New to emtb but converted! Thoughts and questions

[HeatproofGenie]

I'm looking to get my first emtb. I'm in Colorado, US and ebikes here are just starting to trickle in. They are allowed on a provisional basis on the majority of trails I ride and after demoing two bikes (more on that) I'm bitten and *need* an ebike now. I have two young kids and don't have a ton of free time for huge rides anymore. I race enduro and absolutely love how an ebike lets me get 2x-3x as many descents as on a typical ride. Big game changer for me. Most of our climbs are around 670m in one go so doing them over and over takes a lot of time and energy.

I've demoed a Pivot Shuttle for one day and Commencal Meta Power 29 for four days. Of the two I actually liked the Commencal much better as it descended more like a normal enduro bike.

The pivot was very good but I felt it was let down by the plus tires, lots of uncontrolled rebound going on. I saw on a youtube that someone was riding a Shuttle with 29" wheels but that's adding more money to a very expensive bike. No bottle cage on it was too bad. I had a load of fun mobbing about being a hooligan on it in my front yard and driveway but on trail it had some issues. Personally I think the chain stays are too short. It just wanted to lift the front wheel on any steep climb and being able to climb really steep stuff is a big plus for bikes IMO. Also the mentioned plus wheels.

The Commencal was also very good and really behaved like a well sorted bike. The 29" setup led to a seemingly quite efficient chassis that covered ground quite effectively. It's descending manners were impeccable although I'd like to see more travel in the fork than 150mm. The long (for an enduro bike) chain stays @ 453mm led to great stability descending and awesome climbing performance. Traction is not quite as great climbing as a plus setup but I'll take that negative it just makes one have to use better technique. I thought the bike was quite maneuverable even with it's length and weight, scandi flicks were no problem to get going and really helped the bike whip around. I didn't Strava my rides but I'd imagine that my descending times were pretty close to bests on normal enduro bikes I've owned (Yeti SB5.5, Enduro 29, Transition Sentinel).

So my dilemma is should I wait to get a 2019 Meta Power 29 with better parts spec (Fox Float X2 and Fox 36 (e specific)) and uses Sram Eagle 12 Spd or is the 2018 with Sram Ex1 8 Spd a better emtb drivetrain? Commencal says the 19's will be here in September. I can wait that long but it will be hard. I really want an ebike now! I don't like the Shimano XT brakes and Schwalbe tires on the '19 as I prefer Sram Codes and Maxxis tires but that can be dealt with. On the '18 I don't love but don't hate the Rockshox products, they are good but I've ridden and know Fox stuff. The EX1 drivetrain is an unknown to me. Is it stronger? It has some large gaps in the casette, does that lead to increased battery drain when riding outside of ideal rpm? If it's truly stronger than that might make a difference as I feel emtbs are *hard* on the drivetrain.

 

[R120]

Welcome!

Personally i would wait for the 19, mainly for the groupset - the Shimano motor is very capable in the ECO mode, especially if you utilise the gears of the bike with it like you would on a usual bike, and having the 12 speed on it is going to help you get better range. In higher power modes you use a smaller spread of gears because the motor compensates, but this is at the expense of battery range.

Its very easy on an emtb's to change the power modes rather then the gears, and forget that the gears are still there to do a job!

The Shimano responds well to uping the cadence of your riding, and i believe that a 12 speed is more conducive to this than EX 1. Nothing wrong with EX1, but given that next year SRAM are doing emtb optimised versions of their one-by drivetrains i don't think taking the abuse is an issue any more.

Most important thing is to treat buying an EMTB as you would a normal bike, buy the bike that feels best to you, regardless of the specs, as no point having a piece of bike porn if you don't like riding it.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Thanks!

Good input regarding the EX1 group and how Sram is moving forward with Eagle for ebikes.

Annecdotally my experience also definitely mirrors that the Shimano setup likes high cadence, good to hear that relates well to better battery use. I confess to a lot of trail and boost mode usage during my five days of riding. I did ride it some in Eco but it seemed to plod along a bit in but I didn't do anything to ECO when I connected with the Tube app, so ECO was on stock setting.

Definitely agree about buying the bike that feels best, hence why I've been demoing many. Also going to try a Turbo Kenevo as I like how it's setup. Anyone know if it can accommodate 29" wheels? I know it has their 6fattie geometry which I think can do both but do not see 29" mentioned anywhere regarding the Kenevo.

 

[Dax]

In my experience, XT brakes are far superior to codes. I rode a pair of the last gen M785 for a couple of weeks of bike parks in Canada, about 250miles of DH pretty much dragging them the whole time and they worked perfectly. It was something like 100,000 ft of decent, one day we did 22,000 in four runs. I then rode them for another year in the UK before they needed bleeding, still haven't changed the pads. I swapped them for m8000s because the levers are a bit nicer and they've been perfect for a couple of years.

That said, the codes my kenevo are still working so far, although theyll get replaced with saints the day they go spongey.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Well brakes tend to be a topic similar to religion or politics. We've all got our preferences. I've had very good luck my sets of Code RSCs and Code R.
Pinkbike did a pretty good comparison last year Ridden and Rated: 5 Four-Piston Brakes - Pinkbike

All that said I like Sram brakes a bit more because of their better modulation. Shimano hasn't been as good in this area, their brakes are much more on/off. My riding areas often are very loose and dry and modulation is key in these conditions.

On an emtb though I think that due to the increased chassis weight all brakes have better modulation as there is so much more weight pushing into the trail hence more traction (usually).

I have a set of new Saints sitting around so I can always fit those if I don't like the XT's if I go the '19 Commencal route.

 

[Dax]

Well brakes tend to be a topic similar to religion or politics.

Hah! Yes that's very true ? The difference is I'll happily talk to strangers about brakes

Have fun testing the Kenevo, I'm really interested to hear how you think it compares to the commencal.

 

[Al Boneta]

Hah! Yes that's very true ? The difference is I'll happily talk to strangers about brakes

Have fun testing the Kenevo, I'm really interested to hear how you think it compares to the commencal.

It’s a really hard topic. There isn’t any particularly bad brakes on the market, and it’s sometimes hit or miss for even the big guys for consistency.

Bottom line if you find something that works for you that’s awesome, but don’t be a dick because someone’s using brakes you don’t like.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Hah! Yes that's very true ? The difference is I'll happily talk to strangers about brakes

Have fun testing the Kenevo, I'm really interested to hear how you think it compares to the commencal.

:lol:

Will report on the Kenevo provided I can get a demo. Having a hard time tracking one down at the moment.

 

[drjarvis2003]

Xt brakes are under powered and I had to move onto zee. I'm under 11 stone though. You might need something stronger. As for plus tyres bouncing around, just put inserts like vittoria air liners in and it will use up half of the volume.

 

[knut7]

The pivot was very good but I felt it was let down by the plus tires, lots of uncontrolled rebound going on. I saw on a youtube that someone was riding a Shuttle with 29" wheels but that's adding more money to a very expensive bike. No bottle cage on it was too bad. I had a load of fun mobbing about being a hooligan on it in my front yard and driveway but on trail it had some issues. Personally I think the chain stays are too short. It just wanted to lift the front wheel on any steep climb and being able to climb really steep stuff is a big plus for bikes IMO. Also the mentioned plus wheels.

The Shuttle has Maxxis 2.8s on 40mm internal width rims. Pivot has made lots of good decisions when designing that bike, but I think they should have gone with i35 mm rims. The first time I tested plus emtbs, they had Nobby Nic 2.8s on them. They were great for riding extremely steep stuff and wet rocks, but I kept noticing how big the tyres were. The Maxxis 2.8s are ever so slightly narrower, and my first time one a Maxxis plus emtb I forgot I was riding a Plus bike. What I'm getting at is that I think there's a very fine line between great and too much. The Shuttle was okay for the steep and narrow trails close to home, but now I ocationally noticed the size of the tyres. Suddenly a DH track was built in my town, and I visited it a few times. I ended up running the rebound of the rear shock 2 clicks from max to handle the jumps! But I couldn't go down the trail sections with rebound close to max! So I swappd the tyres. Now I'm running 2.6" Minions and allthough I haven't ridden them much yet, my initial impression is that the bike feels more nimble and I'm not plagued by runaway rebound. They still measure 65-66mm on the i40mm rims, so they're close to Maxxis 2.8s on i35 rim.

I also experimented quite a bit with seating position to make the bike a great climber. It probably will never be as good as a Trek with ~480mm chainstays, but I'm happy with the end result. I swapped the stem for a 5mm longer one, dropped the stem a few mm's and pushed the seat slightly forward. Just minor adjustments that didn't really affect down hill performance. It's a good climber, and it's a nimble bike with a pretty short rear end.