Orbea warranty issue

[Robson]

Hello
New emtb rider here and need some advice how I should handle this issue I´m having with Orbea.

I bought an Orbea wild and just after just 300km the whole cassette unscrewed itself from the hub and got jammed between swing arm and hub. Some minor damages was done to both cassette and swing arm. I contacted Orbea and they told me to bring my bike to a service point and they will sort me out. So I did, and they re-tightened everything and told me I´m good to go.

400km later the same thing happened. Back to the mechanics with my bike for another checkup. They swapped out 3 coggs that had taken damaged from when them unscrewed itself and got jammed. The service point told me my bike is fixed and I´m good to go ..

Less than 200km later same thing happened again. And the circle continues..

So I just picked up my bike from the shop again and this time they have used glue to secure both axel and locknut for the cassette. They told me there´s nothing else they can do for me since they cannot find the problem.

I´m having a hard time accepting glue as a fix for my 5.800€ bike. Am I really supposed to glue the rear axel every time I need to remove the wheel? Wait 24h for the loctite to cure before using my bike..

Orbeas own word said "In our opinion all the necessary service have been done so far" But in my opinion all they have done under the 4 months I´ve had this issue is re tightened and glued 2 screws. Not fixing the issue itself.

What would you guys do in my situation?

 

[Mikerb]

just to clarify, I assume you are referring to the thru axle coming loose as opposed to the hub axle? Also you say the cassette locknut is coming loose.
I would suspect a problem with the hub bearings and /or hub axle causing both issues because something is clearly either binding or not running true to cause your issues. I would request a full rear hub rebuild if not a new rear hub.

 

[Robson]

thru axle

Yes exactly.
I've been asking them for a hub rebuild or a new hub but they choose to glue it instead.
Thanks for your reply

 

[Mikerb]

I have heard of others using loctite on a thru axle but there should be no need. I would guess your issues stem from the thru axle coming loose....the cassette coming loose and getting damaged just a consequence of that. Likely root causes are rear wheel hub bearings knackered or not correctly fitted or the hub axle is bent.
You could prove your case if you are able to access a different rear wheel. Assuming that proves reliable securing the thru axle normally (torqued to 15nm but with no loctite) .

 

[PureFM]

The thru axle shouldn't require locktite. What happens if you need to remove it on the trail, like who carries locktite on a ride ....... Just checked the Blue Paper there is no sign for using Locktite (so ask your LBS why they are using it). Torque to 10Nm
Checking the thru axle for tightness before each ride is a good practice (that most of us probably don't do, me included).
Maybe check the torque before each ride just to confirm that it isn't coming loose over time.

I have never found removing cassettes an easy thing, they are usually damn tight, so to come off whilst riding just doesn't seem right ......
As previously stated the hub or hub axle (broken or bent) seems most likely. I agree with Mikerb, trying a different rear wheel to eliminate the hub/wheel. Maybe the bike shop can loan you one?
Problem with warranty on a curly problem is the bike shop only get reimbursed for their time if Orbea agree with the diagnosis.

 

[mtb-steve]

My rear axle come loose occasionally, I just check it before riding.
Never had the cassette come loose though.

 

[Mikerb]

I assumed the cassette coming loose is caused by it hitting the chainstay or seat stay once the thru axle has come loose. I can't think of any other way the cassette nut could be loosened. Re torque for the thru axle 10nm feels low to me given it is in effect a 12mm bolt ........my thru axles are the lever type rather than 5 or 6 mm Allen and I tighten as much as I physically can by hand.
Given the lbs are not prepared to rebuild the hub under warranty I would strip the hub myself.
Maybe the OP could give details of the hub freehub and cassette. That would help others on here to advise how to strip it and check for issues.

 

[Shjay]

I got removed the wheels & fork before my 1st Ride on my M20 as expected them to be crap I had spare wheels I then rebuilt the Arc30 rim onto new hubs with new spokes as both the hub & spokes were cheap crap the Shimano hub weighed 480g

 

[Robson]

I have heard of others using loctite on a thru axle but there should be no need. I would guess your issues stem from the thru axle coming loose....the cassette coming loose and getting damaged just a consequence of that. Likely root causes are rear wheel hub bearings knackered or not correctly fitted or the hub axle is bent.
You could prove your case if you are able to access a different rear wheel. Assuming that proves reliable securing the thru axle normally (torqued to 15nm but with no loctite) .

Yeah I think the root problem is most likely the hub/hub axle. Or it could be the swingarm but I doubt it. I might have to open the hub myself to see if it needs a rebuild. I´m just pissed off from the lack of service I´ve received from Orbea. SInce this has been a problem from the beginning they are obligated to fix the issue with my bike by Eu consumer laws. And it´s not really practical to glue the the thru axel every time I need to remove the wheel.

I assumed the cassette coming loose is caused by it hitting the chainstay or seat stay once the thru axle has come loose. I can't think of any other way the cassette nut could be loosened. Re torque for the thru axle 10nm feels low to me given it is in effect a 12mm bolt ........my thru axles are the lever type rather than 5 or 6 mm Allen and I tighten as much as I physically can by hand.
Given the lbs are not prepared to rebuild the hub under warranty I would strip the hub myself.
Maybe the OP could give details of the hub freehub and cassette. That would help others on here to advise how to strip it and check for issues.

It´s a shimano MT400 and a HG L freehub, Sunrace 11-51 12 speed.
I think the cassette is coming loose from the weak hub and cassette combo. Hub axel is probably bending under high load.
I´m going to see if I could borrow a wheel from someone and have a look how the bike behaves after some distance.

 

[Robson]

Problem with warranty on a curly problem is the bike shop only get reimbursed for their time if Orbea agree with the diagnosis

This is so accurate. I bought the bike online from anouther EU country so the shop is not so keen in helping me. Even tho Orbea has been in contact with the shops headquarters

 

[Mikerb]

Yeah I think the root problem is most likely the hub/hub axle. Or it could be the swingarm but I doubt it. I might have to open the hub myself to see if it needs a rebuild. I´m just pissed off from the lack of service I´ve received from Orbea. SInce this has been a problem from the beginning they are obligated to fix the issue with my bike by Eu consumer laws. And it´s not really practical to glue the the thru axel every time I need to remove the wheel.

It´s a shimano MT400 and a HG L freehub, Sunrace 11-51 12 speed.
I think the cassette is coming loose from the weak hub and cassette combo. Hub axel is probably bending under high load.
I´m going to see if I could borrow a wheel from someone and have a look how the bike behaves after some distance.

I think the MT400 uses cup and cone rather than cartridge bearings?..........in which case the hub axle is adjusted by cone lock nuts. Whilst I would have expected the LBS to have checked ( maybe not) it would be worth you at least checking that the hub axle is properly adjusted in terms of pressure on the bearing races. Note it is not unusual for those tolerances to increase a while after the bearings have been regreased ( or initially greased) as some of that grease gets displaced in use.

 

[Mackeminexile]

I bought a '22 Orbea Wild FS H20 and the rear hub was made of cheese. Similar issues, there's a thread here too, you're not alone. Finally got the shop to do a rebuild with the rims using Dt Swiss spokes/nipples and a Deore XT hub after Orbea supplied a terrible and faulty replacement hub when the first one broke. Keep pushing the shop and make a fuss!

 

[jonmat]

In my opinion the Shimano hub that was supplied with my FSH25 didn't last more than 500 miles, changed the wheels for Hope Fortus with ProHub4's never had an issue since. I now have 4,200 mile on the clock. Hope that helps, it's sometimes worth spending some money to give you reliability. You can't ride your bike when it's in the shop.

 

[Mackeminexile]

That was my quick solution too, got a massive disco off the shop for the Fortus 5 Pro and they're amazing. Have the rebuilt wheel as a "winter wheel". Orbea are apparently terrible for CS according to the shop I dealt with

 

[Robson]

I think the MT400 uses cup and cone rather than cartridge bearings?..........in which case the hub axle is adjusted by cone lock nuts. Whilst I would have expected the LBS to have checked ( maybe not) it would be worth you at least checking that the hub axle is properly adjusted in terms of pressure on the bearing races. Note it is not unusual for those tolerances to increase a while after the bearings have been regreased ( or initially greased) as some of that grease gets displaced in use.

First thanks to all the replys! They are helpful!

@Mikerb I'm almost sure they use cup n cone bearings.. I'll rebuild it when I have some info from Orbea what they will do for me.

Last email I received from Orbea they said basically too bad our service point won't help you. Try with the shop where you bought the bike.
Impressive how poorly they handle warranty claims..

 

[Robson]

I bought a '22 Orbea Wild FS H20 and the rear hub was made of cheese. Similar issues, there's a thread here too, you're not alone. Finally got the shop to do a rebuild with the rims using Dt Swiss spokes/nipples and a Deore XT hub after Orbea supplied a terrible and faulty replacement hub when the first one broke. Keep pushing the shop and make a fuss!

I found the thread. Will read it tonight after work.
Did you buy your bike online?

 

[Robson]

In my opinion the Shimano hub that was supplied with my FSH25 didn't last more than 500 miles, changed the wheels for Hope Fortus with ProHub4's never had an issue since. I now have 4,200 mile on the clock. Hope that helps, it's sometimes worth spending some money to give you reliability. You can't ride your bike when it's in the shop.

This one?

Fortus 30 Pro 5 Disc 6-Bolt 29" MicroSpline Boost Rear Wheel

The Pro 5 advanced hub technology: Fortus 30 Pro 5 Disc 6-bolt 29" Shimano MicroSpline Boost rear wheel from Hope Hope has over 30 years of experience in the development and manufacture of hubs. With the Pro 5, this experience was used...

www.bike-discount.de

 

[Mackeminexile]

I found the thread. Will read it tonight after work.
Did you buy your bike online?

Yes but from a local shop. I had to really push them to get a satisfactory outcome though.

 

[Robson]

push them to get a satisfactory outcome though.

You usually have to. Seems to be standard with today's business.
I'm emailing with the shop where I bought the bike from now. I will update whenever I have some news.

 

[James_C]

have you tried putting a spacer behind the cassette? sometimes need one to clamp down on the cassette properly. Although I'm not sure how the locknut is undoing?

 

[jonmat]

This one?

Fortus 30 Pro 5 Disc 6-Bolt 29" MicroSpline Boost Rear Wheel

The Pro 5 advanced hub technology: Fortus 30 Pro 5 Disc 6-bolt 29" Shimano MicroSpline Boost rear wheel from Hope Hope has over 30 years of experience in the development and manufacture of hubs. With the Pro 5, this experience was used...

www.bike-discount.de

That's the ones, but the Pro Hub 5 is a better newer version than my own. I had mine built by Dave Kaye, The Yorkshire Bike Mechanic www.cycle-fast.co.uk/about-us/ excellent build with quick mail order turn around. I went 6 bolt but had some buggeration fitting the sensor magnet.

This one?

Fortus 30 Pro 5 Disc 6-Bolt 29" MicroSpline Boost Rear Wheel

The Pro 5 advanced hub technology: Fortus 30 Pro 5 Disc 6-bolt 29" Shimano MicroSpline Boost rear wheel from Hope Hope has over 30 years of experience in the development and manufacture of hubs. With the Pro 5, this experience was used...

www.bike-discount.de

Yes

 

[Mackeminexile]

I got the Pro 5 and it's a brilliant hub

 

[jonmat]

I got the Pro 5 and it's a brilliant hub

So I hear, my Pro 4's are also rock solid.