New Shimano ep8 Motor upgrade?

[redrhino]

Alright, the new shimano motor is announced and it sounds like it uses the same mounts First Ride: Shimano's New Steps EP8 eMTB System - Pinkbike

Will upgrading a current decoy to the new motor be feasible or do we think it will be too much of a pain and costly to be worth it? Anyone see the cost of the motor alone anywhere?

 

[leftside]

According to YT we won't know until sometime next year.

 

[nasamorpheus]

Alright, the new shimano motor is announced and it sounds like it uses the same mounts First Ride: Shimano's New Steps EP8 eMTB System - Pinkbike

Will upgrading a current decoy to the new motor be feasible or do we think it will be too much of a pain and costly to be worth it? Anyone see the cost of the motor alone anywhere?

I believe they won't let us upgrade only motors, they want to sell us 2021 bikes..

 

[Armeniandave]

Well I'm on my second motor now so maybe when this one dies I can pay an upgrade fee and get the new one!!

 

[roQer]

Tester attested the new shimano motor a clunking sound if you pull the chain.

Shimano EP8 & STEPS E8000 motor direct comparison – How much better is the new Shimano ebike motor? | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

I know this sound from Bosch gen 4 motor. It’s really annoying riding rough stuff to the point that I abandoned the idea to replace my Decoy with a Rail while the Decoy was at YT like for 2 moths for a replacement battery. Deal braker for me if Shimano isn’t going to fix this.

 

[Doomanic]

I believe they won't let us upgrade only motors, they want to sell us 2021 bikes..

I think you're right.

 

[redrhino]

ugh, bummer.

 

[Pivot]

No surprise here, OEMs come first, after market comes distant second.

If you were running the business, would you first satisfy new bike makers, who can switch to more powerful Bosch AND spend $millions on advertising and indirectly prising your gear, or would you prioritise enthusiasts that would upgrade few bikes in a shed.

I say, let the OEMs stress-test the new motor on new bikes, and when production ramps-up to satisfy OEM demand, we will get the motors.

 

[Pivot]

Shimano pulled-off a coup! By keeping the same motor mounting points, the OEMs can switch to new gear more cost effectively.

 

[Hugh-Jazz]

The ebike-mtb mag also said the wiring and connectors have changed. That might mean even the battery would have to be changed, along with the shifter and display. Until kits are available, it seems like new bike time if you want the EP8.

Many of the new models from other brands are looking more like the Decoy, going mixed wheel size. My Decoy still rides great so I’m not sure I need to be an early adopter of the EP8. Of course, I am reading these threads the day it was released! ;-)

 

[baldiebenty]

I'm not an engineer so can someone explain why the torque sensor would need to be "set for your bike"?
Surely it works off torque applied to the crank and all of that is just part of the motor upon which whatever the bike would have no unique effect?
Common sense would seem to suggest that the same motor without any special programming would be going to all manufacturers.

 

[Hugh-Jazz]

I'm not an engineer so can someone explain why the torque sensor would need to be "set for your bike"?
Surely it works off torque applied to the crank and all of that is just part of the motor upon which whatever the bike would have no unique effect?
Common sense would seem to suggest that the same motor without any special programming would be going to all manufacturers.

Probably similar to the ”motor angle” setting of the current motor. It doesn’t seem like it would be too hard to adjust settings if Shimano would give the ability to the end user. It is unlikely that this setting is done anywhere but as a saved setting.

 

[ebnash]

Also, new software to run the new motor, so most likely, the handlebar switch and display would also have to be purchased. Not to mention, new battery integration since I'm assuming the batteries will not be interchangeable.

My pure assumption is that the whole process will be cost prohibitive, especially since it doesn't sound like Shimano wants to support sales for the purpose of upgrades.

I can't say I blame them.

Not to mention, that Rob's video review of the new motor wasn't exactly life changing. That whole rattling thing would probably be a deal breaker for me. I'm hoping that is just specific to his test bike and not the new drivetrain package.

 

[steve_sordy]

I would never have considered an ep8 as an upgrade to the e8000 in the same way I might upgrade wheels or a shock (what would you do with the old motor?)
I am very happy with the e8000. What I want to be able to do is to buy another e8000 motor when the one I've got fails out of warranty.

 

[westcoastmtbr]

No company is going to be keen on letting you upgrade your old 8000 to the ep8. The first question will be, when exactly would you even be able to get a hold of one of these? 1 year, 2? Then you do all the rewire, buy the motor and switch, then hopefully get a solid install. When you figure it all out, your just better off buying a new bike and selling the old one. Plus Warranty?? Ugh!

 

[Macone]

I've just had a new E8000 fitted to my focus jam2 under warranty. Not concerned about next time as I see focus have just released a new jam2 with EP8 motor. Its the exact same bike as mine including the same main battery and tec pac. Only difference is motor, wiring and display/controller. My first motor lasted me 5300kms and 18 months. I'm confident I'll be able to source an EP8 18 months from now, including wiring etc. At the end of the day, its just "parts" that I know will fit. "Glass half full". Let's ride!!

 

[TransAmMan]

My only complaint with the E8000 motor is the LAG time for the power applied to the cranks to "kick in". Try a slow rolling wheelie drop off a rock with last second crank spin to lift the front wheel and see (OK .. do NOT do this as bad things WILL happen ... I lost over 2 months of riding due to this lag time and unsuspecting power surge coming on a fraction too late leading to a crash (broken finger).

The new EP8 allows you to program the lag time .. great job Shimano !! This will be the MAIN reason I buy a new bike next year with the EP8 motor. If you do not perform "freeride" style of riding (now there is an old term for those who remember) and only use the motor to climb, the E8000 seems to be a proven workhorse for the most part.

Although this knocking sound is concerning .. wondering if its due to the magnesium amplifying sounds ??

YT is still the front runner (due to mullet configuration... and hope that they adopt the Shimano 630w battery .. I'll give up 70w (from the rumored YT 700wh battery) for the ability to have serviced by Shimano .. albeit they claim this will change)

Interesting to se what else is launched between now and Jan 2021.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Im also wondering why the tilt of the motor would effect the torque censor? If thats the case wouldnt going up a steep hill effect it? Or adding longer travel fork or different wheel or tire size or all of that combined ?

 

[HOMIE5000]

Maybe a part out bike with the new motor might be in order .

 

[baldiebenty]

Now there's an idea for a video, 2 bikes. 1 E8000 & 1 EP8 and then go through swapping over the components and see what works or doesn't.

 

[ebnash]

Quick, start your "Go Fund Me" page for this test.

 

[westcoastmtbr]

Reminds me of the car industry. Audi did a minor body change to the Q5 from 2012 to 2013. The "owner blogs" were filled with people trying to retrofit the new LED lights front and rear. Heck, they were even trying to retrofit new bumper and more to cheat the system and say, hey it's as good as a 2013! In the end, it was a total cluster f*&k as the cost outweighed the advantages. For example: YT Decoy. You have a US Decoy today that you could sell a base model for 4k+ (great time to sell with shortages in the market) when new it was $5700 including tax and ship. By the time you get a new motor ($900+), wiring harness ($200 best), switch ($150 best), labor ($100 best), voided warranty ($ hell on wheels). So just sell your old bike, buy the new ebike with ep8. Most likely it will come with 38 fork, and 12 speed kit and it's new with a warranty. Do the math and you'll be way ahead of the game.
My thoughts, get the ep8 now, and it'll only get better with firmware upgrades, and ride it for 3+ years then the ep9 will come out.
Am I off base??

 

[steve_sordy]

......................
My thoughts, get the ep8 now, and it'll only get better with firmware upgrades, and ride it for 3+ years then the ep9 will come out.
Am I off base??

Who would buy your old bike with the e8000 with uncertainty over motor supply?
Who would buy your next old bike with ep8, with the same uncertainty over ep8 motor supply?

Because if Shimano will stop production of e8000 without a big stock of motors, then they will do it again with the ep8.

All Shimano has to do is to make an announcement that will stop the uncertainty, one way or the other. Then everyone will know what to do.

 

[Pivot]

I suspect that Shimano will stop production of 7000 and keep 8000 going, as a second tier model.

 

[baldiebenty]

I suspect that Shimano will stop production of 7000 and keep 8000 going, as a second tier model.

I think they've already said that they're continuing production of the 7000 and stopping production of the 8000, that's what we're all whining about.

As I've had an E8000 motor'd Decoy for about 4 weeks I don't want the EP8, I don't feel any need for more power, it's the uncertainty around any future warranty issues that bugs me.

 

[Pivot]

I think they've already said that they're continuing production of the 7000 and stopping production of the 8000, that's what we're all whining about.

As I've had an E8000 motor'd Decoy for about 4 weeks I don't want the EP8, I don't feel any need for more power, it's the uncertainty around any future warranty issues that bugs me.

Thanks BB for amplifying the signal from a large amount of noise
I share your concern and view. I don’t need more power, for now.
However, if my shiny toy breaks, I would want a new motor, even if I have to chip-in.

 

[Mydriaze]

Hello dear Marmite lovers,

Any news about an eventual January event to showcase the new YT with EP8? I've read here on Youtube comments that's something will happen in January:
Problem, I only trust Rob

 

[R120]

Well thinking about it, its inevitable that YT will be bringing out a new EP8 model over the next few months, what's unknown is if its just a version of the current bike, or a whole new model.

 

[TransAmMan]

Well thinking about it, its inevitable that YT will be bringing out a new EP8 model over the next few months, what's unknown is if its just a version of the current bike, or a whole new model.

You have to give credit to YT to be able to keep their bike releases so secretive and along the company lines ..... I want spy shots .. .. I need spy shots. ? ... somebody leak some photos ?

Heck I would even take a photoshopped pic - LOL

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

My only complaint with the E8000 motor is the LAG time for the power applied to the cranks to "kick in". Try a slow rolling wheelie drop off a rock with last second crank spin to lift the front wheel and see (OK .. do NOT do this as bad things WILL happen ... I lost over 2 months of riding due to this lag time and unsuspecting power surge coming on a fraction too late leading to a crash (broken finger).

The new EP8 allows you to program the lag time .. great job Shimano !! This will be the MAIN reason I buy a new bike next year with the EP8 motor. If you do not perform "freeride" style of riding (now there is an old term for those who remember) and only use the motor to climb, the E8000 seems to be a proven workhorse for the most part.

I think that is the big take away with new motors, not that it has got more power but how the power is delivered. I have tested both the EP8 and the Bosch CX with the new software and they both feel more "natural". That man/machine feeling is tighter which is so important, you get the power in the right amount when you need it.