Orbea rise, motor switches off under high ish load

[Mteam]

So, following on from this saga Orbea rise - motor dead after firmware update - EMTB Forums, my mate now has a new problem with his rise.

If he pedals along on the flat in a low assistmode all is fine, the motor assists like it should.
If ,however , he starts to go up hill or increases the assist mode the motor just shuts off, the power light stays on,but the motor goes into off mode,he can bring it back into life by pressing the increase assist button, where it's all fine until he requires the motor to put in a bit of effort ,ie either goes up a hill or increases assist beyond eco.

No errors are thrown in the app. Anyone got any ideas before he sets fire to it and dumps it on Shimano hq doorstep?

 

[Longfellow78]

Is he on the stock RS firmware or the standard EP8 firmware?

 

[Mteam]

Is he on the stock RS firmware or the standard EP8 firmware?

stock RS firmware - no changes to default settings.

Its not the speed limiter cutting out the motor either, he can be doing 5 mph pedalling lightly along a flat road in eco mode and it'll run fine like that forever, as soon as he hits an incline , pedals harder or increases the assist level the motor cuts out. It makes no difference whether he's travelling at 2mph,5 mph, 10 mph etc, its purely load related, if he demands more assistance than just riding along the flat in eco, the motor just cuts out.

This is on a brand new warranty replacement motor which has covered less than 20 miles . My gut feeling is on some problem with a connector when the shop put it all back together, but seems odd that it would be a load related cut out, rather than just intermittant when going over bumps os something.

 

[Longfellow78]

I'm sure I've read about this somewhere before on a forum, and I believe it needed a new motor. Possibly something to do with the torque sensor. Clearly it should not be something he should have to fix - needs a warrantly claim I think alas.

 

[Mteam]

I'm sure I've read about this somewhere before on a forum, and I believe it needed a new motor. Possibly something to do with the torque sensor. Clearly it should not be something he should have to fix - needs a warrantly claim I think alas.

yep, its going back to the shop. If it needs another new motor, that will be his 4th motor in probably 400 miles in total

 

[Longfellow78]

yep, its going back to the shop. If it needs another new motor, that will be his 4th motor in probably 400 miles in total

Well I'm sure it's happened before, but statistically the chances of 4 bad motors from different batches would be extraordinarily unlikely. That makes me thing its not the motor but maybe something to do with the wiring or battery....

 

[Mteam]

Well I'm sure it's happened before, but statistically the chances of 4 bad motors from different batches would be extraordinarily unlikely. That makes me thing its not the motor but maybe something to do with the wiring or battery....

1st motor was bricked by a bad firmware update before it was even ridden, and replaced by shimano under warranty

2nd motor started throwing E010 & E020 errors after about 400 miles of use , shimano wouldnt/couldnt say what the problem was, but we suspect moisture ingress, was replaced by shimano under warranty.

3rd motor has started cutting out when more than eco/light load demanded of it , no more than 20 miles on it since it was last replaced, no error codes - Its going back to shop , Lets see what they say - will report back.

 

[Longfellow78]

Interesting. I wonder is there any way to try and waterproof the motor a little?

 

[Zimmerframe]

As you say, it sounds like a connector problem.

At low current, it's fine. Once the current requirements go up it drops the motor assist mode to "off".

If the problem was with the battery/bms and the bms was thinking there was too much draw, I'd imagine it would just shut off completely - ie, all the power would go off completely.

If there's a connection/wiring issue from the motor to the battery which is limiting current (poor connection), it sounds like the motor's then sensing it's not getting the current it should and is just shutting off.

 

[Mikerb]

As you say, it sounds like a connector problem.

At low current, it's fine. Once the current requirements go up it drops the motor assist mode to "off".

If the problem was with the battery/bms and the bms was thinking there was too much draw, I'd imagine it would just shut off completely - ie, all the power would go off completely.

If there's a connection/wiring issue from the motor to the battery which is limiting current (poor connection), it sounds like the motor's then sensing it's not getting the current it should and is just shutting off.

agreed..........and likely the issue from the outset on all of the motors.

 

[Boots3150]

So, following on from this saga Orbea rise - motor dead after firmware update - EMTB Forums, my mate now has a new problem with his rise.

If he pedals along on the flat in a low assistmode all is fine, the motor assists like it should.
If ,however , he starts to go up hill or increases the assist mode the motor just shuts off, the power light stays on,but the motor goes into off mode,he can bring it back into life by pressing the increase assist button, where it's all fine until he requires the motor to put in a bit of effort ,ie either goes up a hill or increases assist beyond eco.

No errors are thrown in the app. Anyone got any ideas before he sets fire to it and dumps it on Shimano hq doorstep?

Sounds like incorrectly calibrated torque sensor. Try avoiding having pressure on pedals while powering on your bike. True of all bikes/brands/motors I understand.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

Yikes to the above. I was so wanting one to comment my commencal meta power which is 20 plus lbs heavier. I'm gonna need a bike with all electronics from the motor manufacturer.

 

[Mteam]

Quick update on this : the bike is still in the shop, apparently shimano trying to decide whether it needs a new motor, or whether it can be sorted with a tweak to software config of the motor.

 

[Mteam]

update on this : shimano confirm torque sensor failed, bike needs a new motor, so thats the 4th motor for this bike.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

More yikes!

 

[Mosheas]

So, following on from this saga Orbea rise - motor dead after firmware update - EMTB Forums, my mate now has a new problem with his rise.

If he pedals along on the flat in a low assistmode all is fine, the motor assists like it should.
If ,however , he starts to go up hill or increases the assist mode the motor just shuts off, the power light stays on,but the motor goes into off mode,he can bring it back into life by pressing the increase assist button, where it's all fine until he requires the motor to put in a bit of effort ,ie either goes up a hill or increases assist beyond eco.

No errors are thrown in the app. Anyone got any ideas before he sets fire to it and dumps it on Shimano hq doorstep?

So what was the end of the solution to this issue?

 

[Richridesmtb]

So what was the end of the solution to this issue?

Just read two posts above your reply. It was the torque sensor, needed a new motor.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

So the Shimano torque sensor is internal to the engine case? And Shimano can't or won't simply replace the faulty component and now how to replace the entire motor. Am I the only one that is a bit miffed by this. And come 2 years you get to pay for this ?? This is a problem for me.

 

[Mosheas]

Just read two posts above your reply. It was the torque sensor, needed a new motor.

In my opinion the problem was not from engine, the problem probably com from the main wires between the battery and the engine it's not well connected

 

[Richridesmtb]

In my opinion the problem was not from engine, the problem probably com from the main wires between the battery and the engine it's not well connected

I'm just repeating what Mteam said. I'd imagine shimano would be able to diagnose the issue accurately and doubt they'd replace another motor unless it was necessary.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

Rise weakness is the proprietary battery and connections.

 

[Mteam]

In my opinion the problem was not from engine, the problem probably com from the main wires between the battery and the engine it's not well connected

According to Shimano ,The problem was with the motor, a new motor was fitted and has been fine since.

I guess if there was a problem with the connection between motor and battery then this would also be fixed by fitting a new motor, so in this instance we'll never know for sure,but the official line from Shimano was that the motor was faulty

 

[Cyclopath1000]

What's heartening is that Shimano actually got it fixed. By any chance is this Shimano USA or is it a European version of Shimano.

 

[Mteam]

What's heartening is that Shimano actually got it fixed. By any chance is this Shimano USA or is it a European version of Shimano.

Shimano in the uk