Can the stock butcher tires be run tubeless? Or is it not recommended? I see a lot of threads about maxis dhf in the front and dhr2 in the rear. But here in New England we mostly have single track (unless you go to a ski hill) and maybe those tires are overkill so maybe I’ll just stay with stock tires.
On going tubeless...
- Thread starter skypickle
- Start date
Lukelw
Member
Personally, I wouldn't risk it especially if you like to go out for longish rides
The grid sidewalls just aren't up to ebike weight and abuse I put a slit in mine on some average roots luckily i wasn't tubeless or I would have been stranded.
I've just ordered some hillbilly black diamond sidewalls they are meant to be up to the job and are tubeless-ready
The grid sidewalls just aren't up to ebike weight and abuse I put a slit in mine on some average roots luckily i wasn't tubeless or I would have been stranded.
I've just ordered some hillbilly black diamond sidewalls they are meant to be up to the job and are tubeless-ready
Lukelw
Member
I also didn't like the 2.8's they roll around and squirm in the fast corners and if you inflate them hard enough so they don't roll over you have zero traction
I ran tubes in my butchers for 7 months and thought they were alright. Did get heaps of flats though and ended up going tubeless. Massive difference to flats, never had one again.
They do squirm a lot though and as said above to make that go away you need to add too much air.
I heard the black diamond version solves these issues.
I personally went to Maxxis assagai and dhf and the difference was very noticeable. Much better performance in the mud/loose stuff.
I have a set of black diamond eliminators that I’m trying next. Heard they’re awesome!
I also went down in size to 2.5f/2.6r
They do squirm a lot though and as said above to make that go away you need to add too much air.
I heard the black diamond version solves these issues.
I personally went to Maxxis assagai and dhf and the difference was very noticeable. Much better performance in the mud/loose stuff.
I have a set of black diamond eliminators that I’m trying next. Heard they’re awesome!
I also went down in size to 2.5f/2.6r
- Thread starter
- #6
so i am also reading about wheels- i know nothing really--only what i read in places like this. Will these wheels work?
DT Swiss XR1501 Spline Boost 25 Predictive Steering MTB Wheelset | Merlin Cycles
They seem a little narrow but the price is right. Though there is this fine print
DT Swiss XR1501 Spline Boost 25 Predictive Steering MTB Wheelset | Merlin Cycles
They seem a little narrow but the price is right. Though there is this fine print
- Predictive Steering: A wider hub flange spacing results in a stronger, more responsive wheel. These wheels are ONLY Compatible with the Rockshox PREDICTIVE STEERING forks found on the RockShox RS-1
Lukelw
Member
I honestly would stick with the factory wheels me and my friend have hit huge stuff on them spanked them all over the place on rock gardens and they are still straight as a needle..
unless you were going to go to go for a set of carbon wheels for less gyroscopic weight but they are ££££
davarello
Well-known member
I've got stock Butchers running tubeless with Cushcore inserts. I can run a decent pressure for traction (20F, 24R) but with no squirming or flats in 2000k so far.
Tubeless of course. I don't see any advantages in any circumstances to ride with inner tubes. If you are not riding rough Butcher Grid is ok. Much lighter than black diamond. I have butcher grid in the front and eliminator black dmnd in the rear. One mistake so far, see the picture.
Marcelfacd
Member
I would not do it!
1-This is a fairly light XC oriented wheel set not very suited for E bikes
2- I m quite certain you are not using a RS 1 fork (certainly don’t know an e-bike that has one (ore any bike for that matter since the reputation is quite bad)
Marcelfacd
Member
Why is that? Every sensible tubeless rider has an inner tube with him/her ‘in case of’...big ripture or anything. Milk in thas case doesnt do the job. And in case of a big rip in a tire you have the same problem with an innertube....improvise!!
Lukelw
Member
Because grid sidewalks are fine for normal mountain bike applications but on a 20kg ebike that’s focused for downhill they simply do not cut it. Depends how hard you ride and the trails you’re hitting but for me tearing a side wall first ride out meant they were heading for the bin and thicker casing tyres ordered
Last edited:
Marcelfacd
Member
Errr...few things in the mix here?
The OP just asked if it was a good idea/possible to go tubeless with the Butchers....yes/yes I think. I don’t see ‘downhill’ anywhere? (I see he rides singletracks a lot...so just fine)
Then it is IMHO not a problem to go tubeless in downhill/Enduro...I rode the Mega about a dozen times and I run tubeless on all my bikes allways...just inners for spare thats it. I never had a problem whatsoever. Then again, i agree with that, for really hard riding i would not go with a Butcher. (But that goes for riding with innertubes as well)
Lukelw
Member
I get you completely, for single track use the tyres will be fine. but as I mentioned I split my side wall riding singletrack on the ridgeway on a very light root section aired up at 26 psi so I would not recommend going tubless on the grid casing tyres (again personal opinion). black diamond casing for e-bikes seems to be what every runs here that upgrades for specialized tyres over Maxxis
The bike is designed for extreme riding with 180mm of travel and yet they spec it with tyres that cannot cope with this type of riding.. Just baffles me, I guess that's why there are so many threads on replacing the tyres on the kenevo..
The Levo is a very capable bike and I suspect that leads to some using it way beyond its specified use. Its an all mountain bike ( spesh category 4)i.e not for downhill big jumps etc. Kept to its intended use and recommended minimum tyre pressures the Butchers are fine in my experience. Yes they can be run tubeless. I run with tubes because I see no real benefit in tubeless. I have had zero punctures and had no problems with wash out etc but I mostly ride in the Forest on natural trails and conditions have been pretty dry.
- Thread starter
- #16
My intent is to lower the tire pressures. I tried dropping to 20 psi and I liked the increased traction. With the benefit of motor assist, I can do climbs now that always had me getting off the bike to walk uphill. I can finally understand all about shifting your weight to balance direction control (leaning up onto the bars) vs sitting up(more weight on rear wheel for better traction). Before the ebike, my brain was oxygen starved and all I could think about was pedaling to get up the damn hill. I looked into getting cushcore. But here again, the devil of details appears again. There is cushcore pro,cushcore xc, and cushcore plus and cushcore gravel. Since my tires are 2.6 and the roval rims are 30, I guess I willl get the 'pro'.
Lower volume for traction on a climb is standard .....minimal risk of pinch punctures and no fast corners......its also good for traction when braking. Other than that the tyre is slower and likely to squirm on corners and pinch punctures and rim damage are more likely. Running tubeless and using expensive add ons like cushcore help but are not a cure all. So compromise is needed for a ride with a mix.
I have conquered all my local techy climbs by experimenting with mode gearing and technique....no change of tyre pressures required. I run 26f 28r.
My main reason for tubeless on a normal bike is lower rolling resistance. That doesn't matter as much on an eBike unless you are running out of range.
That would depend on rider weight. I am 64kg. So me on a Levo is like a 73kg person on a normal bike.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Interesting. Doing rolling road tests 15 or 20 years ago to prove or disprove what was in MTB magazines at the time we proved conclusively they were full of BS with their comments about tire pressures and rolling resistance. With every tire tested the optimal pressure for less rolling resistance was on the higher half of the manufacturers recommended range and for performance traction was in the lower half.
Higher pressure is always lower rolling resistance on a smooth surface:
Mountain Bike Tires Rolling Resistance Reviews
But, there is evidence that lower pressure can give to allow rolling over surface features that would have to lift the entire bike at higher pressures, making lower pressures roll better on some trails by acting like suspension.
In any case, tubeless has about 16 watts less rolling resistance than tubes:
TESTED: Rolling Resistance of Tubeless Mountain Bike Tires
So over a three hour ride, that is about 50Wh of battery difference. So take a tubed bike with a 500Wh battery and make it tubeless, and it is like your battery is now 550Wh. Why wouldn't everyone do that?
Mountain Bike Tires Rolling Resistance Reviews
But, there is evidence that lower pressure can give to allow rolling over surface features that would have to lift the entire bike at higher pressures, making lower pressures roll better on some trails by acting like suspension.
In any case, tubeless has about 16 watts less rolling resistance than tubes:
TESTED: Rolling Resistance of Tubeless Mountain Bike Tires
So over a three hour ride, that is about 50Wh of battery difference. So take a tubed bike with a 500Wh battery and make it tubeless, and it is like your battery is now 550Wh. Why wouldn't everyone do that?
HORSPWR
E*POWAH Master
Me too, this is my go to tyre now.
I am always sceptical about those sort of scats....there are so many variables.
I dont have problems with punctures...cant remember the last one. I vary tyre pressures acclrding to terrain...harder for rocky adventure rides and softer for my local forest trails....but never lower than 26 psi. No rim damage either despite doing rocky trails like The Gap in the Brecons and Cut Gate in the Peak District.
I dont have problems with punctures...cant remember the last one. I vary tyre pressures acclrding to terrain...harder for rocky adventure rides and softer for my local forest trails....but never lower than 26 psi. No rim damage either despite doing rocky trails like The Gap in the Brecons and Cut Gate in the Peak District.
Rich-EMTB-UK
E*POWAH Master
That is just about full price for HX1501 I just bought a pair of the 30mm for £780 price matched to Evans by Leisure Lakes. Also come with both Shimano and DT Swiss rear hubs.
Sorry missed you were talking about XR but the HX versions are great E bike wheels.
- Thread starter
- #26
Rich-EMTB-UK
E*POWAH Master
Hi They don't list them but if you have a local store and pop in they will order direct from DT Swiss and price match if you ask nicely
Rich-EMTB-UK
E*POWAH Master
Sorry mate didn’t realise. I thought US pricing was always cheaper than UK anyway.
Not for bike parts. We can order stuff from Wiggle or similar and get things like Shimano pedals for a lot less than from the US.
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