No boost

[Nings400]

Hey guys have recently updated the firmware on my 2019 trance sx0

have now found that going from level 3 of assistance to level 5 I cannot tell the difference. Is there any way of telling if it’s giving me what I ask for? Amp draw? As riding it I cannot feel the extra power. Cheers

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Hey guys have recently updated the firmware on my 2019 trance sx0

have now found that going from level 3 of assistance to level 5 I cannot tell the difference. Is there any way of telling if it’s giving me what I ask for? Amp draw? As riding it I cannot feel the extra power. Cheers

I have the same impression. I actually took my Trance e+3Pro back to my dealer late last year - and they put it through a diagnostic and even swapped out the Controller for a new one. No change. The chief mechanic said yes, he can feel the mode 4 and 5 power increase but I can't hardly tell.

It may have something to do with a BB axle torque sensor (does the Yamaha SyncDrive Pro motor have one?). If it can't detect enough torque being applied or required it could be bypassing a higher assist mode in order to save un-neccessary battery depletion.

Try shifting to a harder gearing on the flats and hoof it... you may feel a power delivery difference when going up to mode 4 and 5.

Also when climbing up a really steep hill, you might feel a stronger assist on 4 and 5 especially if you don't go to your lowest gear... but only just.

The thing is, I can do just about any thing a trail throws at me on mode 3... provided I shift appropriately. I hardly use 4 and 5 because there's practically no point.

Be interesting to hear from other Giant owners what they think about this...

 

[daddiogreyhead]

I agree I think mine is the same since update would be interested to see if other people have the same problem

 

[iXi]

Wife has the liv vall e+ and she has always said she can't feel any differnce between 3, 4 and 5 assist.

 

[funnel]

Did you make any changes in the Tuning section in RideApp? You could try restoring to factory settings in case you changed something unintentionally.

 

[Nings400]

Interesting. I can feel from 1-3 it’s a big change.
But 3-5 is nothing. Which is strange as 3 is 200% and 5 is 360%. You’d think you’d notice the 160% difference.
Have tried adjusting the slider too which does change like it should but mode 5 just feels the same as 3. I have had a crash recently which damaged my controller. So I might order a new one to make sure it’s not that

 

[Nings400]

Did you make any changes in the Tuning section in RideApp? You could try restoring to factory settings in case you changed something unintentionally.

Hey mate. Yeah restored to default and tried other things with that

 

[Pdoz]

The original factory settings from 3 to 5 were pretty close jumps on a % basis, from memory 250 / 300/360 % ? The biggest difference was the high cadence support , with the old level 3 dropping support significantly at 70 then in the higher levels it went out towards 90 cadence - this felt like more power because you could hold a lower gear longer.

I wonder if the latest upgrade has given the 2020 high cadence support to the 2019 motor, so what you are really feeling is a more versatile level 3 assistance?

The easiest way to tell is ride up a long hill in a medium gear, if you end up spinning the cranks crazy fast with the motor still helping, then my hunch is right.

 

[lharpel1]

Glad I read this, I have told my mate ( chatting as we go uphill about what Modes we are in ) that 4 and 5 do not really work. So it seems this is the same for everyone. 2019 SX 0 Pro as well, I am sure it was not like this when I first got it ! But may be I am wrong.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I think we should all notify or at least email Giant about this. Surely it’s an easy fix for them for the next firmware upgrade?

But who... Giant website, or local dealership/importer, or LBS?

 

[simonk]

I wonder if the latest upgrade has given the 2020 high cadence support to the 2019 motor, so what you are really feeling is a more versatile level 3 assistance?

There might be something in that... except, I thought the PW-X and PW-X2 were mechanically different (the X2 having a different cadence support curve to its predecessor). However, if the 2020 software has been pasted over the 2019 motors and the two don’t really work together, that could be what we’re feeling...?‍
I have to say my 19 Trance 1 doesn’t feel like the rocket it did when I first got it, but I guess I’d have put that down to mileage. I can feel a difference between 3, 4 and 5 but it’s subtle. Like @GrandPaBrogan I tend to leave mine on 3 or 2 for the majority of a ride and rarely call on 4 or 5.
I’m not convinced the auto mode on my neighbours 20 Trance 1 is working as it should either, although he thinks it’s OK. The performance of our two bikes is more or less identical actually... I can’t really tell if his supports higher cadences than mine, we tend to peg each other over a variety of terrain and our battery life is like for like.
My only complaint over what’s otherwise been a superb bike is the software side of things.

 

[KuRi]

To really test the high levels you need to find a very steep climb or something similar and use a very small force on the pedals. This is because the bike gives a 75%-360% of the power you are providing, but with a limit of course... the max power the motor can give

For example, if you are at level 3 and providing a high torque on the pedals with your legs, the bike will give (as an example) a 200% of that power. If this is already giving the max the motor can handle, levels 4 and 5 won't give you more power

However if you are providing a small quantity of power with your legs, at level 5 (360%) you will notice the bike is giving you a lot of power in return.

Not sure if I explained it well, it should be easier with a chart

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

To really test the high levels you need to find a very steep climb or something similar and use a very small force on the pedals. This is because the bike gives a 75%-360% of the power you are providing, but with a limit of course... the max power the motor can give

For example, if you are at level 3 and providing a high torque on the pedals with your legs, the bike will give (as an example) a 200% of that power. If this is already giving the max the motor can handle, levels 4 and 5 won't give you more power

However if you are providing a small quantity of power with your legs, at level 5 (360%) you will notice the bike is giving you a lot of power in return.

Not sure if I explained it well, it should be easier with a chart

I must try that. That’s the inverse of our instincts. So on 4 & 5 the more we pedal the harder we make it for ourselves? And the less effort we apply, the more motor assistance we get?

 

[KuRi]

That's not how I would interpret my explanation xD

Let's suppose the max power of the motor is 250W, then think about it like this:

Level 1 at 100%:
You give 50W, the motor gives 50W
You give 100W, the motor gives 100W

Level 3 at 200%:
You give 50W, the motor gives 100W
You give 100W, the motor gives 200W
You give 125W, the motor gives 250W

Level 5 at 350%:
You give 50W, the motor gives 175W
You give 75W, the motor gives ~ 250W
you give 100W, the motor would give 350W, but it is limited to 250W, so it gives 250W as well

Then, if you are pedaling while giving >=125W, it does not matter if you are at level 3 or 4 or 5, because the bike will give 250W always. However, while pedaling at 50W, the bike will assist you much more at high levels. Do not mix this value with the max cadence value. You can be pedaling at a lot of cadence while giving a low power.

do you know what I mean?