Pedalling e-bike when motor turned off

[Hardtail]

and that proofs 'the drag from the motor' almost doesn't exist

We all know that the motor disengages, but people seem to not realise that the larger bearings, seals, heavy axle and extra weight of the 'clutch' mechanism are all extra rotational friction. So, compared to an acoustic bike, YES, there is more resistance when pedalling an e-bike when it is off.
This rotational resistance is exponential in that it becomes greater the faster you go!

 

[gaba]

There absolutely is drag from the motor on your Levo. I basically have the same bike setup without the motor (enduro with same tires, suspension etc). There is a massive difference. It’s honestly hard for me to believe someone doesn’t notice the motor drag with the bike shut off.

 

[Cosmicchris00]

Motor on - easy peazey. Calves like marshmallow

Motor off - fit as a fiddle. Calves of concrete

 

[Wheels]

I ride (levo) seasonally so when i begin riding for the season i use assist more as im getting conditioned. After a week of riding i see my assist being used at about 10% an hour. So i ride with the assist off or in 15% assist most the time. I switch between my mtb (also 29”/ full suspension)and with the exception of riding up hills there is not a considerable difference in how they pedal.

 

[leehop71]

Hi folks
I am quite new to e-biking. When the motor is 'assistance off' it feels like I am pedalling through glue - feels like massive resistance. Is this 'psychological' after the feeling with 'assistance on'. I have a new Specialized turbo levo so I thought there was a clutch that disengaged the motor when off - so why does this feel so 'heavy'?

Hey DPS, I have a Denago City 1 with 7 speeds and my bike rides pretty much like my regular 7 speed I had before without electricity!?!

 

[speciman]

Salut les gens
Je suis assez nouveau dans le vélo électrique. Lorsque le moteur est « assistance désactivée », j'ai l'impression de pédaler à travers de la colle - c'est comme une résistance massive. Est-ce « psychologique » après le sentiment d'« assistance activée ». J'ai un nouveau turbo levo Specialized, donc j'ai pensé qu'il y avait un embrayage qui désengageait le moteur lorsqu'il était éteint - alors pourquoi cela semble-t-il si « lourd » ?

Cest juste le poid du velo

 

[Tetley]

and that proofs 'the drag from the motor' almost doesn't exist

The proof is in understanding how the motors work, and that the sprag clutch completely disengages ALL the motor and gearbox when pedalling. There is a very very tiny bit of resistance in the sprag clutch which is totally unnoticeable. All the rest is just the weight of bike and tyres, or phycological after turning the motor off after receiving assistance.

 

[Hardtail]

Hey DPS, I have a Denago City 1 with 7 speeds and my bike rides pretty much like my regular 7 speed I had before without electricity!?!

Thats a rear hub motor bike, hard to compare them, considering you are turning the 3kg hub when it is off it does not ride like your normal bike!

 

[Binhill1]

I'm with @Mikerb, why on earth ride an emtb with the motor off?

Maybe practicing for when the motor goes it's a levo after all.

 

[SwampNut]

I have a hub motor bike that weighs 110 pounds and a mid drive that weighs 52. It’s easier to pedal the hub bike without the motor.

 

[w2ge]

Wouldn’t taking off the chain and spinning the cranks give you a realistic “feel” for what drag the motor may or may not be giving?

 

[Jim1954]

Hi folks
I am quite new to e-biking. When the motor is 'assistance off' it feels like I am pedalling through glue - feels like massive resistance. Is this 'psychological' after the feeling with 'assistance on'. I have a new Specialized turbo levo so I thought there was a clutch that disengaged the motor when off - so why does this feel so 'heavy'?

I used to do long distance bicycle touring. My E-Bike weighs about as much as my loaded touring bike. It had much thinner and harder tires. Between the tires, the weight, and not being in touring shape, I found pedalling my E-Bike without power to be brutal. Even the slightest grade makes it painful.

 

[Binhill1]

I used to do long distance bicycle touring. My E-Bike weighs about as much as my loaded touring bike. It had much thinner and harder tires. Between the tires, the weight, and not being in touring shape, I found pedalling my E-Bike without power to be brutal. Even the slightest grade makes it painful.

Agree there I've toured with panniers on my Galaxy very easy going. But ebike without battery power is an absolute absolute nightmare . For the over 60s anyway

 

[Rich-H]

I hear so many people saying that there is no such thing as motor drag, apparently it's all due to weight and tyres. My experience doesn't align to that view, I bought a Gen 3 Levo at the end of last year and loved most things about it. The one thing I couldn't get on with was the brick wall I hit when riding above the limiter on more mellow terrain. I ended up swapping to a Gen 2 Levo SL 6 months later and it resolved this issue, it feels far more like a regular mtb in many respects, especially above the limiter.

Comparing three different bikes, a regular MTB at 12kg, a SL EMTB at 18kg and a FF EMTB at 22KG. I can ride my SL EMTB easily beyond the limiter, I even did a 20 mile ride without the motor and yes it was was obviously not as easy as the regular MTB (12kg vs 18kg, 120mm vs 160mm), but it really wasn't too bad and I certainly wouldn't worry about running out of battery on the SL.

 

[SwampNut]

I can ride my SL EMTB easily beyond the limiter

This is why I disabled the limiter on mine.

 

[kevtp19]

My Orbea Rise rides like a normal bike motor off, and if I'm going for a short ride I leave it off. Even did a fairly stiff climb at the w/e just for the cardio, one I don't always manage on a 12kg manual! Funny thing is if I switch off mid ride it feels like there is a resistance, but if I ride out with it off it feels normal.

A mate's ebike definitely has a lot of motor drag when switched off to the point where it's unrideable. Try before you buy.

I have an orbea rise, horrendous to ride without the motor on!!

 

[Binhill1]

I have an orbea rise, horrendous to ride without the motor on!!

I think the only folk saying it's OK would be young and super fit.

 

[Norcalsl]

I hear this all the time. In fact, most ETMB's are made to pedal with no resistance. I frequently ride my 38 lbs. Levo SL without assistance. Zero resistance.

 

[Binhill1]

I hear this all the time. In fact, most ETMB's are made to pedal with no resistance. I frequently ride my 38 lbs. Levo SL without assistance. Zero resistance.

Ok on flat but not so good on any steep hill.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

If it's any consolation I rode my analogue bike around the block & up a slight incline & then realised how stupid is was to design a bike without a motor attached.

 

[Binhill1]

If it's any consolation I rode my analogue bike around the block & up a slight incline & then realised how stupid is was to design a bike without a motor attached.

I remember meeting lads pushing bikes up Ben Nevis right at the top. It got dafter as I walked down behind them and they were still pushing them all the way down.

 

[TimC7]

I think the only folk saying it's OK would be young and super fit.

I'm 64 and find my Rise easy with zero drag for a short local circuit with short climbs and mainly flattish trails. The extra weight only becomes a pain when you've been out a few hours and tired, then it feels horrendous up any long climbs. It's all relative to how you feel and what you expect. Luckily the excellent range means I've never run out of battery so not had the horror of grinding back with zero assistance when completely knackered.

 

[Binhill1]

I'm 64 and find my Rise easy with zero drag for a short local circuit with short climbs and mainly flattish trails. The extra weight only becomes a pain when you've been out a few hours and tired, then it feels horrendous up any long climbs. It's all relative to how you feel and what you expect. Luckily the excellent range means I've never run out of battery so not had the horror of grinding back with zero assistance when completely knackered.

I did 50 miles two weeks ago and had to nurse the last 12 miles out of the battery switching on and off between climbs and flat bits. I was not much fun. Wee bit older than you but wetr still out there.. Levo .

 

[2WHLFUN]

Why buy an EMTB and ride it with the motor off??

I do it when trying to stretch the range on a big loop

 

[NoMaas]

Moderately techy 2.5 mile climb, I’ve cleaned all but one of features but never strung them all together in one ride:

Transition Smuggler recent efforts 31-32min (best ever 27min)​

Transition Relay no battery Fuza motor 34-36min​

​

I’m sure there is some additional motor resistance when powered off but I can’t feel any real difference.

 

[rzr]

Levo drag ....
(If u think it stops your from going fast )

 

[Tetley]

Edited now I've looked at the video again on a proper size screen. It originally looked as though the image was flipped, as happens with selfies. So it's not being back pedalled, but it shouldn't be making that screeching sound! Yes, it does show some slight resistance, but nothing you would notice when riding, and certainly nothing that would make it feel like you were hitting a wall at the limiter.
My 2020 Levo is silent when spinning the pedals without a chain on, or backpedalling, and apart from the very slight resistance from the bearings and sprag clutch, there is no noticeable drag, the drag in the chain and sprockets is far greater than the crank shafts.
I often ride my bike switched off when riding with others on clockwork bikes, and it just feels like riding a heavy bike.

Original post- Well, that Levo in the video is totally knackered! Once I got my head around the reversed image, it should be totally silent when back pedalling, and the pedal crank shaft has also seized on to the sprocket shaft, as it doesn't disengage when the pedals are spun backwards, ie the sprocket should not turn.
Probably another case of water ingress between the shafts, and all the bearings and sprag clutches are full of rust.

 

[rzr]

what do you mean 'knakered' ? it has NEW motor, i've done only ~50km with it. (unless Specialized only changed few internals - stripped belt etc, instead of changing whole unit).

if i put just a bit more force on a chainring then it'll disangage

 

[Tetley]

Edited now I've looked at the video again on a proper size screen. It originally looked as though the image was flipped, as happens with selfies. So it's not being back pedalled, but it shouldn't be making that screeching sound! Yes, it does show some slight resistance, but nothing you would notice when riding, and certainly nothing that would make it feel like you were hitting a wall at the limiter.
My 2020 Levo is silent when spinning the pedals without a chain on, or backpedalling, and apart from the very slight resistance from the bearings and sprag clutch, there is no noticeable drag, the drag in the chain and sprockets is far greater than the crank shafts.
I often ride my bike switched off when riding with others on clockwork bikes, and it just feels like riding a heavy bike.

 

[jroberts]

I have a 2023 Turbo Levo SL Comp carbon and I have been having some trouble with it. On Eco setting or off, there is noticeable drag. Hard to pedal easily. My range is limited to less than 20 miles (in Trail, I never use turbo for range considerations). So I get concerned about running out of battery and trying to pedal home with so much resistance.

This thread makes me suspect some problem--but the LBS thinks it is fine. My friends with the same bike tried it out and think something is wrong.

Is there some systemic problem I can fix, or have the bike shop look at (again!)? It still has warranty. I find myself not riding it as it is a, well, drag.