Answered Pedal skipping !!

[Jaspy]

So after experiencing a few pedal skips on my last couple rides I have found a few problems. The rear cassette nut was completely loose, and all the bearings are shot. Easy enough but the hub ratchet ring s loose , how on earth do I tighten it up or remove it ? I have a feeling I am going to be needing a new hub or entire wheel. Any ideas ?

 

[VWsurfbum]

So need to know a few things here, What hub is it? how is the freehub retained? are all the pawls still in place?
Should be an easy fix.

 

[Jaspy]

So need to know a few things here, What hub is it? how is the freehub retained? are all the pawls still in place?
Should be an easy fix.

Hey the hub is some generic cheepo according to my lbs. As you can see from the pic I have already removed the freehub(pulls off)and all bearings. The three pawls are good condition. The hub ratchet and ring can be rotated about 5 degrees and then locks.
This is on my 10 month old YDX Pro with under 600km (400 miles).

 

[Coolcmsc]

So, this looks like a DT Swiss 3 Pawl hub as found in the basic 370 hub for example. Obviously, I can’t be certain, but a good LBS should spot this immediately - I saw what you were advised….

Some were sold as generic off-label, so it could still be DTSwiss. The free-hub pulling off is a clue, but not definitive. I’ve put some photos to explain why I think this is off-label DTSwiss.
I think it’s a new hub at miminum if that lock ring thingy’s thread is stripped in the hub body.

But read on, just in case the thread’s OK

Below, I’ve mentioned a tool. They’re not cheap, but that good LBS that would recognise this would also likely have the DT Swiss tool. Fixing this may not be financially viable unless you get some paid help or you find somebody with that tool and the thread is OK.
You can find cheap versions of this tool and new rings on eBay. But buy from the US or Canada (I see you’re in BC) as some ‘overseas’ ones are useless cast iron fakes - the U.K. ones are likely to be OK.
To take the lock ring out, use the special tool. It fits into those teeth. It’s turned with a spanner or held in a vice whilst turning the whole wheel.
You can buy a replacement 3 Pawl ring nut if the hub’s thread isn’t ruined. I‘m not aware of a way to repair the thread in the hub - I can’t see how it could be re-tapped.
If the thread is ok AND you can replace those bearings at a good price AND the rest of the wheel is a decent one AND is in good shape, you could also convert this to the new DTSwiss LN Ratchet system with the conversion kit recently released…. That needs a second (expensive, unless you buy a cheaper version from IceToolz or whatever) tool to put in the new lock-ring.
OR, that LBS should have this second tool
The conversion kit is available with three spline counts in aluminium. And there’s a steel version., Whichever, you need to specify for SRAM or Shimano cassettes. The steel versions with the middle spline count lasts longest and the Alu with the high spline count wears fastest, but sounds best
Assuming the rest of the wheel and hub are decent, then taking into account the cost of a new wheel (however built), a repair, even with the LN ratchet upgrade, is the cheapest option if that thread is intact and your LBS has the two tools as you can ask them to just take out the old ring and put in the new (10 mins work). If not, probably a new hub at a minimum…..

Good luck!

A generic off-label 3 Pawl DT Swiss hub.

A closeup of that lock ring (hopefully the thread it’s in is OK….)



A DT Swiss 3 Pawl Shimano free hub for the cassette (it pulls off the hub). The SRAM version looks different where the cassette is slid on.

The tool to remove the lock ring thingy ()

 

[Jaspy]

So, this looks like a DT Swiss 3 Pawl hub as found in the basic 370 hub for example. Obviously, I can’t be certain, but a good LBS should spot this immediately - I saw what you were advised….

Some were sold as generic off-label, so it could still be DTSwiss. The free-hub pulling off is a clue, but not definitive. I’ve put some photos to explain why I think this is off-label DTSwiss.
I think it’s a new hub at miminum if that lock ring thingy’s thread is stripped in the hub body.

But read on, just in case the thread’s OK

Below, I’ve mentioned a tool. They’re not cheap, but that good LBS that would recognise this would also likely have the DT Swiss tool. Fixing this may not be financially viable unless you get some paid help or you find somebody with that tool and the thread is OK.
You can find cheap versions of this tool and new rings on eBay. But buy from the US or Canada (I see you’re in BC) as some ‘overseas’ ones are useless cast iron fakes - the U.K. ones are likely to be OK.
To take the lock ring out, use the special tool. It fits into those teeth. It’s turned with a spanner or held in a vice whilst turning the whole wheel.
You can buy a replacement 3 Pawl ring nut if the hub’s thread isn’t ruined. I‘m not aware of a way to repair the thread in the hub - I can’t see how it could be re-tapped.
If the thread is ok AND you can replace those bearings at a good price AND the rest of the wheel is a decent one AND is in good shape, you could also convert this to the new DTSwiss LN Ratchet system with the conversion kit recently released…. That needs a second (expensive, unless you buy a cheaper version from IceToolz or whatever) tool to put in the new lock-ring.
OR, that LBS should have this second tool
The conversion kit is available with three spline counts in aluminium. And there’s a steel version., Whichever, you need to specify for SRAM or Shimano cassettes. The steel versions with the middle spline count lasts longest and the Alu with the high spline count wears fastest, but sounds best
Assuming the rest of the wheel and hub are decent, then taking into account the cost of a new wheel (however built), a repair, even with the LN ratchet upgrade, is the cheapest option if that thread is intact and your LBS has the two tools as you can ask them to just take out the old ring and put in the new (10 mins work). If not, probably a new hub at a minimum…..

Good luck!

A generic off-label 3 Pawl DT Swiss hub.
View attachment 73711


A closeup of that lock ring (hopefully the thread it’s in is OK….)
View attachment 73712


A DT Swiss 3 Pawl Shimano free hub for the cassette (it pulls off the hub). The SRAM version looks different where the cassette is slid on.
View attachment 73713


The tool to remove the lock ring thingy ()
View attachment 73714

View attachment 73710

Coolcmsc You are The best ! Your response is absolutely splendid, thank you so much for all your help and time on this for me.

Now to update on my dilemma, after much checking I happened to notice a number was on the freehub which confirmed what my LBS said looks like it’s indeed junk… I have a Syncros Formula FM 521 hub which are apparently used across the board on many brands of ebikes. I was told this is the way mfger’s keep costs down. Build a decent bike then put junky wheels on it. I did find a rebuild kit from here ;

Syncros Formula ECT-148S Rear Hub Repair Kit | Westbrook Cycles

<p>Rear hub repair kit for Formula ECT-148S hubs.</p> <p>Compatible Scott models:</p> <ul> <li>Axis eRide 2019</li> <li>Axis Evo eRide 2019</li> <li>Contessa Genius eRide 2019</li> <li>Contessa Spark eRide 2019</li> <li>Contessa Strike eRide 2

www.westbrookcycles.co.uk

So I can salvage the wheel for now and am looking into buying a complete wheel set, unfortunately my choice of wheels won’t be available until late Spring of next year !!
I am looking at DT Swiss H 1900 Spline 27.5 35mm, 148 boost , Shimano. So I guess I am now looking for suggestions as to what other brands are great and available ! Thanks again for your help, cheers.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Coolcmsc You are The best ! Your response is absolutely splendid, thank you so much for all your help and time on this for me.

Now to update on my dilemma, after much checking I happened to notice a number was on the freehub which confirmed what my LBS said looks like it’s indeed junk… I have a Syncros Formula FM 521 hub which are apparently used across the board on many brands of ebikes. I was told this is the way mfger’s keep costs down. Build a decent bike then put junky wheels on it. I did find a rebuild kit from here ;

Syncros Formula ECT-148S Rear Hub Repair Kit | Westbrook Cycles

<p>Rear hub repair kit for Formula ECT-148S hubs.</p> <p>Compatible Scott models:</p> <ul> <li>Axis eRide 2019</li> <li>Axis Evo eRide 2019</li> <li>Contessa Genius eRide 2019</li> <li>Contessa Spark eRide 2019</li> <li>Contessa Strike eRide 2

www.westbrookcycles.co.uk

So I can salvage the wheel for now and am looking into buying a complete wheel set, unfortunately my choice of wheels won’t be available until late Spring of next year !!
I am looking at DT Swiss H 1900 Spline 27.5 35mm, 148 boost , Shimano. So I guess I am now looking for suggestions as to what other brands are great and available ! Thanks again for your help, cheers.

That looks like a good solution at an excellent price: great find!
I hope you get lots of good suggestions about a new wheel set. I’ve said enough, but I can’t resist adding that for an eeb, I’d avoid carbon rims and the internals of hubs are best picked for durability than ‘sound’ or degrees of rotation at engagement.
Good luck!

 

[Jaspy]

Thanks , I absolutely agree with you ! Overbuilt is always better than under. But in these times finding anything half decent is pretty near impossible. Having even one day without riding kills me
Heck all I want to do is ride my face off.
Cheers

 

[Mikerb]

Your bike is surely still under warranty so why are the LBS not dealing with it as such!!

There is nothing inherently wrong with the formula hub/freehub assembly. Specialized Levos used them up until late 2020.....but it does require good maintenance. Changing bearings on both the hub and freehub is cheap and relatively easy to do and pawls plus spring can be changed using a DT Swiss £10 kit.
Your only issue is the ratchet ring. I dont know if it is a press fit or threaded. If threaded and the thread is undamaged it merely needs tightening. The action of the freehub tightens it in use anyway. If it is a press fit and loose then the hub is toast.

Regardless it should be covered under warranty.

You also need to understand why the freehub failed. The damage has likely been caused either by the cassette lock nut coming loose or a bearing in the freehub collapsing due to water/dirt ingress.

 

[Jaspy]

Your bike is surely still under warranty so why are the LBS not dealing with it as such!!

There is nothing inherently wrong with the formula hub/freehub assembly. Specialized Levos used them up until late 2020.....but it does require good maintenance. Changing bearings on both the hub and freehub is cheap and relatively easy to do and pawls plus spring can be changed using a DT Swiss £10 kit.
Your only issue is the ratchet ring. I dont know if it is a press fit or threaded. If threaded and the thread is undamaged it merely needs tightening. The action of the freehub tightens it in use anyway. If it is a press fit and loose then the hub is toast.

Regardless it should be covered under warranty.

You also need to understand why the freehub failed. The damage has likely been caused either by the cassette lock nut coming loose or a bearing in the freehub collapsing due to water/dirt ingress.

Thanks for the additional information mikerb, I understand and agree. I am repairing the unit and will be looking for an unobtainium replacement, it’s going to be a while . I just hope this one will last til Spring.
Cheers
Oh about warranty work, the LBS’s are scrambling trying to get parts, bikes can be down for months. I just do whatever it takes to get back in the saddle the quickest . Less hassle, time and headache’s

 

[jcheco59]

Hi, did you solved this issue? Im having the same problem, the Ratchet ring is 21t and the dt swiss is 24,so I don't think they are compatible. The rebuild kit does not bring the Ratchet, at least is not in the picture. Any suggestions on were I can get the Ratchet ring? Been looking all over online and nothing have 21t. Thanks

 

[Mikerb]

the engagement angle 24t 36t etc refers to the number of teeth on the mating faces of the 2 ratchets.....not the hub ratchet ring.

 

[jcheco59]

the engagement angle 24t 36t etc refers to the number of teeth on the mating faces of the 2 ratchets.....not the hub ratchet ring.

This is my Ratchet, it has 21 teeth, and I can't find it online, it's starting to wear and would like to replace it.

Thanks

 

[Mikerb]

This is my Ratchet, it has 21 teeth, and I can't find it online, it's starting to wear and would like to replace it.

Thanks

View attachment 109815

ah ok...sorry I thought you were referring to the DT Swiss ratchet system. Your ring nut is for a pawl freehub. If indeed the part is available you will need to identify the hub first. Do you know what wheel hub it is?? If it is something like Formula you probably have to get a replacement hub and get it laced into your wheel since it is usually OEM only with no retail supply. It is normally only brands like DT Swiss etc that sell component parts of their hubs.

 

[jcheco59]

ah ok...sorry I thought you were referring to the DT Swiss ratchet system. Your ring nut is for a pawl freehub. If indeed the part is available you will need to identify the hub first. Do you know what wheel hub it is?? If it is something like Formula you probably have to get a replacement hub and get it laced into your wheel since it is usually OEM only with no retail supply. It is normally only brands like DT Swiss etc that sell component parts of their hubs.

Is a formula ect148s 148x12mm boost, the hub is an Fh-521 a shimano HG type. And yes is OEM .

 

[Mikerb]

Is a formula ect148s 148x12mm boost, the hub is an Fh-521 a shimano HG type. And yes is OEM .

to be brutally honest you may be better off in the long run getting a new hub. The kit you have is OK...until it is not......then almost impossible to repair. You may find the freehub online somewhere but its a search.........the hub.......even harder. If you wheel is OK get something like a DT Swiss 350/Hope Fortus hub laced into it. Alternatively just replace the complete wheel if you can find a deal for a rear only.

 

[jcheco59]

to be brutally honest you may be better off in the long run getting a new hub. The kit you have is OK...until it is not......then almost impossible to repair. You may find the freehub online somewhere but its a search.........the hub.......even harder. If you wheel is OK get something like a DT Swiss 350/Hope Fortus hub laced into it. Alternatively just replace the complete wheel if you can find a deal for a rear only.

Thanks, I know I will have to do it, just delaying the inevitable. Counting that EMTB place more torque on the cassette and the hub, what will be your choice of rear hub, i normally deal with a lot of mud most of the year.

 

[Mikerb]

Both of my bikes have DT Swiss Hybrid 1700 wheelsets...............350 hubs. All aspects of the hybrid series is upgraded and strengthened both in choice of material and material thickness to cope with E bike MTB use. I have found the hub/freehub assembly ( mine is the XD freehub and ratchet system but you can get Shiman HG and Microspline options) need minimal maintenance and is well sealed against mud and water etc. I service mine twice a year.

 

[jcheco59]

Both of my bikes have DT Swiss Hybrid 1700 wheelsets...............350 hubs. All aspects of the hybrid series is upgraded and strengthened both in choice of material and material thickness to cope with E bike MTB use. I have found the hub/freehub assembly ( mine is the XD freehub and ratchet system but you can get Shiman HG and Microspline options) need minimal maintenance and is well sealed against mud and water etc. I service mine twice a year.

Thans a lot!!!