and don’t blab of your finds. If the info is just given to you, it’s probably been given to many, and overuse can occur and destroy a gem.
Remember this
A win without a challenge is a win without victory.
Go forth and be victorious.

 

[TheBikePilot]

I see your point to a degree @GridNorth but I encourage you to go out and just give a try as to what your asking and you'll find out how difficult and time consuming that is.

If your out for a ride with your mates stopping to give context or commentary means just that, stopping. Finding or thinking of something to say. Then often you sound a bit like an unoffical trail guide if your just up there for a spin yourself...Then you have Unclip your GoPro, do a piece to camera. Probably 3-4 takes. Re-clip your GoPro and then get back to riding. Probably 10 times in any given ride. Then you have to get home and edit it all into a pallatable story. I know you could say do the piece when your riding but go find each take from 30-40 GoPro clips which you could presumably only then do on an uninteresting fireroad. People's attention span on YouTube is very, very short. Plus that is all massive trail faff and you won't be popular with those that your riding with, or your on your own. Both of which aren't that much fun!!

So who ultimately benefits from the fruits of said labour? Your handing out somebody elses hard work (which isn't really your information to hand out), then your hard work to anyone and everyone with an internet connection who hasn't got a network or seemingly can't be bothered to find said information from other sources. That's how trails get destroyed or shut down.

Saying the name of a trail or where it is often comes with it the thorny issue of Land Access. Most trails are tolerated rather than allowed. We had a chat with the Surrey Police on Summer Ligthning just today who were very helpful but at the moment many trails are under review there due to over riding and huge jumps getting built around exisiting trails, people getting really hurt and then closure.

Everybody kind of knows even putting the woods it was filmed in is a bit of a no-no. If you do a bit of 'diggin' and asking around often you kind find where stuff was filmed but to me that's half of the fun. Your doing something not everyone else can do with an iPhone and a GPS.

I did a piece just as you mentioned and Andy the tralbuilder talks about what we are mentioning and says by all means he wants more people down there to help as well as ride but doesn't want his hard work and passion getting trashed, so didn't want the location posted. However, we put enough info in there that if you were serious about finding the place you wouldn't have to be Sherlock Holmes or Steve Arnott to get the location. I didn't get to do any riding that day simply because I had to grab so much footage to make it a 'story'. 60% of what you shoot or capture gets binned, much stuff seems good in the moment but garbage when you get it back and don't start with GoPro issues or sound issues. It's all just so dymanic and faffy when we are all out really just to ride our bikes.

Yes I see your point, but if I go out and post info on everywhere I ride it doesn't benefit the current crop of riders (and I would most likely alienate myself) and only those that want that info right now without building a network or friendship base in the area. It would seem a bit narcisstic and a cheap win to try and do that as this sport is all about the buy into the bike and the community. I found all the info and knowledge base I have in the Surrey Hills from Shop rides and building friends etc. But I only know the Surrey Hills and albeit it not that well, if I went to Affan Masts I would ask around and maybe get a guide. I wouldn't expect to be spoon fed info off the internet. If you want to just turn up and ride sick trails, go to a Bike Park or trail centre.

I'm not slamming you FYI. Just saying what your asking isn't really the vibe of the sport. If you found an amazing side street which was always empty next to a football stadium where you didn't have to pay to park would you post it all over the internet?


I did this video named the trail and location and did a review at the end, but it's a marked and public trail. You wont find people really doing that with 'off piste' stuff..


You mught find this guys channel some use:

MTB Trail Hub

 

[Deleted member 2899]

I think there is huge misunderstanding about my post and that may be because I worded it badly. In the first place I am talking about trails that are apparently well known and well traveled. They have names, they are published on TrailForks, there are numerous existing videos already showing them. What I am suggesting is that rather than simply showing hotshots coming down them at break neck speeds that some context and information be added. I'm new to all this so please forgive me if I have offended some protocol. I had assumed that if people took the trouble to publish on YouTube that they wanted there work to be recognised and appreciated but that also means that they should also accept some criticism. Anyway I have learnt my lesson and will be more careful in future. It seems the MTB community is not quite as open and friendly as I thought.

 

[MattyB]

I think there is huge misunderstanding about my post and that may be because I worded it badly. In the first place I am talking about trails that are apparently well known and well traveled. They have names, they are published on TrailForks, there are numerous existing videos already showing them. What I am suggesting is that rather than simply showing hotshots coming down them at break neck speeds that some context and information be added.

If they are well known, named and appear on sites like Trailforks/Strava etc then I am struggling to understand what more you need to know? You know where they are, you know how to get to them and you can see what they are like from the "numerous existing videos" in order to make a decision on whether you to ride them. What is missing? As pointed out by other posters above, glossy production takes a lot of time and effort so for most people with a day job it's not something they will bother with.

 

[Paul Mac]

I think there is huge misunderstanding about my post and that may be because I worded it badly. In the first place I am talking about trails that are apparently well known and well traveled. They have names, they are published on TrailForks, there are numerous existing videos already showing them. What I am suggesting is that rather than simply showing hotshots coming down them at break neck speeds that some context and information be added. I'm new to all this so please forgive me if I have offended some protocol. I had assumed that if people took the trouble to publish on YouTube that they wanted there work to be recognised and appreciated but that also means that they should also accept some criticism. Anyway I have learnt my lesson and will be more careful in future. It seems the MTB community is not quite as open and friendly as I thought.

Gridnorth, don't worry 95% of the mtb community are great guys.
I know what you meant in your post.
You should watch Bike Pilot and Rob rides mtb etc, they are aiming for the content you are after.
But what Jonny2 says is true, it takes a lot of work and effort. I tried to edit a video last week and gave up after about 4 hours, it's bloody difficult.
P. S Jonny2 keep up the good work!

 

[SquireRides]

I do quite a bit of POV, and yeah I do put it on You Tube, but mostly its a quick, raw edit to show my friends (actual, real friends, not 'followers') where to find a new trail and what to expect.

If I have the luxury of time I might add some info to show anyone else who's interested where it is. Like, stick an Open Maps screenshot up or something.

 

[Deleted member 2899]

Gridnorth, don't worry 95% of the mtb community are great guys.
I know what you meant in your post.
You should watch Bike Pilot and Rob rides mtb etc, they are aiming for the content you are after.
But what Jonny2 says is true, it takes a lot of work and effort. I tried to edit a video last week and gave up after about 4 hours, it's bloody difficult.
P. S Jonny2 keep up the good work!

Thank you. To be fair I have experienced nothing but friendly support, advice and encouragement from the MTB community, I think it's the social media community that sucks.

With regard to the vids. I'm old fashioned I thought that if you went to the trouble of publishing something it was because you wanted to pass on your knowledge/expertise. Unfortunately much of what I see is "look how good I am". I think with the guy who was quite offensive in his response, this is what struck a nerve and he took it as a personal attack.

 

[outerlimits]

Thank you. To be fair I have experienced nothing but friendly support, advice and encouragement from the MTB community, I think it's the social media community that sucks.

With regard to the vids. I'm old fashioned I thought that if you went to the trouble of publishing something it was because you wanted to pass on your knowledge/expertise. Unfortunately much of what I see is "look how good I am". I think with the guy who was quite offensive in his response, this is what struck a nerve and he took it as a personal attack.

I want a free ebike, but can it be a new S works Levo. Don’t bother me if it’s a 2 year old Levo hardtail, just cause you want to show how good you are. Cause if you want to go to the trouble of giving away free ebikes, make sure they are awesome, not just ordinary.

 

[Paul Mac]

I want a free ebike, but can it be a new S works Levo. Don’t bother me if it’s a 2 year old Levo hardtail, just cause you want to show how good you are. Cause if you want to go to the trouble of giving away free ebikes, make sure they are awesome, not just ordinary.

Oooh, I see what you've done there?

 

[Deleted member 2899]

Thanks for all the comments. I've only been at this for a couple of months so I don't really know that much about where I can get information. EMTB and links to videos seemed like a good start but I shall be a little more careful about what I say in future. I'm retired so do most of my riding mid week which means I am not exposed to many other MTBr's. For some reason TrailForks does NOT display roads on my laptop making finding the start of the trails difficult. I had to resort to using a combination of Google Maps and TrailForks which prompted me to think there must be an easier way. I stand by my comments regarding the videos however but please do not see that as a personal attack. If I have offended due to my ignorance I apologise.

 

[Dax]

I thought that if you went to the trouble of publishing something it was because you wanted to pass on your knowledge/expertise.

Youtube is a full time job these days and lots of budding youtubers just throw up content to try and get followers, so they can go professional, without realising theres a big difference between the shite they post and the channels they follow.

Regarding trail access, it's tricky. Trail builders want people to ride their trails, but not so many people that the trails get trashed or they get demolished by the land owners. There's lots of good trails out there, you've got lecky, cranham and Cleeve nearby, just go explore, bump into some locals, follow them down some trails. There's also a fod emtb fb group that organises rides.

Get the OS maps app and the trailforks app, they both work well for exploring.

Don't mind @Gary, that's what he's like. You think this is unfriendly, try mentioning that you ride emtb on singletrack world.

 

[R120]

You know the great thing about communities like this, is you reach out to other members in your area to go out riding with - that's exactly what I have been able to do with members on here, and made new friends and found new rides as a result.

The issue with the modern world is that anyone can be a creator, and that's great in many ways as it allows those who previously wouldn't have had access to the gear or contacts to make vids, but it also means that anyone can grab a camera and post up something on your tube, so you just need to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Deleted member 2899]

You know the great thing about communities like this, is you reach out to other members in your area to go out riding with - that's exactly what I have been able to do with members on here, and made new friends and found new rides as a result.

The issue with the modern world is that anyone can be a creator, and that's great in many ways as it allows those who previously wouldn't have had access to the gear or contacts to make vids, but it also means that anyone can grab a camera and post up something on your tube, so you just need to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Thank you I will try that.

 

[Deleted member 2899]

Youtube is a full time job these days and lots of budding youtubers just throw up content to try and get followers, so they can go professional, without realising theres a big difference between the shite they post and the channels they follow.

Regarding trail access, it's tricky. Trail builders want people to ride their trails, but not so many people that the trails get trashed or they get demolished by the land owners. There's lots of good trails out there, you've got lecky, cranham and Cleeve nearby, just go explore, bump into some locals, follow them down some trails. There's also a fod emtb fb group that organises rides.

Get the OS maps app and the trailforks app, they both work well for exploring.

Don't mind @Gary, that's what he's like. You think this is unfriendly, try mentioning that you ride emtb on singletrack world.

I can see Cleeve Hill from my house but I have to say compared to FOD I'm not impressed and I would rather make the journey to FOD. When I went to Cranham a few years ago, when I was just giving mountain biking a try, I was asked to leave in no uncertain terms. Leckhampton Hill looks a bit hardcore for me but thanks for the advice. I may post on this forum for riding partners as suggested.

 

[Dax]

Totally agree fod is better, Lecky alternates between steep and slippy or steep and loose, depending on the weather and Cleeve is more XC than trails, but it's a question of being able to ride from your house vs drive for an hour first.

Maybe it's time for another fod group ride @Doomanic