Out of warranty shimano repairs

[jimbob]

Maybe we should all start a petition.

Or send a link to this thread to Shimano?

You would think they look at forums like this given the user base to gauge reactions etc. Are there any shimano reps on this forum?

 

[steve_sordy]

Or send a link to this thread to Shimano?

............. Are there any shimano reps on this forum?

If there are, I'm sure they would keep their head down.

 

[Dirtnvert]

My Shimano E8000 is 10 months out of warranty, and is now giving E010 errors intermittently but with increasing frequency. Asked my LBS if Madison would give a discount on a replacement motor. Madison told him they would inspect the motor if returned to them and may offer a discount but wouldn't say how much. All LBS work is chargeable now so it will probably cost at least £100 remove & refit a motor.
Does anyone have any idea if the discount is likely to be worth it?
I have recently used Stunlocker to help try & clear the error msgs but I have never up rated it in any way.

Take it out yourself and drop it off at the lbs. Its super ez, just dont drop the motor. With most of them you just take out 4 of the motor mount bolts. Loosen the remaining 2 then swing it out and unplug 2 wires and unscrew a 3rd. One wire is a quick connect so you may need a 3rd hand to depress it before you pull it out. The other 2 you should use the small plastic shimano connector tool so you dont stress the wire. The last one is just a phillips screw driver. I do it with the bike upside down on the floor. Literally takes 15 minutes. Take a pic and hopefully you can get a new motor and reinstall it from the pic

 

[ggrin]

Thanks for that. I have previously swung motor down to get new gear cable installed, so will maybe give it a go. Do you need anything special to fit new motor, or does it just drop back in?

 

[Spiff]

You have to configure some parameters, like "Motor Angle" , gears and "Wheel circunference", just copy the values from old motor. The easiest way is to use APP STUNLOCKER

 

[Matteo Bikee Bike]

Hi Everybody,

I'm pasting my intro from the newby section.

Just to give you a little background about me, I'm the founder and owner of Bikee Bike, the Italian startup of ebike motors. I'm the motor engineer, and I'm in the field of electric motors since 2009, with more than 200 projects streamlined.

With Bikee Bike, we are about to launch our new product on the market, the Lightest ( see here: www.lightest.bike ).

That motor can be fit either as retrofit to convert your bike or fit as OEM components ( just as other motors like Bosch, Shimano, Brose...).

From the next year you should start to see some ebikes with that motor on.

The main reason that prompted me to join the forum ( aside that it is a beatiful forum ) was that some ebikers with Shimano motors ( and others with Bosch motors) on their bikes asked for the Lightest as replacement after that the warranty is expired. Then I saw this thread.

We can actually retrofit Shimano and Bosch frames with the Lightest motor thanks to a motor mount which is compatible with Shimano fixing points and which integrates the bottom bracket. See below pictures.

Motor mount adapter

Lightest motor on Bosch frame

Lightest motor on Shimano frame, without cover on the left, and with cover

We haven't yet optimized the design for manufacturing, so I joined to understand if we can support you in that type of installation. In particular, my goal is to understand how many people have this problem ( not finding a standard motor for their warranty-expired bicycles) and what's their target price . That will help us in deciding what's the most cost effective production technology for the motor mount, and thus its price. For the price of the motor itself, you can check on lightest.bike directly.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions,
Matteo

 

[Doomanic]

What battery does it use?

 

[Sapientiea]

I want reliability, serviceability and price in that order of importance. I think most will also find it important that the motor is quiet and has enough torque (70-90nm). Do you have any specs of the motor?

In the last picture it shows the chain not engaging the chain-ring at the top. Is that not leading to rider torque distribution over less chainring teeth and thereby more wear?

 

[joxelitor]

Have you decoded the communication protocol between battery and motor so we could the original Shimano battery with this new motor?

 

[Matteo Bikee Bike]

What battery does it use?

The motor can work with any battery, 36V for the 250W, and 48V for the 500W version and above, up to the 1000W version.

See specs here:

The important thing is that the battery can supply enough current to reach the max motor power of the version you choose.

 

[Matteo Bikee Bike]

I want reliability, serviceability and price in that order of importance. I think most will also find it important that the motor is quiet and has enough torque (70-90nm). Do you have any specs of the motor?

In the last picture it shows the chain not engaging the chain-ring at the top. Is that not leading to rider torque distribution over less chainring teeth and thereby more wear?

Thanks for your feedback. We designed the motor to be very serviceable: you can basically change any part of the motor without taking it down from the bike frame. The part count of the motor is very low. For the specs, see the previous post, it can reach 90Nm.

About the chain: the system is similar to Rocky Mountain. The 90% of the torque is transmitted by the first 8 teeth of the chainring, so we didn't see any difference from standard chain wrapping.

 

[Matteo Bikee Bike]

Have you decoded the communication protocol between battery and motor so we could the original Shimano battery with this new motor?

Hi, no, we haven't. That's why I'm here: to understand if it's worthy to spend time to solve these problems. On the bike we converted, we simply bypassed the BMS mosfet of the battery, so that the microchip in the battery cannot cutoff the power output. That's a very easy operation, and since the battery shouldn't be under warranty...

 

[Doomanic]

Have you decoded the communication protocol between battery and motor so we could the original Shimano battery with this new motor?

Hi, no, we haven't. That's why I'm here: to understand if it's worthy to spend time to solve these problems.

As a consumer, I would say that it would be worth the time but I have no idea how time consuming it would be.

 

[Sapientiea]

Hi, no, we haven't. That's why I'm here: to understand if it's worthy to spend time to solve these problems. On the bike we converted, we simply bypassed the BMS mosfet of the battery, so that the microchip in the battery cannot cutoff the power output. That's a very easy operation, and since the battery shouldn't be under warranty...

Well if I cannot use the motor with my current battery it means you need to supply a battery that fits (geometry) my bike right? There are quite a lot of frame designs, unless you want to make a copy off all the batteries no-one can use your motor to replace an existing motor. So I would say it is paramount that you would get this working.
If one has also to buy a battery from you and the total price is higher than for example the Shimano motor alone....

I really do like the idea

P.S. it would also mean:
- New connections to control the motor (i.e. replacing Shimano switch)
- Installing a standard bottom bracket (if I understand correctly)
- ...?

 

[JetSetDemo]

Invest the time. You have done so much work already that you might as well complete the design process and add a custome adapter so the controller and BMS will work with the motor.
This is about making the system see the new motor as if it was the original right, as long as it thinks it’s what is controlling or sending power to then it should function.

good luck with all this.

 

[ggrin]

Depends what you mean by "worth it?"
Best case scenario Madison decide to replace your motor FOC and all you'll end up paying for is labour to your LBS for removal/fitting. Worst case you'll be looking at paying full RRP for a new motor plus the labour charge for removal, fitting and shipping your broken out of warranty motor back. You're not really being hard done by even if the outcome were to be the latter.

Your only real alternative is to have it sent back to the LBS (at your cost) and repaired by a third party

No one I can find is repairing Shimano e8000 motors. Shimano should at least supply spare parts to allow third party repairers to do out of warranty repairs at a reasonable cost without throwing away a repairable motor. A new EU directive mandates that products are repairable for at least 10 years after first coming to market.

 

[StuE]

No one I can find is repairing Shimano e8000 motors. Shimano should at least supply spare parts to allow third party repairers to do out of warranty repairs at a reasonable cost without throwing away a repairable motor. A new EU directive mandates that products are repairable for at least 10 years after first coming to market.

It's for this reason that I won't buy another ebike with a Shimano motor, how hard would it be for Shimano to set up proper repair/service centres

 

[Gary]

new EU directive

And millions of pricks voted to leave the EU

But. Yeah.

 

[DJ57UMP]

@VWsurfbum you seen this?

 

[stressballsteve]

sounds like a great idea, but as others have said, would need to use the existing battery as all bikes use different battery size/shape/connectors. It would also be good if it was just a plug and play swap, using the same connectors/controllers so that we wouldn't have to replace all sensors etc.

 

[Matteo Bikee Bike]

Thanks everybody for the feedback you gave me till now. I know that the battery is the major issue to be solved.
How many in this thread had the problem of buying a new Shimano motor because out of warranty?

Thanks.

 

[Swissrider]

I’m a new customer of Performance Line Bearings, Peter knows his stuff and can service most motors. Bosch motors are the easiest for him to work on, he has plenty of spares and can fit extra seals on the drive side called Mudstop. I took my complete bike to him and he changed out the bearings etc. in 2.5 hours. He warranties his work for 12 months but says if you are careful not to vigorously jet wash around the motor area it should be good for 30k miles approx.

Do not jet wash any where near the motor. Nearly all motor problems come from water ingress, so one needs to avoid this at all costs. I also recently had my Brose motor serviced by Peter at Performance Line Bearings (excellent and professional work BTW). Fortunately, because I have never washed the motor area of my bike (just used a damp rag), there was no damage to my motor but he did say he can tell immediately if any motor has been jet washed.

My understanding is that if one opens up a Simano motor, their software disables the motor and although PLB will service most motors, they currently don’t offer one for Shimano motors. Even if there is a rolling 2 year warranty, if a Shimano motor fails outside of that warranty the only solution is a new motor. For me, this would be a major disadvantage of a bike with a Shimano motor, which is pity because there are some excellent Shimano equipped bikes. Bosch seem to be moving towards making their motors more sustainable in the long term by issuing service kits (even though one needs some expertise and special tools to use them) which is a step in the right direction and a major plus for a Bosch motor. Even if other manufacturers don’t encourage it, at least experts like PLB can repair these motors. Hopefully, when Shimano realise that they are losing sales because of these factors, they will see the light and make their motors serviceable/repairable once the warranty has run out.

 

[Felpro]

Copied from:

Replacement parts for DU-E7000 motor

Hey guys, The DU-E7000 motor on my BMC Trailfox AMP decided to stop working - was making a grinding sound and i had no assist in any modes. Since I do not have warranty and against Shimano's better judgement I decided to open the motor. There i found a plastic cog connecting the cranks to the...

www.emtbforums.com

In Australia and possibly elsewhere, it is Shimano policy to not offer parts for their motor. That's fine when motors are being replaced under warranty but that's not ok when they enter the second hand market.

Mine broke a plastic gear within the motor/transmission assy. The gear that broke is not "Fit for purpose". I don't want buy a motor when something breaks. It is so straightforward and easy to open up the motor assy and replace this gear. I am sure there are other very complex aspects of this motor that people could not repair without a great deal of electrical expertise. With no parts available and a wait until February for a motor, I set out to fix the machine.

For me, bracing this broken plastic gear was pretty straightforward. I should not have to. I have access to a few tools that most people would not have. I would hope there's someone out there who could make a repair kit or better still a replacement gear set of a quality consistent with the next gear in the system.

I'm pretty sure it's against consumer law to not offer parts for something particularly when it's questionably constructed as this is.

There must be a lot of motors broken like mine and the others I have read about. All those with this gear broken are reasonably easily fixed. Shimano needs to make parts available to do this simple fix.

 

[bikedrd]

Thanks everybody for the feedback you gave me till now. I know that the battery is the major issue to be solved.
How many in this thread had the problem of buying a new Shimano motor because out of warranty?

Thanks.

Matteo - I have always thought what you guys are doing is a great idea; somebody needs to do it. I think it is a great business idea. I'm sure I'd pay $1,000 usd to keep my bike running.

 

[Swissrider]

Copied from:

Replacement parts for DU-E7000 motor

Hey guys, The DU-E7000 motor on my BMC Trailfox AMP decided to stop working - was making a grinding sound and i had no assist in any modes. Since I do not have warranty and against Shimano's better judgement I decided to open the motor. There i found a plastic cog connecting the cranks to the...

www.emtbforums.com

In Australia and possibly elsewhere, it is Shimano policy to not offer parts for their motor. That's fine when motors are being replaced under warranty but that's not ok when they enter the second hand market.

Mine broke a plastic gear within the motor/transmission assy. The gear that broke is not "Fit for purpose". I don't want buy a motor when something breaks. It is so straightforward and easy to open up the motor assy and replace this gear. I am sure there are other very complex aspects of this motor that people could not repair without a great deal of electrical expertise. With no parts available and a wait until February for a motor, I set out to fix the machine.

For me, bracing this broken plastic gear was pretty straightforward. I should not have to. I have access to a few tools that most people would not have. I would hope there's someone out there who could make a repair kit or better still a replacement gear set of a quality consistent with the next gear in the system.

I'm pretty sure it's against consumer law to not offer parts for something particularly when it's questionably constructed as this is.

There must be a lot of motors broken like mine and the others I have read about. All those with this gear broken are reasonably easily fixed. Shimano needs to make parts available to do this simple fix.

Above confirms what I said about Shimano motors. I’m a fan of Shimano but their products are notoriously unrepairably (have you ever tried to fix a Shimano shifter?) although they seem to work really well. When people realise the problem of unfixable motors out of guarantee which will result in poorer sales for Shimano, then maybe they will change their policy. In their tests and reviews, this disadvantage should be highlighted by the mags

 

[ggrin]

My LBS, an ebike specialist, has stopped selling Shimano powered bikes because of the poor diagnostics and the unrepairable motors.

 

[Matteo Bikee Bike]

Matteo - I have always thought what you guys are doing is a great idea; somebody needs to do it. I think it is a great business idea. I'm sure I'd pay $1,000 usd to keep my bike running.

Thanks bikedrd!

 

[bikedrd]

Thanks bikedrd!

@Matteo Bikee Bike any progress on this?

 

[sputnik378]

Thanks bikedrd!

I've got a broken e7000 motor, and I will either repair it, or look for something like your motor. I looked at your website, but I'm unsure of where your at in this process, and I'm not about to be a Guinea pig.