Levo Gen 3 New to E bikes. Trying to understand this pedal resistance with the Brose motor.

[4th4]

I've heard this discussed quite a few times. That resistive affect you feel, like pedaling through pudding, or mud, or dragging brakes, etc.

But the problem I'm having is, I feel like this bike pushes back too much. For instance, on my analog days, i got used to pedaling into trail features in a relatively high gear (smaller ring). This allowed me to crank harder and accelerate faster into jumps or obstacles that I knew I needed more speed for. I would also do this dropping into trails that started out flat so I could gain momentum as soon as possible.

But... the problem with this bike is, if I'm in too high of a gear (smaller chainring) the motor immediately pushes back and it won't let me generate my own torque. If I up-shift, it helps a little but throws my cadence off. I don't want to pedal frantically to feel like Im gaining momentum.
In Turbo or Trail mode its only slightly less push-backy but what if I want full disengagement?

Could this be a tuning setting in the Motion Control?
Apart from this, I really love this bike.

 

[RebornRider]

Sounds more like a defective motor to me. Put the bike on a stand, make sure it's off (maybe unplug the battery connector), and rotate the chainring with your hand. Mine rotates as easily as an acoustic bike. There is essentially no motor drag.

 

[maynard]

Ur question really confused me . Makes no sense. Sorry .

 

[Alexbn921]

The motor needs cadence to work.

You need to be in the right gear regardless of the bike.

 

[unclezz]

I've heard this discussed quite a few times. That resistive affect you feel, like pedaling through pudding, or mud, or dragging brakes, etc.

But the problem I'm having is, I feel like this bike pushes back too much. For instance, on my analog days, i got used to pedaling into trail features in a relatively high gear (smaller ring). This allowed me to crank harder and accelerate faster into jumps or obstacles that I knew I needed more speed for. I would also do this dropping into trails that started out flat so I could gain momentum as soon as possible.

But... the problem with this bike is, if I'm in too high of a gear (smaller chainring) the motor immediately pushes back and it won't let me generate my own torque. If I up-shift, it helps a little but throws my cadence off. I don't want to pedal frantically to feel like Im gaining momentum.
In Turbo or Trail mode its only slightly less push-backy but what if I want full disengagement?

Could this be a tuning setting in the Motion Control?
Apart from this, I really love this bike.

I tried Shimano and Bosch motors and as far as I can say the Brose motor has close to no drag/resistance compared to the others.

Levo SL (first gen, I guess same is with the new one) is well known to have a 3 watt resistance... basically none. But I don't think the Brose is much different.

I agree with @Alexbn921 ...

 

[Montana St Alum]

I rode with my wife while she was on a my mountain bike (she wanted to try my 29er) and I was on my E-bike (Giant Elite 3). I rode it with the motor off just to try it out, but ended up going 4 miles or so before we swapped out and she rode the E-bike with the motor on. Other than being heavy, my E-bike rode just like my mountain bike, as in no resistance that I could detect from the motor.

 

[Tetley]

The motor should not provide any resistance and stop you pedalling, the sprag clutch only allows the motor to provide drive, not resistance, if it does, the sprag clutch is faulty, and isn't disengaging.
The only resistance to pedalling when the motor is off or overridden, is the resistance of the crank shaft bearings, sprag clutch and drivetrain to the rear wheel, which isn't a lot. Although if you've been riding in turbo mode, and switch the power down or off, it 'feels' like you're pedalling in deep mud!

 

[4th4]

The motor should not provide any resistance and stop you pedalling, the sprag clutch only allows the motor to provide drive, not resistance, if it does, the sprag clutch is faulty, and isn't disengaging.
The only resistance to pedalling when the motor is off or overridden, is the resistance of the crank shaft bearings, sprag clutch and drivetrain to the rear wheel, which isn't a lot. Although if you've been riding in turbo mode, and switch the power down or off, it 'feels' like you're pedalling in deep mud!

I wonder if there’s something wrong with the motor then, because when the bike is off, ie pedal it from the garage to my car, I get that deep mud effect.

So what you’re saying is that with the clutch disengaged it should leave little to no resistance when pedaling. Which this does not.

Basically if I were to loose power on the mountain and have to pedal out it would be a resistance nightmare. And power off, the harder I pedal the more it resists.

If this is a motor/clutch issue it would make sense why I feel resistance while pedaling into features

 

[RebornRider]

We are all trying to tell you that a properly functioning Levo will pedal the same as a 50 pound acoustic bike when the motor is off. If yours does not, something is wrong with it.

The other thing we are telling you is, after you get used to the assistance, turning it off will feel like pedaling through oatmeal. That is just your brain messing with you.

 

[Janisj]

take the chain off and test how easy cranks rotate. If there is no resistance, change your brain. Everything else here is lost time

 

[Bearing Man]

take the chain off and test how easy cranks rotate. If there is no resistance, change your brain. Everything else here is lost time

Agree 100%

 

[mustclime]

Just spin all the time, you want the motor to provide power, spin the dam peddles. These motors do not lug well, you need a 60-90 strokes per minute to get the power. When I got my Kenevo it was really hard to get through tech rock gardens but once I learned stick the chain in bigger cog and spin the bike became a monster truck. Spin , spin , spin…… or sell the bike.

 

[Rosemount]

I rode with my wife while she was on a my mountain bike (she wanted to try my 29er) and I was on my E-bike (Giant Elite 3). I rode it with the motor off just to try it out, but ended up going 4 miles or so before we swapped out and she rode the E-bike with the motor on. Other than being heavy, my E-bike rode just like my mountain bike, as in no resistance that I could detect from the motor.

Not too much resistance on the flat . Climbing is another story .

 

[Montana St Alum]

Not too much resistance on the flat . Climbing is another story .

Well, no resistance from the motor. Gravity was a different matter, but my pace was nice and slow with my lovely bride! It was around 800' of climbing though, from about 5900' to 6700'.

 

[4th4]

I think what I’m feeling is the governor.
I found a post on this forum regarding derestrictors and someone described the exact issue that I’m feeling.
One person called it the “lasso-effect”; the bike trying to reel you back in. It a dangerous feeling when you know you’re slow coming into a jump and taking a couple extra cranks just slows you down more and even pitches you forward.

 

[Ark]

I tried Shimano and Bosch motors and as far as I can say the Brose motor has close to no drag/resistance compared to the others.

I don't notice any drag on my Bosch cx gen 4
I was changing my chain earlier and was surprised how easy the pedals turn with barely any resistance

 

[Bummers]

I think what I’m feeling is the governor.
I found a post on this forum regarding derestrictors and someone described the exact issue that I’m feeling.
One person called it the “lasso-effect”; the bike trying to reel you back in. It a dangerous feeling when you know you’re slow coming into a jump and taking a couple extra cranks just slows you down more and even pitches you forward.

It doesn't slow you down more, you're just expecting the acceleration from the motor assist which is no longer there, you're cranking with leg power only but your expecting the huge torque burst from the motor. You will go faster, just not like you're expecting to.

 

[RebornRider]

just slows you down more and even pitches you forward.

Speed restriction only decreases the amount of motor assistance. It is not a governor. It does not limit your speed. I exceed 30 mph on my regular ride on a downhill stretch of tarmac, and I'm pedaling like a madman to keep up with the bike. Cadence of 120 or so. I don't notice any resistance other than my own lack of fitness!

You seem to want to believe that your bike is doing something to slow you down. Unless it is defective, it is not slowing you down. It's just that the motor will not provide any assistance above the cutoff speed. When the assistance drops from 600 Watts to zero Watts as you cross the assistance threshold, it may feel like the bike is trying to slow you down. But that is an illusion. Repeat after me, "That is an ILLUSION!" It is not really happening. (Unless you bike is defective.)

The reality is, if you+motor were putting 800 Watts into the chainring at just below the assistance limit, you are not going to maintain that 800 Watts on leg power alone after you exceed the assistance limit.

 

[Montana St Alum]

^^^Take the red pill!

 

[Base]

I've heard this discussed quite a few times. That resistive affect you feel, like pedaling through pudding, or mud, or dragging brakes, etc.

But the problem I'm having is, I feel like this bike pushes back too much. For instance, on my analog days, i got used to pedaling into trail features in a relatively high gear (smaller ring). This allowed me to crank harder and accelerate faster into jumps or obstacles that I knew I needed more speed for. I would also do this dropping into trails that started out flat so I could gain momentum as soon as possible.

But... the problem with this bike is, if I'm in too high of a gear (smaller chainring) the motor immediately pushes back and it won't let me generate my own torque. If I up-shift, it helps a little but throws my cadence off. I don't want to pedal frantically to feel like Im gaining momentum.
In Turbo or Trail mode its only slightly less push-backy but what if I want full disengagement?

Could this be a tuning setting in the Motion Control?
Apart from this, I really love this bike.

I have the syncdrive pro and get pedal resistance when it's powered off. It's a weird thing cause when I stop pedalling then start again a second later it seems to lose that resistance.

With it on I only really feel the pedal resistance or would be be better called a speed governer on the road when I start pedalling and going faster then the motor is set to and can feel it working against me.

My other cheaper ebike with a rear hub motor doesn't feel like the syncdrive when off. It feels just like it is a heavy pig of a bike to pedal.

 

[Montana St Alum]

I have the syncdrive pro and get pedal resistance when it's powered off. It's a weird thing cause when I stop pedalling then start again a second later it seems to lose that resistance.

With it on I only really feel the pedal resistance or would be be better called a speed governer on the road when I start pedalling and going faster then the motor is set to and can feel it working against me.

My other cheaper ebike with a rear hub motor doesn't feel like the syncdrive when off. It feels just like it is a heavy pig of a bike to pedal.

Interesting. It may be that the interconnect works a little differently in the case where you are exceeding the speed limiter. When I'm on my Elite3 biking with my wife, I set the motor to off (with the power on) and it feels like a 47-pound mountain bike. The same is true if I turn the power off completely, but that's at a slow speed, not exceeding the limit like you describe. When I'm above the limit pedaling, I also don't notice a drag, but I don't have another bike to compare mine to like you do, so I'm not sure what's going on.

 

[RebornRider]

I noticed something about my 4 year old Levo yesterday that relates to this topic. I was on a slight downhill and in no particular hurry at that moment. I was pedaling, but with almost zero torque because the down slope was enough to maintain my speed. I could hear the motor cut in and out. There was zero difference in the feel of the pedaling "resistance" between motor on and providing assistance (and making its whine) and motor off (no assistance and no whine).

I conclude from this that my old Levo has essentially no resistance when the motor is off.

(But I already knew that cuz there is no motor resistance when I clean and oil my chain on the bike stand.)