Orbea Urrun EP801 and XT Di2 with auto shift headache

[Astro66]

Yeah sorry. Didn't see it was a US post. So yes. 32kph or lower would be fine.

If I plug my laptop and ETube software into my motor, and I haven't set my speed back to 25kph using the Emax software. It detects the altered limit and won't let you update the firmware.

 

[Backflip]

Are there any precautions with firmware updates on an EP801 modified using Emax?

I only enabled Autoshift with it.

It’s been great all season.

I don´t understand the question. What is your current motor firmware and is your EP801 modified already with the EMAX software, so the bike runs faster?
You cannot enable AutoShift with EMAX, that makes no sense - please clarify.

 

[Astro66]

You cannot enable AutoShift with EMAX, that makes no sense - please clarify.

I read it that they fitted a Di2 Derailleur, so selected the Electronic Derailleur in Emax, giving them Autoshift, as you cannot do this with customer copies of Shimano ETube.

 

[Backflip]

I read it that they fitted a Di2 Derailleur, so selected the Electronic Derailleur in Emax, giving them Autoshift, as you cannot do this with customer copies of Shimano ETube.

Thanks, that makes sense. So "they" changed the type of derailleur to "electronic" with EMAX software and then did the AutoShift configuration in E-Tube-Project. That makes things clearer to me.
However, I still don´t get the point on the question "Are there any precautions with firmware updates on an EP801 modified using Emax?"
I just don´t understand this question and there are to many "unknow variables" to me, see the related questions in my previous post...

 

[Astro66]

However, I still don´t get the point on the question "Are there any precautions with firmware updates on an EP801 modified using Emax?"

I read that his concern is, that he modified the motors configuration with Emax, rather than with the Shimano ETube software. Because only the Shimano Mechanic's version of ETube could have made the changes he needed.

And now he wants to do a firmware upgrade with the Shimano Software. Will it be impacted by the fact he made previous configuration changes with EMax.

And it won't. As long as he hasn't used EMax to increase the Speed Limit above the Region limit. And even if he had. You just need to put limit back to the Region Limit, before doing the firmware upgrade.

 

[Backflip]

I read that his concern is, that he modified the motors configuration with Emax, rather than with the Shimano ETube software. Because only the Shimano Mechanic's version of ETube could have made the changes he needed.

And now he wants to do a firmware upgrade with the Shimano Software. Will it be impacted by the fact he made previous configuration changes with EMax.

Yes, if @a_double has used EMAX just for changing the derailleur type, then he easily can update to a newer motor firmware without any problems or negative effects and the changed configuration (e.g. electronic derailleur) will stay the same.

As long as he hasn't used EMax to increase the Speed Limit above the Region limit. And even if he had. You just need to put limit back to the Region Limit, before doing the firmware upgrade.

If you will update an already EMAX speed optimized DU-EP801 or DU-EP600 based bike to a newer original motor firmware from Shimano (e.g. the currently latest version 4.3.0), then the increased max. motor support speed will be gone and the bike will be reset back to 25km/h (if the drive unit was originally factory set to EU mode) or 32km/h (if the drive unit was originally factory set to US mode).
However, in this case you currently can increase max. motor suppport speed again via a remote control session done by EMAX, but not by yourself. You then will get all features of the new motor firmware 4.3.0 and additionally max. motor support speed of 50km/h if the drive unit was originally factory set to EU mode or 64km/h (40mph) if the drive unit was originally factory set to US mode. This optimization works perfectly also on the long run and for sure you will also get correct values on the bike display.

 

[markloch]

Yeah sorry. Didn't see it was a US post. So yes. 32kph or lower would be fine.

If I plug my laptop and ETube software into my motor, and I haven't set my speed back to 25kph using the Emax software. It detects the altered limit and won't let you update the firmware.

[edit: wrote this before reading what backflip wrote. He likely knows more than me ]

I believe eMax modifies the official firmware images to override the speed limiter. Quite a feat to figure out what bits - literally - need to be flipped. That’s why you can’t install the eMax image normally - the installer likely calculates a checksum from the image to ensure it’s not corrupt or modified.

Similarly, I believe if you want to upgrade to a newer firmware version, you need follow some procedure eMax provides.

That said, it seems a_double and I are using eMax just to tweak the configuration with the existing official image. I bumped my RS motor to max torque and power, and more recently enabled autoshift feature.

Whatax speed do you run at?

 

[Backflip]

[edit: wrote this before reading what backflip wrote. He likely knows more than me ]

I believe eMax modifies the official firmware images to override the speed limiter. Quite a feat to figure out what bits - literally - need to be flipped. That’s why you can’t install the eMax image normally - the installer likely calculates a checksum from the image to ensure it’s not corrupt or modified.

Similarly, I believe if you want to upgrade to a newer firmware version, you need follow some procedure eMax provides.

That said, it seems a_double and I are using eMax just to tweak the configuration with the existing official image. I bumped my RS motor to max torque and power, and more recently enabled autoshift feature.

Whatax speed do you run at?

On my DU-EP801 based bike am on max. motor support speed of 50km/h since many months already and enjoy it a lot, see e.g. here.

 

[Winford]

Canyon sectral cf 8 on. Same issue, same code after installing di2. Read this thread contacted emax, and I already had the shimano computer. Works perfect with all the knowledge here, and emax. Shout out to Emax!!!! those guys are great to deal with and stand up people. Helped me out and it is our only choice if you want di2 on your bike. Anyway loving the di2 12s and free shift

 

[Autr3ment]

Hello,

Thanks for adding me to this forum.

I’m currently riding a Stevens E-inception 7.7.2. The bike has an EP801 motor and manual Deore XT 12 speed (RD-M8100-SGS) with Linkglide. I would like to upgrade to XT Di2 so that I can use Freeshift and Autoshift. Can somebody confirm if these parts will be the way to go for letting this setup work?

• XT Di2 RD-M8150 12 speed Derailleur
• XT Di2 linkglide shifter SW-M8150-I
• Shimano STEPS SW-EN600-L Switch, really necessary? I’ve got currently the shimano basic type 2 switch
• Di2 EW-SD300-I, any suggestions on length? And how many cables do you need?
• SM-PCE02 data cable, buy or borrow
• Emax tuning miniMax software for windows

Am I missing something else?

Many thanks!

 

[Backflip]

Hello,

Thanks for adding me to this forum.

I’m currently riding a Stevens E-inception 7.7.2. The bike has an EP801 motor and manual Deore XT 12 speed (RD-M8100-SGS) with Linkglide. I would like to upgrade to XT Di2 so that I can use Freeshift and Autoshift. Can somebody confirm if these parts will be the way to go for letting this setup work?

• XT Di2 RD-M8150 12 speed Derailleur
• XT Di2 linkglide shifter SW-M8150-I
• Shimano STEPS SW-EN600-L Switch, really necessary? I’ve got currently the shimano basic type 2 switch
• Di2 EW-SD300-I, any suggestions on length? And how many cables do you need?
• SM-PCE02 data cable, buy or borrow
• Emax tuning miniMax software for windows

Am I missing something else?

Many thanks!

Take care: The 12 gear version RD-M8150-12 only has limited AutoShift functionality and this will only work when coasting (without load on the chain, due to the small chain and sprockets and the Hyperglide+ technology, see here). If you really want to get full AutoShift functionality (which in my opinion is not a real must on a real MTB, but more on an Urban bike), you need to use the 11 gear version RD-M8150-11 (and for sure the related 11 sprocket cassette) with the LinkGlide technology which is much more rubust for (automatic) gear changes under full load, see here.

Also don´t mix components and extremely carefully check this document.
Depending on your currently used display you maybe need an additional SW-EN600-R ("R" for "right") for changing gears at the right hand side handlebar, but definitely not the left hand side SW-EN600-L which is for mode setting and also includes Bluetooth, but has nothing to do with an electronic derailleur.

So, most proabably your Stevens E-inception 7.7.2 currently uses the SC-EM800 display and a "1st generation battery management system for partner manufacturers' battery" 726Wh battery from Darfon (see second chart in the compatibiltiy list) and with this configuration, you can use the SW-EM800-L, SW-EN600-R, SW-M8150-R or SW-M8150-IR control unit for changing gears on the right hand side handle bar.

 

[Autr3ment]

Take care: The 12 gear version RD-M8150-12 only has limited AutoShift functionality and this will only work when coasting (without load on the chain, due to the small chain and sprockets and the Hyperglide+ technology, see here). If you really want to get full AutoShift functionality (which in my opinion is not a real must on a real MTB, but more on an Urban bike), you need to use the 11 gear version RD-M8150-11 (and for sure the related 11 sprocket cassette) with the LinkGlide technology which is much more rubust for (automatic) gear changes under full load, see here.

Also don´t mix components and extremely carefully check this document.
Depending on your currently used display you maybe need an additional SW-EN600-R ("R" for "right") for changing gears at the right hand side handlebar, but definitely not the left hand side SW-EN600-L which is for mode setting and also includes Bluetooth, but has nothing to do with an electronic derailleur.

So, most proabably your Stevens E-inception 7.7.2 currently uses the SC-EM800 display and a "1st generation battery management system for partner manufacturers' battery" 726Wh battery from Darfon (see second chart in the compatibiltiy list) and with this configuration, you can use the SW-EM800-L, SW-EN600-R, SW-M8150-R or SW-M8150-IR control unit for changing gears on the right hand side handle bar.

Thank you for your quick reply, answer and all the information. I would like to get it’s full potential. Just to be clear, do I just need these parts to make the change to di2 11 speed?

• CS-LG700-11 Linkglide cassette. 11-45T or 11-50T?
• SW-EN600-R or SW-M8150-I(R). What’s the better option?
• SHIMANO XT DI2 SHADOW PLUS RD-M8150-11
• Di2 EW-SD300-I, any suggestions on length? And how many cables do you need?
• SM-PCE02 data cable, buy or borrow
• Emax tuning miniMax software for windows

Or do I need to change the hub as well?

Thanks!

 

[Backflip]

Thank you for your quick reply, answer and all the information. I would like to get it’s full potential. Just to be clear, do I just need these parts to make the change to di2 11 speed?

• CS-LG700-11 Linkglide cassette. 11-45T or 11-50T?
• SW-EN600-R or SW-M8150-I(R). What’s the better option?
• SHIMANO XT DI2 SHADOW PLUS RD-M8150-11
• Di2 EW-SD300-I, any suggestions on length? And how many cables do you need?
• SM-PCE02 data cable, buy or borrow
• Emax tuning miniMax software for windows

Or do I need to change the hub as well?

Thanks!

Please first verify (and give reply) that you have the SC-EM800 display mounted on your bike or not, because depending on the display type and battery type, the other components have to be selected!
Again, carefully check the previously linked compatibilty document of Shimano.
It takes some time to get down to the insights of this document, so be patient and also read the small letters - this will avoid that you will buy the wrong components.

I cannot write anything to the mechanical components, because I am not a "mechanical guy", my focus is on electronics, firmware and software.
However, at least you most probably need a new linkglide compatible chain and also should check if your currently used chainring (the front "big sprocket") is compatible with the linkglide technology from Shimano.
Also you have to take care of the so called "chain line" (see e.g. here) but that is not my stuff too. These are all mechanical issues, but you need to assure that these components will match to each other, otherwise your Di2 experience may not be that great and you will get nasty noises and bad (non-precise) gear shifting in the end.

As written before, I would never use AutoShift on a "real" mountain bike like yours, because I always want to shift exactly by myself and never would want that the AutoShift functionality would change gears automatically if I am in "hard terrain".
This is why I only use the (in my eyes perfect) RD-M8150-12 derailleur with 12 gears since quite some years now (I think I was one of the first users of this derailleur worldwide).
FreeShift is awesome (but you have FreeShift - functionality on RD-M8150-12 and RD-M8150-11 in the same way).

The selection of the cassette is up to you - I would prefer the 11-50teeth one because with this you have more "dynamics".
SW-EN600-R and SW-M8150 are up to you also, however I only would select the SW-EN600-R if your bike is fitted already with the (similar looking) SW-EN600-L unit at the left hand side.
But I am quite sure that your bike is using the SC-EM800 display (and because of this no SW-EN600-L control, because SW-EN600-L and SC-EM800 cannot be used at the same time on a bike) and so most probably I would select one of the "real" and classical SW-M8150xx shifters. They are a great choice and give you some cool "oldschool" shifter feeling with a new touch.

Regarding cable length: If you are using an SC-EM800 display, this display has 4 receptacles in total and mostly 2 of them are not used currently. So you need one short cable from the display to the right hand side gear control unit, e.g. SW-M8150xx. Depending if this cable will be inside or outside of the handlebar, the cable length may differ. Use one which is long enough.
Then you need another (mostly much longer) cable which will connect the drive unit with the rear derailleur. It can be a quite time consuming process to get this cable correctly mounted inside the frame. Most probably you have to dismantle or at least lower the drive unit for this and so need some related tools to do so. Also take care that this cable will not be squeezed from moving parts while riding.
After you have correctly mechanically and electrically mounted this equipment, you most probably will get an E903 error in the display when powering on the bike.
Now take the correct adapter cable from the SM-PCE02 interface (take care to order this interface in the newer packaging version which already includes the newer adapter cable with the new small SD300 plug, see in chapter 3.2 of this document) and connect this cable to the last non-used receptacle of the (most probably) SC-EM800 display and then you can use the latest version 2.60 of the Windows based miniMax program already in the licence key free (and so free of charge) version to configure your new perfect derailleur correctly and have a lot of fun with your bike.

 

[Autr3ment]

Please first verify (and give reply) that you have the SC-EM800 display mounted on your bike or not, because depending on the display type and battery type, the other components have to be selected!
Again, carefully check the previously linked compatibilty document of Shimano.
It takes some time to get down to the insights of this document, so be patient and also read the small letters - this will avoid that you will buy the wrong components.

I cannot write anything to the mechanical components, because I am not a "mechanical guy", my focus is on electronics, firmware and software.
However, at least you most probably need a new linkglide compatible chain and also should check if your currently used chainring (the front "big sprocket") is compatible with the linkglide technology from Shimano.
Also you have to take care of the so called "chain line" (see e.g. here) but that is not my stuff too. These are all mechanical issues, but you need to assure that these components will match to each other, otherwise your Di2 experience may not be that great and you will get nasty noises and bad (non-precise) gear shifting in the end.

As written before, I would never use AutoShift on a "real" mountain bike like yours, because I always want to shift exactly by myself and never would want that the AutoShift functionality would change gears automatically if I am in "hard terrain".
This is why I only use the (in my eyes perfect) RD-M8150-12 derailleur with 12 gears since quite some years now (I think I was one of the first users of this derailleur worldwide).
FreeShift is awesome (but you have FreeShift - functionality on RD-M8150-12 and RD-M8150-11 in the same way).

The selection of the cassette is up to you - I would prefer the 11-50teeth one because with this you have more "dynamics".
SW-EN600-R and SW-M8150 are up to you also, however I only would select the SW-EN600-R if your bike is fitted already with the (similar looking) SW-EN600-L unit at the left hand side.
But I am quite sure that your bike is using the SC-EM800 display (and because of this no SW-EN600-L control, because SW-EN600-L and SC-EM800 cannot be used at the same time on a bike) and so most probably I would select one of the "real" and classical SW-M8150xx shifters. They are a great choice and give you some cool "oldschool" shifter feeling with a new touch.

Regarding cable length: If you are using an SC-EM800 display, this display has 4 receptacles in total and mostly 2 of them are not used currently. So you need one short cable from the display to the right hand side gear control unit, e.g. SW-M8150xx. Depending if this cable will be inside or outside of the handlebar, the cable length may differ. Use one which is long enough.
Then you need another (mostly much longer) cable which will connect the drive unit with the rear derailleur. It can be a quite time consuming process to get this cable correctly mounted inside the frame. Most probably you have to dismantle or at least lower the drive unit for this and so need some related tools to do so. Also take care that this cable will not be squeezed from moving parts while riding.
After you have correctly mechanically and electrically mounted this equipment, you most probably will get an E903 error in the display when powering on the bike.
Now take the correct adapter cable from the SM-PCE02 interface (take care to order this interface in the newer packaging version which already includes the newer adapter cable with the new small SD300 plug, see in chapter 3.2 of this document) and connect this cable to the last non-used receptacle of the (most probably) SC-EM800 display and then you can use the latest version 2.60 of the Windows based miniMax program already in the licence key free (and so free of charge) version to configure your new perfect derailleur correctly and have a lot of fun with your bike.

Hmm.. maby going the easy way with the 12 speed is a better option in this case then. My bike does indeed have the SC-EM800 display. Oldschool shifters make sense haha Many thanks for your help!

 

[Astro66]

Hmm.. maby going the easy way with the 12 speed is a better option in this case then. My bike does indeed have the SC-EM800 display. Oldschool shifters make sense haha Many thanks for your help!

I have the EM800 display and 12 speed transmission.

Don't bother making changes for Autoshift. I changed to 11S Linkglide on my previous bike for Autoshift, and Autoshift was pretty useless. It cannot predict the terrain ahead, so shifts too late. Then quite often shifts when you don't want it to.

The useful shifting is Freeshift. This is the ability to shift without pedalling. This I used all the time on both bikes.

So do what I did on my latest bike.

1) Leave the 12S hyperglide cassette on the bike.
2) Get the RD-M8150-12 Di2 Derailleur.
3) Get the SW-M8150-R Shifter. It's much better as a shifter than the SW-EN600-R. Your thumb is much more comfortable.
4) The EM800 display has 4 SD300 ports. So you need a cable to go from it, to the SW-M8150-R Shifter. Just measure the distance. Leave a little extra. Tie any extra under your stem neatly.
5) Then you need a cable to go from the Motor to the RD-M8150-12 Di2 Derailleur. Measure that distance, plus a little extra. You can tuck extra into the motor housing.
6) Then you need both the Shimano ETube and Mini-max program, and SM-PCE02 data cable to reprogram the motor for the electronic shifting.

That's it. Photos below.

 

[Autr3ment]

I have the EM800 display and 12 speed transmission.

Don't bother making changes for Autoshift. I changed to 11S Linkglide on my previous bike for Autoshift, and Autoshift was pretty useless. It cannot predict the terrain ahead, so shifts too late. Then quite often shifts when you don't want it to.

The useful shifting is Freeshift. This is the ability to shift without pedalling. This I used all the time on both bikes.

So do what I did on my latest bike.

1) Leave the 12S hyperglide cassette on the bike.
2) Get the RD-M8150-12 Di2 Derailleur.
3) Get the SW-M8150-R Shifter. It's much better as a shifter than the SW-EN600-R. Your thumb is much more comfortable.
4) The EM800 display has 4 SD300 ports. So you need a cable to go from it, to the SW-M8150-R Shifter. Just measure the distance. Leave a little extra. Tie any extra under your stem neatly.
5) Then you need a cable to go from the Motor to the RD-M8150-12 Di2 Derailleur. Measure that distance, plus a little extra. You can tuck extra into the motor housing.
6) Then you need both the Shimano ETube and Mini-max program, and SM-PCE02 data cable to reprogram the motor for the electronic shifting.

That's it. Photos below.

View attachment 158371

View attachment 158373

Thanks for your effort and info! I will go this route