Pedal strikes

[sniffy]

Had the same problem on my Turbo Levo, fitted 180mm forks, transformed the bike and stopped pedal strikes

 

[R120]

A lot of the original threads on here where born out of the fact that a lot of older EMTB’s came stock with 175mm cranks - when climbing technical off-piste terrain at a faster speed than you previously would have you will get pedal strikes.

A lot of us changed to shorter cranks due to this, but as previously mentioned adjusting to and refining your riding skills is the main solicitor.

However a lot of the latest EMTB’s now come with 165/160mm cranks, meaning that it is less of an issue out the box and for some people may never be.

As an FYI a lot of the pros run shorter cranks on their EMTB’s, without being able to recall specifics I remember a few bike checks where they are running 160mm, e.g Fabien Barel on his Canyon

 

[Peaky Rider]

No I have never measured the Q factor on any bike, but thanks for giving me the answer as it will save me the bother.

The rest of your post implies that you think I have a problem with pedal strikes, I don't. I was reacting to those that were saying that pedal strikes on an emtb were an issue. It hadn't been a problem for me and I was wondering why it was a problem for others. As always I try to learn and asked a few questions.

Currently, most of my miles are on relatively benign trails in the woods. But I have been all over; Peaks (Beast, Jacobs Ladder), Antur Stiniog, the French Alps to name only a few, and yes I've had the odd pedal strike. But as I said in my post - not enough to want to shorten my crank length.

No Steve (this is the problem with typed communications) only the paragraph re 'Q' factor was particular to you, the rest was just my thoughts on pedal strikes which is a particularly sore point as one has just cost me £50.

PS I think you might find your cranks are already quite short at 165mm, they are on my Jam 2 anyway.

 

[steve_sordy]

...........

PS I think you might find your cranks are already quite short at 165mm, they are on my Jam 2 anyway.

Yes they are 165. The point I was making in my post #12 was that despite the shorter emtb cranks, my ground clearance from pedal to floor is much less on my clockwork bike than my emtb, and I hardly ever got pedal strikes on the clockwork bike. You now tell me that that Q factor is the same on both bikes (I still haven't measured either of them yet). So that leaves.....what? It looks like it is the way in which the bike is ridden that is causing lots of pedal strikes.

 

[Gary]

it leaves a rider who is overthinking the issue massively and pedailling into things more on one bike than the other

Possibly... just possibly... as he's going quicker towards said objects for less effort.
Maybe he could use that extra energy from decreased effort to concentrate on and read the trail ahead faster?


Different travel/sag/leverage curve/support in suspension also causes different bikes to compress different amounts. but this is irrelevant if we're talikning about a rider with good riding technique who's used to the bike

 

[steve_sordy]

it leaves a rider who is overthinking the issue massively and pedailling into things more on one bike than the other

Possibly... just possibly... as he's going quicker towards said objects for less effort.
Maybe he could use that extra energy from decreased effort to concentrate on and read the trail ahead faster?


Different travel/sag/leverage curve/support in suspension also causes different bikes to compress different amounts. but this is irrelevant if we're talikning about a rider with good riding technique who's used to the bike

It is not me that has a problem with pedal strikes. It is me that is trying to understand why emtb riders seem to have a problem with pedal strikes. I started from the assumption that it was nothing to do with the rider. I have come to the conclusion that it is the rider not the bike.

 

[Gary]

 

[Mr CRUD]

Well I hit a left crank so hard on a rock that I bent the 160mm XT crank. No damage to the Shimano motor, which was impressive. I took it off and bent it straight in the vice, good as new (apart from the vice marks). I really rate the Shimano setup, I've put it through some serious punishment, 1500km offroad pretty much 90% of the time in full boost, and had no problems. No play in the motor either.

 

[steve_sordy]

Steve

I'm sure you already know this, apologies if you have already mentioned it, but the Q factor on your Focus and all Shimano Steps bikes is the same as non e-bikes.
...........

Not mine it isn't.
I finally got around to measuring the Q factor on my Focus Jam2 and my Whyte T30.
Focus 180 mm
Whyte 167 mm

I was surprised as I hadn't noticed any difference.
I had assigned the lack of knee pain down to the "e" in emtb. It never occurred to me that the wider Q factor might have something to do with it. But it's only a quarter of an inch per side, so maybe Q factor is nothing to do with it!

 

[Peaky Rider]

Not mine it isn't.
I finally got around to measuring the Q factor on my Focus Jam2 and my Whyte T30.
Focus 180 mm
Whyte 167 mm

I was surprised as I hadn't noticed any difference.
I had assigned the lack of knee pain down to the "e" in emtb. It never occurred to me that the wider Q factor might have something to do with it. But it's only a quarter of an inch per side, so maybe Q factor is nothing to do with it!

Paragraph from MBR review.

"While all that is very clever, Shimano is claiming a number of benefits for the E8000 over its competitors. The first is that the system has a Q-factor (the distance between the tips of the crank arms) that’s identical to a standard chainset. This means a much more natural feeling pedalling position, something that’s immediately noticeable when setting off."

 

[Gyro]

Hi there,
Easy fix, just do what I did.
180mm Lyriks, Cane Creek DB gives 162mm rear travel (well it did until the shaft snapped), 160mm cranks (155mm were too short), all this equals a bottom bracket 20mm higher than stock.

 

[steve_sordy]

Paragraph from MBR review.

"While all that is very clever, Shimano is claiming a number of benefits for the E8000 over its competitors. The first is that the system has a Q-factor (the distance between the tips of the crank arms) that’s identical to a standard chainset. This means a much more natural feeling pedalling position, something that’s immediately noticeable when setting off."

Now there's a mystery!

 

[Gary]

FFS. Do you own more than one pair of shoes?
And if so do you trip over every kerb/step wearing a pair with a 5mm thicker sole /insole?
The human body is amazing and self calibrated to avoid collision the more physical activity it does. Its the same riding a bike.

 

[Peaky Rider]

FFS. Do you own more than one pair of shoes?
And if so do you trip over every kerb/step wearing a pair with a 5mm thicker sole /insole?
The human body is amazing and self calibrated to avoid collision the more physical activity it does. Its the same riding a bike.

Yeh! But what's the point of a forum if you can't talk bollocks, you should know that more than anyone.

 

[Gary]

Ah.. sorry.

get a fatbike.
Fatbikes all have at least a 100mm BB shells and chainstay clearance for at least a 4" tyre means Q-factor is crazy wide.
put standard 26" wheels on it with 2.2 tyres. thus lowering the BB height by 2"
leave the 175mm cranks (all fatbikes seem to have) on it and fit big wide flat pedals.
Ride it every day for a week. everywhere you'd normally ride.
you won't get pedal strikes anymore.

now the Fatbike has served its purpose kill it with fire!

#NextLevelBollocks

 

[Peaky Rider]

Ah.. sorry.

get a fatbike.
Fatbikes all have at least a 100mm BB shells and chainstay clearance for at least a 4" tyre means Q-factor is crazy wide.
put standard 26" wheels on it with 2.2 tyres. thus lowering the BB height by 2"
leave the 175mm cranks (all fatbikes seem to have) on it and fit big wide flat pedals.
Ride it every day for a week. everywhere you'd normally ride.
you won't get pedal strikes anymore.

now the Fatbike has served its purpose kill it with fire!

#NextLevelBollocks

Seriously "next level".

 

[DeeJay88]

I ride with my Mate and I would complain about Peddle Strikes - he was on a 2014 Scott Spark with 26" wheels - I on my Focus Jam2 E-Bike and he would say it's your bad technique - now he has a 2018 Scot 920 29er - Slacker frame, longer wheelbase and his pedal Stricks have increased a lot - I'm waiting for my 165 cranks to arrive also I read a pro was using narrower peddles also to improve this issue

 

[Gary]

The guy you are talking about is Adam Brayton.
Brayton rides an E sommet which has a far lower BB than your bike and he runs narrower pedal axles because he likes to corner properly low.
Not because he can't time a pedal stroke or keep his feet in the correct position or avoid obsticles.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Blueskycycling.com here in the US has shorter shimano cranks arms, 160, 165, 170 and 175mm. I didn't know that the FC-8000 was available below 165 and ordered one for my Focus Jam2 C. Only $35.00 USD

 

[KenX]

For sure, when I started E-biking, I got more pedal strikes than before mostly due to as Dax says, I was pedalling through terrain that I either would have ratcheted through or stopped........
Now, with 155 cranks and a more "aware" technique they are a rare occurence.......

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

For sure, when I started E-biking, I got more pedal strikes than before mostly due to as Dax says, I was pedalling through terrain that I either would have ratcheted through or stopped........
Now, with 155 cranks and a more "aware" technique they are a rare occurence.......

I still get them with 170mm cranks in rocky sections and the shock set to open and while rare I'm thinking the 160mm cranks will help some. Setting the shock at the medium point does help a lot.

 

[RickBullotta]

These guys will make you a custom fork crown race for $25. Considerably cheaper than a new fork for raising your bottom bracket and slackening the bike slightly.

Extended Crown Race for Fat Bike Suspension Fork Clearance - Custom Mountain Bike Parts | Custom Mountain Bike Parts for MTB Riders, by MTB Riders

 

[HORSPWR]

Blueskycycling.com here in the US has shorter shimano cranks arms, 160, 165, 170 and 175mm. I didn't know that the FC-8000 was available below 165 and ordered one for my Focus Jam2 C. Only $35.00 USD

Do you have a link because when I look the 8000 and 8050 cranks are'nt available in anything less than 165mm and not at the prices you state!

 

[outerlimits]

I just had to extend the Q factor on my Levo a fair bit as my balls kept rubbing on my inner thigh. It’s at 780mm wide now so as long as my bars fit through the trees the feet will follow. Had to change the tyres tho as I could not lean the bike over enough to engage the cornering lugs, without striking the pedals.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

Do you have a link because when I look the 8000 and 8050 cranks are'nt available in anything less than 165mm and not at the prices you state!

I'll keep you posted. It says 160mm and 5 in stock but I just received a response that they are out and had to "re-order", lol. I'm expecting them to say only 165mm is available very soon and I'll just try to get those. Here is the link: Shimano Steps FC-E8000 MTB E-Bike Crank Arms

Update: Bluesky sent me the wrong crank arms today, 175mm instead of 160mm. The part number on the 160mm size is AFCE8000MX and I've seen them on French, German and Japanese websites so I'm pretty sure they do exist. These are not the hollow tech style but solid crank arms. I heard from Blueskycycling that they are sending out the right one and I will post a pic of it when I receive it.

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

I was beginning to wonder if these even existed but here they are: 160mm FC-E8000 crank arms! Only about $35.00 USD.

 

[ian6354]

I was beginning to wonder if these even existed but here they are: 160mm FC-E8000 crank arms! Only about $35.00 USD. View attachment 22140

Looking for a set myself.

 

[cjm_wales]

Just thought I'd update the thread.

Having ridden a lot since posting this a year ago, I'm happy to report that (albeit with a different bike) pedal strikes are a thing of the past, pretty much.

For the past 3 weeks I've been riding my local forest trails almost daily. I'm now very comfortable attacking the roots-into-rock garden section that always used to give me problems.

The key has been pedalling strategically (obviously!), line selection, level pedals over the obstacles, and keeping relaxed and supple on the bike in the attack position, so it can move laterally or vertically with minimal resistance, taking the hits through my core and quads rather than keeping the bike weighted too much.

It's very satisfying.

 

[Swissrider]

There are a couple of factors that haven’t been mentioned so far. First of all, nobody has mentioned pedal width. I’ve used SPDs for years as I now feel insecure without them. In winter I change to flats (so I can wear warm boots) and have many more pedal strikes, especially in narrow runnels or narrow paths crossing steep slopes. So, just having smaller pedals can reduce strikes. A big debate in EMTB circles is whether or not it’s a good thing that power continues for a second or two after you stop pedalling. Whilst not going into the rights and wrongs of this, once one gets used to using the technique, one can use it to reduce pedal strikes. It’s just a pedalling hesitation, stopping the pedal going down to the bottom of its stroke, avoiding a rock or root or whatever, whilst the power of the motor keeps you going. It’s especially useful on a steep ascent and one of the many things one can do on an ebike which is very difficult on an analogue bike.

 

[p3eps]

To me the most obvious thing is being able to get places you wouldn’t have managed on a regular bike.

I find myself attempting, and a lot of the time succeeding to climb sections that I would normally just have leapt off and pushed up.
Some of these sections are steep and rocky - and the ‘perfect line’ doesn’t exist when going up!
As you’re going up, you can’t really back off or time your pedal strokes because it’s an uphill crawl... so you have to try and avoid the rocks. Sometimes, a tyre will slip and you’ll end up slightly off where you wanted to be... and *scrape*!
I am getting better with more practice, but I still get one now and again. I’ll be gutted the first time I scrape my new ‘oil slick’ HT ANS-10 pedals as they’re just so pretty ?