New Cube 140 HPC 2022 750wh - Eco seems underpowered?

[Fatty-at-the-Back]

Hi All,

I'm hoping you guys can help me out with some questions/confusion.

I have just bought a Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 HPC with 750wh battery and have ridden it for 30 miles on my local loop with about 1400ft climbing.

One thing i've noticed is that the Eco mode seems quite underpowered (by default - I have not changed any settings on the Flow app).

I have a Canyon Spectral On. (2019 with Shimano E8000) and i can do the same loop in Eco and clear the climbs - but with the Cube I have to stop halfway up the climb.

So my question is, is it possible that Bosch have set their Eco mode at a lot lower assistance than Shimano on the E8000?

I've ridden them side by side and the Shimano Eco has definitely more assistance than the Bosch.

I love the Cube but I hope this doesn't make me regret switching over to Bosch

Any thoughts/comments/suggestions most welcome!

Cheers

 

[Mikerb]

Gen 4 provides a max of 340% assistance and in Eco the max is 60%, Tour 140%, EMTB 140-340% ( Tour+ is also an option)
I think you will find most riders just select EMTB and leave it there for all off road use.
How powerful ECO ( or any mode) feels is not just a function of how much assistance is available from the motor though. Bike weight, tyres, tyre pressure, suspension settings all make a difference.

 

[devargos]

I had the old bosch on a cube and pretty much never used eco and I can see it being the same on my new mondraker with the 750 bosch

Here's my usage so far.

Tour on road, emtb for most stuff, turbo for climbs I cannot do with my weak legs and spirit.

I wonder if it's worth modification within the flow app of eco to make me wanna use it more but to be honest I'm well happy with emtb mode.

 

[Fatty-at-the-Back]

Thanks for your replies.

I'm a fairly heavy guy and the Eco mode on my Canyon with shimano E8000 is actually quite grunty so I was just expecting the same feel on the Cube with the Bosch - hence why I was quite surprised when I was having to put more effort in.to be expected.

I'll have a play with the Flow app and increase the assistance on Eco and see what its like.

 

[Mikerb]

Why bother...........you paid for a motor and battery ...and 750 w/h at that..........so may as well use it!
ECO on the Gen 4 is essentially a get you home mode if the battery is low but with 750w/h you are probably going to have to do 40 miles plus to get to that stage.

 

[Akiwi]

I love the Eco mode with little assist as I tend to do adventure biking where I want the battery to last as long as possible. Occasionally over 100 km on 1 battery, or up to 2000m vertical. Obviously being able to set the amount of assist would be great. When I did the Transalp with my Son 2 years ago, he was on a Shimano powered bike, and I was on the Cube with Bosch. On long climbs he was always a little faster than me. Battery use was about the same, however he was about 15 kg lighter than me.

 

[nasamorpheus]

Update, use magic tour

 

[urastus]

it's just a what some nerd decided would be a good amount of assistance for eco. Can't you modify it to suit you?

I have a shimano e8000 merida. On my first ride - this is my first emtb - I was amazed at how much assistance it gave on eco - it flew. Within eco's 3 settings, everything was set to high. I soon knocked it all down to med. I also knocked trail down too. Trail is now about the same as what my friend rides on his giant emtb. Eco is what I'm usually in.

 

[devargos]

thought i would come back to this.

At first i thought eco was a bit weak.

after having my bike a while and using it a lot. I have got fitter and realised it was me who was under powered

I now use eco quite a bit not so much for steep climbs I will switch to tour. Its great having the different options I can ride with non ebike friends with it off altogether or in eco. Still love emtb for quick solo blasts or when I'm tired but eco and tour are great for working on fitness and having a different paced different style of ride.

Having the extra option of being able to tune the eco mode will surely suit most riders. I turned mine up at first but have turned eco down to base settings again and love it.

 

[Oddy72]

I had the old bosch on a cube and pretty much never used eco and I can see it being the same on my new mondraker with the 750 bosch

Here's my usage so far.

View attachment 81652

Tour on road, emtb for most stuff, turbo for climbs I cannot do with my weak legs and spirit.

I wonder if it's worth modification within the flow app of eco to make me wanna use it more but to be honest I'm well happy with emtb mode.

Hi mate, can see your stats on the image are in miles , how do I change mine from km to miles, ? I can’t figure it out ? My kiox 300 say miles, but flow app say KM ? Please help cheers

 

[Ben818719]

I had the old bosch on a cube and pretty much never used eco and I can see it being the same on my new mondraker with the 750 bosch

Here's my usage so far.

View attachment 81652

Tour on road, emtb for most stuff, turbo for climbs I cannot do with my weak legs and spirit.

I wonder if it's worth modification within the flow app of eco to make me wanna use it more but to be honest I'm well happy with emtb mode.

sorry to hi jack post but I’m looking into getting a cube or mondraker and curious to know yours thoughts on the mondraker after having a cube?

 

[Oddy72]

sorry to hi jack post but I’m looking into getting a cube or mondraker and curious to know yours thoughts on the mondraker after having a cube?

I have a mondraker chaser R. Although my range and battery % don’t seem to good at the min, the bike is great , I’m so pleased I upgraded for a hard tail so full sus .

 

[emtbPhil]

I've fallen in love with Tour+ mode since I got it enabled
I used to use eco on flat trails and jump up to EMTB for the climbier stuff but on most rides now I just whack it in tour+ and forget, it's got a nice dynamic range so it saves battery on the flats but encourages you to spin up on climbs where I felt EMTB/Turbo were just cheat modes lol

 

[devargos]

Hi mate, can see your stats on the image are in miles , how do I change mine from km to miles, ? I can’t figure it out ? My kiox 300 say miles, but flow app say KM ? Please help cheers

you have to change your settings on your phone. Its not in the app rather the actual phone settings the location i believe or region it is change to english UK

I not sure about iphone but it works on my samsung I can change to km or miles doing this.

 

[BeBiker]

They should have called it "Zero"
It cancels out the extra weight and drag of the Emtb.

 

[RipGroove]

I had a go on a mates Orbea Wild recently which has the exact same battery, motor and display as my Cube Stereo SL Hybrid 160 and the ECO mode on the Orbea was noticeably more powerful than the ECO mode on my Cube, we did a 20 odd mile off road route and he could spend most of the time in the ECO and Tour mode whereas I was in Tour and EMTB modes which resulted in my battery dropping bars before his did. He did a solo 28 miles yesterday of mixed terrain and only used 20% battery! Mine would probably use 60% battery on that same ride because my ECO is so sluggish.

Sure there could be other things at play like 29" wheels on the Orbea vs 27.5" wheels on the Cube and maybe the fact that the Orbea is brand new and the Cube is 2 years old but hopping between the two bikes ECO was definitely more powerful on the Orbea to the point where I've actually booked my Cube in to have the firmware version checked and updated if need be (bought it used so I have no idea if it's on the latest firmware or not).

ECO mode on the Orbea is definitely a viable mode to use rather than just a get-you-home mode which is what it feels like on the Cube.

 

[Akiwi]

I had a go on a mates Orbea Wild recently which has the exact same battery, motor and display as my Cube Stereo SL Hybrid 160 and the ECO mode on the Orbea was noticeably more powerful than the ECO mode on my Cube, we did a 20 odd mile off road route and he could spend most of the time in the ECO and Tour mode whereas I was in Tour and EMTB modes which resulted in my battery dropping bars before his did. He did a solo 28 miles yesterday of mixed terrain and only used 20% battery! Mine would probably use 60% battery on that same ride because my ECO is so sluggish.

Sure there could be other things at play like 29" wheels on the Orbea vs 27.5" wheels on the Cube and maybe the fact that the Orbea is brand new and the Cube is 2 years old but hopping between the two bikes ECO was definitely more powerful on the Orbea to the point where I've actually booked my Cube in to have the firmware version checked and updated if need be (bought it used so I have no idea if it's on the latest firmware or not).

ECO mode on the Orbea is definitely a viable mode to use rather than just a get-you-home mode which is what it feels like on the Cube.

I guess it depends on the type of riding you do. I want an Eco mode to be minimal power so I can prolong battery life for a long as possible, and maybe just even out the extra weight of the emtb over a normal bike. If I am riding 80KM and 2000m climb on a ride, I need a minimal assist to be minimal.

 

[RipGroove]

I guess it depends on the type of riding you do. I want an Eco mode to be minimal power so I can prolong battery life for a long as possible, and maybe just even out the extra weight of the emtb over a normal bike. If I am riding 80KM and 2000m climb on a ride, I need a minimal assist to be minimal.

Agreed, that's the issue I find with my Cube though, in ECO it feels like I'm riding through treacle and not like a normal MTB. The Orbea felt like a light MTB while in ECO mode so it's perfectly offsetting the extra weight.

 

[Akiwi]

Agreed, that's the issue I find with my Cube though, in ECO it feels like I'm riding through treacle and not like a normal MTB. The Orbea felt like a light MTB while in ECO mode so it's perfectly offsetting the extra weight.

Is it though?
I make a point of starting all rides without any assist (If it doesn't start straight up hill). Then I get used to the bike without any motor assist. After that eco feels great.
I was also the opinion that Eco was almost nothing, then recently I did a 2200m Vertical climb on Lake Garda in Italy to Mt. Altissimo. To make it I had to limit myself to Eco. I felt like I was going backwards, but I was overtaking a lot of the Analog cyclists, so obviously it was doing something.
OTOH, the Super bikers who must have been training for the Olympics went past me like I was going backwards (Without a motor). And of course, the Turbo Cowboys with their rented e-MTB's out for a spin blasted past me too.

 

[RipGroove]

Is it though?
I make a point of starting all rides without any assist (If it doesn't start straight up hill). Then I get used to the bike without any motor assist. After that eco feels great.
I was also the opinion that Eco was almost nothing, then recently I did a 2200m Vertical climb on Lake Garda in Italy to Mt. Altissimo. To make it I had to limit myself to Eco. I felt like I was going backwards, but I was overtaking a lot of the Analog cyclists, so obviously it was doing something.
OTOH, the Super bikers who must have been training for the Olympics went past me like I was going backwards (Without a motor). And of course, the Turbo Cowboys with their rented e-MTB's out for a spin blasted past me too.

Well if I hadn't rode the Orbea back to back with the Cube I'd probably agree with you because obviously ECO would feel underpowered right after using higher powered modes, but both bikes in ECO ridden back to back at the same time at the same location the Orbea is definitely way more ridable in ECO.

 

[Akiwi]

I guess the question is, is it because the motor is giving more assist, or because the bike has more drag.

 

[RipGroove]

I guess the question is, is it because the motor is giving more assist, or because the bike has more drag.

Yep that's what it boils down to, which is why I've booked in for a firmware check to make sure it has the 85nm update applied to kind of rule that out. My Cube does have some draggy looking tyres on it (Michelin Wilds) and the Orbea has Maxxis Minions and the Cube has a bit more suspension travel.

 

[RipGroove]

That said though, I can kind of already rule out drag because both bikes felt the same in all other modes, it was just ECO where there was a big difference.

 

[Mikerb]

The lower the power setting the higher the cadence needs to be. In addition different tyres have more or less drag and certainly 29 wheels have less rolling resistance than 27.5. Tyre pressures...even a couple of PSI make a massive difference to drag. Then there is the different kinematics of various bike designs that impacts on pedalling efficiency. Finally the rear shock settings can add to loss of pedalling efficiency.
I know you said EMTB felt the same whereas ECO on your bike felt weaker but a lower power setting will accentuate all the variables I listed here............or put another way, a higher power setting like EMTB will help to mask them.
If you want ECO to feel more powerful, and extend battery range, stiffen up your rear shock, run higher tyre pressures.......................or buy a 29er trail bike

 

[golfatha]

I had the old bosch on a cube and pretty much never used eco and I can see it being the same on my new mondraker with the 750 bosch

Here's my usage so far.

View attachment 81652

Tour on road, emtb for most stuff, turbo for climbs I cannot do with my weak legs and spirit.

I wonder if it's worth modification within the flow app of eco to make me wanna use it more but to be honest I'm well happy with emtb mode.

This one is mine I run eco and switched off quite a bit I like what it’s doing to my fitness levels